CR and Level Adjustment

[Iituem]

When working out templates for creatures, does anybody know of some good ways to work out what an appropriate CR adjustment and Level Adjustment would be? Do please respond, as I have been having some difficulties adjusting homebrew templates to suitable LAs.

[magic8BALL]

I know about every +2 bonus to abilities (once you add them all up) is roughly a +1 to LA, given that these are not the only things the template has. And extra +1 if there is a real good advantage of the template (or a series of other smaller advantages) or an extra +2 if everyone would want it.

About...

[Darkshade]

i gotta say that that system only really seems to work for 1-4 level LAs after that its not very accurate, i mean, sure your getting lots of stuff for the 11 levels it takes to be a troll including the +5 LA but who wouldn't rather be an 11th level wizard? or Barbarian? or any PC calss or even PrC? when you start giving up more then 2 or 3 levels the value of the additional levels traded off changes.

[icke]

i gotta say that that system only really seems to work for 1-4 level LAs after that its not very accurate, i mean, sure your getting lots of stuff for the 11 levels it takes to be a troll including the +5 LA but who wouldn't rather be an 11th level wizard? or Barbarian? or any PC calss or even PrC? when you start giving up more then 2 or 3 levels the value of the additional levels traded off changes.

Be careful, this is only true for casters!

Iituem: I have no general guideline to level adjustments, if I have to assign one I look up other creatures and cross-check ability bonuses and other goodies, then use the level adjustment that appears to be most appropriate for the situation. Just one thing: USE COMMON SENSE.

[Fax Celestis]

Check the "Guide to Homebrewing" thread at the top of the page.

[Iituem]

Certainly guides for CR statting up there (not so sure about adjustments) but nothing on LA beyond a suggestion to 'wing it'. I daresay the best way will be to get a 5th level fighter, template him up, then compare him to everything from a 5th level to 10th level fighter in terms of 'awesomeness' (preferably using more strict criteria than that) and figure out whereabouts it ends up equal. Thanks!

[Darkshade]

Be careful, this is only true for casters!

Iituem: I have no general guideline to level adjustments, if I have to assign one I look up other creatures and cross-check ability bonuses and other goodies, then use the level adjustment that appears to be most appropriate for the situation. Just one thing: USE COMMON SENSE.


not true, just because a fighter only gets bonus feats every 2 levels doesnt mean his power level doesnt get far greater of 6 levels then say 2, the extra 4 levels equals 4 points of B.A.B., often an additional attack, and those feats... when you start taking a lot of feats that work together you get a sort of synergy, especially when you take chain feats or feats with lots of prerequisites and thats assuming you dont prestige class, when you go from being 2 levels behind for a prestige class to being 6 levels behind the difference is far greater per level, the kinds of unique abilites you miss out on tend to be quite powerful, would you rather play a Troll 1st level Barbarian or a Human 7th level barbarian/ 5th level Frenzied Berserker?

[icke]

not true, just because a fighter only gets bonus feats every 2 levels doesnt mean his power level doesnt get far greater of 6 levels then say 2, the extra 4 levels equals 4 points of B.A.B., often an additional attack, and those feats... when you start taking a lot of feats that work together you get a sort of synergy, especially when you take chain feats or feats with lots of prerequisites and thats assuming you dont prestige class, when you go from being 2 levels behind for a prestige class to being 6 levels behind the difference is far greater per level, the kinds of unique abilites you miss out on tend to be quite powerful, would you rather play a Troll 1st level Barbarian or a Human 7th level barbarian/ 5th level Frenzied Berserker?

Here You mix two things: level adjustment and racial hit dice. While I agree that most racial hit dice aren't worth lagging behind Your characters class level, many creatures that need level adjustments are fully worth it for fighter-types. The Half-Dragon template is a good example: the fighter misses three points of BAB and two feats, but gains eight points of strength(fully negating the BAB loss, except for secondary attacks), four points of AC, resistances and immunities and other goodies most classes cannot even provide.

[Mewtarthio]

The best way is to keep increasing LA until you figure you've gone way too far, then start decreasing until it seems worth it again. But only when it's "worth it" in the sense of "well, I suppose it's a decent trade-off..."; it's easier to just lower someone's ECL by 1 if you find the LA was overestimated than it is to correct LA underestimation.

[icke]

The best way is to keep increasing LA until you figure you've gone way too far, then start decreasing until it seems worth it again. But only when it's "worth it" in the sense of "well, I suppose it's a decent trade-off..."; it's easier to just lower someone's ECL by 1 if you find the LA was overestimated than it is to correct LA underestimation.

That is a good way to do it, but you usually end up with too high LA's. I have not yet found an algorithm to calculate level adjustment
1) in a way that makes sense
and 2) in a way that reproduces the level adjustments given in the monster manual.