PDA

View Full Version : A forbidden love Paladin/Erylium!



MobiusHero
2014-01-11, 07:50 AM
So I am currently playing an Aasimar Paladin, Chosen of Iomedae. My group are currently running Rise of the Runelords, and while reading about it i accedently stumbled upon some spoilers. (I was looking for a good picture of Nalia) I learned about Erylium and how the encounter is supposed to play out. While thinking about the encounter i thought it would be fun for my Wis. 7 pally to try and redeem the creature, as i have at least tried to talk my way out of almost every combat scenario we have been in.

While looking through feats and abilities and whatnot to find easy ways of capture and redemption, i stumbled across the True Love story feat and immediately thought the idea was just too perfect! I really dont know if the whole "love at first sight" thing could work given the situation, or if it would be a mystical unexplainable loveslap to the facemeat!

My problem becomes, how could I capture her without killing her and without letting her escape and without letting her kill everyone with her evil witch magic once she is captured and proceed down the road to redemption as described in CoP?

We have a Dwarf Fighter and a Gnome Wizard, (we might end up with a Halfling Cleric and a Goblin Rouge as well) our group tends to not gain money very quickly as just about every DM we game with is very sparring with the monetary loot. My character has the Heavenborn, Halo, and Exalted Resistance alternate traits.

Bigbeefie
2014-01-11, 09:07 AM
Are you talking about the Quasit from book 1? If so you should know full well a Chaotic evil outsider is darn near irredeemable and is put there to be smited back to hell.

First and foremost Rise of the Runelords is a extremely heavy combat Campaign with few chances to redeem the evil people as most fight to the death and give no chance to even talk to them. Once you reach book 3+ everything will flat out try and kill you because they are nonredeemable evil.

I remember our paladin tried to start out like this but after his first 2 deaths he quickly stopped and started killing everything that glowed evil. I'm glad he went from lawful stupid to lawful useful.

There is campaigns for redeeming your enemies and in Rise of the runelords I believe there is only like 2 people in the entire campaign who are close to being redeemable and they are in books 1 and 2. And they are not evil outsiders who almost 99.99% of the time are irredeemable.

For RoTRL O recommend focusing on combat for all the players involved. As far as money if your DM is following the book you shouldn't do too bad on loot at all. Tho in later books the Wizard will feel blessed and cursed...first blessed by all the wizard drops...then cursed cause he picked a stupid small race and will have to re-size all his gear drops to small which usually takes more gold or some DMs make you sell the item for 50% the Market value then re-buy the right sized gear at 100% cost as to screw you.

AMFV
2014-01-11, 09:18 AM
Are you talking about the Quasit from book 1? If so you should know full well a Chaotic evil outsider is darn near irredeemable and is put there to be smited back to hell.

First and foremost Rise of the Runelords is a extremely heavy combat Campaign with few chances to redeem the evil people as most fight to the death and give no chance to even talk to them. Once you reach book 3+ everything will flat out try and kill you because they are nonredeemable evil.

I remember our paladin tried to start out like this but after his first 2 deaths he quickly stopped and started killing everything that glowed evil. I'm glad he went from lawful stupid to lawful useful.

That would be stupid good, not Lawful Stupid.



There is campaigns for redeeming your enemies and in Rise of the runelords I believe there is only like 2 people in the entire campaign who are close to being redeemable and they are in books 1 and 2. And they are not evil outsiders who almost 99.99% of the time are irredeemable.

For RoTRL O recommend focusing on combat for all the players involved. As far as money if your DM is following the book you shouldn't do too bad on loot at all. Tho in later books the Wizard will feel blessed and cursed...first blessed by all the wizard drops...then cursed cause he picked a stupid small race and will have to re-size all his gear drops to small which usually takes more gold or some DMs make you sell the item for 50% the Market value then re-buy the right sized gear at 100% cost as to screw you.

I would certainly talk to the DM, see if he wants to incorporate more heavy themes, since redemption stories take a lot of work, although in a roleplay heavy game I can see it working out pretty well, or at least interestingly.

Bigbeefie
2014-01-11, 09:26 AM
That would be stupid good, not Lawful Stupid.



I would certainly talk to the DM, see if he wants to incorporate more heavy themes, since redemption stories take a lot of work, although in a roleplay heavy game I can see it working out pretty well, or at least interestingly.

Yeah talking to your GM would be the best bet. I just remember playing the campaign and for most the campaign your thrust rather quickly into the next part at the start of book 3. Not much downtime to help redeem others as your traveling trying to save the world in time before something big happens next.
Plenty of Roleplay in the campaign but I feel there is not enough time to redeem these people.

I actually only really consider the redeeming aspect of the game as lawful more then good. But that is just my take on it because as much as I sit and think about it why would a neutral good person care if they are being lawful members of society or a chaotic good person? What does the law mean to them...a whole lot of nothing. Thus I always see redeeming someone as a act of Lawfulness and good.

AMFV
2014-01-11, 09:33 AM
Yeah talking to your GM would be the best bet. I just remember playing the campaign and for most the campaign your thrust rather quickly into the next part at the start of book 3. Not much downtime to help redeem others as your traveling trying to save the world in time before something big happens next.
Plenty of Roleplay in the campaign but I feel there is not enough time to redeem these people.

I actually only really consider the redeeming aspect of the game as lawful more then good. But that is just my take on it because as much as I sit and think about it why would a neutral good person care if they are being lawful members of society or a chaotic good person? What does the law mean to them...a whole lot of nothing. Thus I always see redeeming someone as a act of Lawfulness and good.

But a chaotic good person would be more likely to overlook the unlawful things somebody might have done. It's not making them into a productive member of society (that would be lawful), it's convincing them not to be evil (which is good), as is forgiveness.

Bigbeefie
2014-01-11, 09:45 AM
But a chaotic good person would be more likely to overlook the unlawful things somebody might have done. It's not making them into a productive member of society (that would be lawful), it's convincing them not to be evil (which is good), as is forgiveness.

Even still my main point remains you CAN NOT redeem this CE outsider demon. I understand a 7 wisdom but that just playing rather dumb like your Intel is 7 as well. There are things that are considered irredeemable evil and a quasit demon is definitely on the list.

He might as well try and redeem those undead zombies a few rooms prior to this fight as well...Perhaps they might stop eating brains and praising Iomedae instead. perhaps they never saw it as evil but are quick to repent and turn from their wicked ways...

MobiusHero
2014-01-11, 09:46 AM
The way i tend to play my Paladin usually tends to be, if they surrender I accept, if they repent I redeem, if they refuse I send them to their final judgment. I was wanting to try and redeem this chaotic evil outsider because she is so completely out of line with my characters morals and alignment, he would find her abhorrent and immediately want to smite her. But that in and of itself is a dark mode of thinking, no one should be denied the chance for redemption.

Plus if I am able to convert her that is a super awesome win for team Good!:smalltongue:

We tend to have a fairly roleplay heavy group. Acting as you believe your character would, given his history and ideology, is nearly sacrosanct!

My Pally has Int. 10 Wis. 7 and Cha. 20 at 2nd level, he has a massive tendency to be Stupid Good. He doesn't think things through very often, instead immediately trying to do JUSTICE! (http://youtu.be/PbrCLejR_lE?t=8m36s)


He might as well try and redeem those undead zombies a few rooms prior to this fight as well...
If they were intelligent zombies I would probably try lol

AMFV
2014-01-11, 09:46 AM
Even still my main point remains you CAN NOT redeem this CE outsider demon. I understand a 7 wisdom but that just playing rather dumb like your Intel is 7 as well. There are things that are considered irredeemable evil and a quasit demon is definitely on the list.

He might as well try and redeem those undead zombies a few rooms prior to this fight as well...Perhaps they might stop eating brains and praising Iomedae instead. perhaps they never saw it as evil but are quick to repent and turn from their wicked ways...

You can redeem a demon... That's been done, for sure in 3.5, and very likely in Pathfinder, it's extremely rare and challenging, but its not completely impossible. Which is why I suggest talking to your DM.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20050824a

And there's on example redeemed Demon, admittedly from 3.5, but I think that it should be a good guideline for what you're trying to do.

MobiusHero
2014-01-11, 09:51 AM
Actually AMFV that link is surprisingly similar to my idea, the whole "I will redeem you because true love is more powerful than evil!" thing fits ever so nicely!

Bigbeefie
2014-01-11, 10:01 AM
You can redeem a demon... That's been done, for sure in 3.5, and very likely in Pathfinder, it's extremely rare and challenging, but its not completely impossible. Which is why I suggest talking to your DM.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fc/20050824a

And there's on example redeemed Demon, admittedly from 3.5, but I think that it should be a good guideline for what you're trying to do.

Yes 3.5 is a totally different game and multiverse...I understand the "backwards" compatibility but he is playing pathfinder and here are the rules for pathfinder on Alignment
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/alignment-description/additional-rules


Here is the paragraph on why I say this is near impossible:


This game assumes good and evil are definitive things. Evidence for this outlook can be found in the indicated good or evil monster subtypes, spells that detect good and evil, and spells that have the good or evil descriptor. Characters using spells with the evil descriptor should consider themselves to be committing minor acts of evil, though using spells to create undead is an even more grievous act of evil that requires atonement. Creatures with an evil subtype (generally outsiders) are creatures that are fundamentally evil: devils, daemons, and demons, for instance. Their redemption is rare, if it is even possible. They are evil to their very core, and commit evil acts perpetually and persistently. Mortals with an evil alignment, however, are different from these beings. In fact, having an evil alignment alone does not make one a super-villain or even require one to be thwarted or killed. The extent of a character's evil alignment might be a lesser evil, like selfishness, greed, or extreme vanity. Having these qualities might not even cause the character to detect as evil when subjected to detect evil, as creatures possessing 4 or fewer Hit Dice do not register to the spell (with the exception of clerics or other characters that radiate an aura).

There is 1 demon I know of in Wrath of the Rightous campaign that has turned from evil. BUT was well on the path to redemption years prior to the start of the campaign. She lost ALOT of her demon template for it and I am still playing the campaign to figure out what happens to her. But her redemption is not from PC but from the GOD Desna herself.

So yes SUPER rare.....but a minor CR 3 fight with a minor demon should not be looked at as just a chance to redeem something. Especially since the rules say its under extremely rare conditions can it even happen.

MobiusHero
2014-01-11, 10:04 AM
I believe an Aasimar Paladin NOT smiting a chaotic evil outsider and instead falling in love with said CE outsider counts as exceedingly rare...

Bigbeefie
2014-01-11, 10:06 AM
he has a massive tendency to be Stupid Good. He doesn't think things through very often,


If they were intelligent zombies I would probably try lol


Your gonna die a lot in this campaign if your DM is not pulling punches like the Campaign says not to do. This campaign is a player killer and I'm seeing a lot of death in your future.

zimmerwald1915
2014-01-11, 10:09 AM
So yes SUPER rare.....but a minor CR 3 fight with a minor demon should not be looked at as just a chance to redeem something.
Why? It's not terribly thematic to the AP as written, but the APs as written are tools with which GMs and players are meant to work, not holy texts from which no deviation may be permitted. Heck, it could even be argued that the struggle between sin and virtue is a theme of the AP, though RotRL tends to want players to be a little grayer than, say, WotR.

Bigbeefie
2014-01-11, 10:10 AM
I believe an Aasimar Paladin NOT smiting a chaotic evil outsider and instead falling in love with said CE outsider counts as exceedingly rare...

You also know the creature moral in the DM's guide (which i'm reading atm in another window) says she will fight to the death, escape at low HP, only to come back and continue to try and kill the PCs after her fast healing has healed her back up?

MobiusHero
2014-01-11, 10:29 AM
While yes I would try to grant salvation to any intelligent evil beings, I am not completely moronic, if it becomes obvious that nothing can be done my character is fully capable of smiting evil right alongside my fighter friend.

I just think it is really interesting to have the Aasimar Paladin fall in love with this tiny demon witch who he, by all rights, should loath the very fabric of.

Quasit are fragments of souls and it is entirely possible that the person who he was meant to fall in love with died and this fragment is all that's left of said soul. Who knows who Eryliums fragment originally belonged to.


In any case I still need a way to capture her in such a way as to not let her escape with ease and not be tossing her spells everywhere.

Hangwind
2014-01-11, 11:13 AM
Hey, if you want to go this route, I say go for it!

The real question though is one of roleplay: what characteristic of Erylium made your character fall in love with her? That is something that will define your character in many ways. Was it her power? Her stubborness? Some other trait? Because seriously, if I were your DM, I would kill your character if you went down the "she's so HAWT!" route. However, if you could roleplay it well, I would totally let you do that.

Bigbeefie
2014-01-11, 11:54 AM
what characteristic of Erylium made your character fall in love with her?

the PCs haven't a clue in the beginning as ....he shouldn't know about the fight...he found out through some other source....
2ndly in the campaign you don't know who or where she is....your group happens to stumble upon this room....
3rdly after finding the room you engage with some sin spawn creatures only to have this Demon join the fight after a round or 2. She does not speak any language you know but has tongues and telepathy via Touch. She flys so grabbing her is a little hard and talking to her is near impossible. She attacks without talking to the PCs. Her moral is to fight until her demise. But to escape at low hp to let fast healing heal her up for the next round. When most paladins trained in the temples of Iomedae met with hostility from a innate evil outsider would be to defend themselves and smite there foes. She is a Goddess who is currently at war with all demon kind.

Honestly meta gaming aside I don't see the opportunity he will get to try and redeem her unless he enters the room, Looks for her, chases her down, grapples her into submission, begs and pleads with her to stop and give love a chance.

But maybe his DM will allow it all for Role play sake. But IDK he cant really ask his DM without explaining he knows about upcoming fight he shouldn't know anything about.

MobiusHero
2014-01-11, 12:25 PM
the PCs haven't a clue in the beginning as ....he shouldn't know about the fight...he found out through some other source....
Correct we do not know about it beforehand, not sure why that would make any difference


2ndly in the campaign you don't know who or where she is....your group happens to stumble upon this room....
We have a tendency to explore a lot, again dont know why this makes a difference.


3rdly after finding the room you engage with some sin spawn creatures only to have this Demon join the fight after a round or 2... She flys so grabbing her is a little hard and talking to her is near impossible. She attacks without talking to the PCs...

most of this doesnt change anything, just knock her out and capture her.


...She does not speak any language you know...
I actually know Abyssal, Celestial and Common.


...Her moral is to fight until her demise. But to escape at low hp to let fast healing heal her up for the next round....
while yes her morale says she will run away if her hp gets low, even if she does turn invisible i have detect evil. i could find her immediately.


When most paladins trained in the temples of Iomedae met with hostility from a innate evil outsider would be to defend themselves and smite there foes. She is a Goddess who is currently at war with all demon kind.
Very true, but most paladins aren't in love with said evil outsider.



Honestly meta gaming aside I don't see the opportunity he will get to try and redeem her unless he enters the room, Looks for her, chases her down, grapples her into submission, begs and pleads with her to stop and give love a chance.
Chase her down, knock her out, capture her, talk about our feels. lol


But maybe his DM will allow it all for Role play sake. But IDK he cant really ask his DM without explaining he knows about upcoming fight he shouldn't know anything about.
He will most likely allow it. I can ask him quite easily as he is very unlikely to get upset if i know about a single kinda unimportant battle nebulously existing sometime in our future.

I dont really see many problems except for how to subdue her for the long term... and not killing her in the initial capture... our fighter is... well... fighty....

AMFV
2014-01-11, 12:27 PM
the PCs haven't a clue in the beginning as ....he shouldn't know about the fight...he found out through some other source....
2ndly in the campaign you don't know who or where she is....your group happens to stumble upon this room....
3rdly after finding the room you engage with some sin spawn creatures only to have this Demon join the fight after a round or 2. She does not speak any language you know but has tongues and telepathy via Touch. She flys so grabbing her is a little hard and talking to her is near impossible. She attacks without talking to the PCs. Her moral is to fight until her demise. But to escape at low hp to let fast healing heal her up for the next round. When most paladins trained in the temples of Iomedae met with hostility from a innate evil outsider would be to defend themselves and smite there foes. She is a Goddess who is currently at war with all demon kind.

And redeeming a demon is even better in a war than killing one, because now you're turning their own weapons against them. As far as the knowledge thing, different groups have differing ideas about how much metagaming is allowed, and it's possible that he read sections of the story before he was in this group, I sometimes read modules to see if I want to run them or for fun or that sort of thing.



Honestly meta gaming aside I don't see the opportunity he will get to try and redeem her unless he enters the room, Looks for her, chases her down, grapples her into submission, begs and pleads with her to stop and give love a chance.

But maybe his DM will allow it all for Role play sake. But IDK he cant really ask his DM without explaining he knows about upcoming fight he shouldn't know anything about.

Well if he talks about his DM, maybe the DM could work something out, or include a different option if he can't get that particular option to work, I mean if the character wants to have a forbidden love story with themes of redemption, then the DM knowing that will help him work it in, even if it's not this particular fight.

MobiusHero
2014-01-11, 12:28 PM
...what characteristic of Erylium made your character fall in love with her?...

Actually I was thinking that her fragment of her previous masters soul belonged to my true love from a past life and is now resonating with my soul mysteriously... or something! lol i still have to work that bit out a little more!:smalltongue:

AMFV
2014-01-11, 12:38 PM
Actually I was thinking that her fragment of her previous masters soul belonged to my true love from a past life and is now resonating with my soul mysteriously... or something! lol i still have to work that bit out a little more!:smalltongue:

Well what aspect of it appeals to you, narratively. Is it the idea of the love being forbidden, the moral quandary created by it, the redemption aspect, the idea that true love could conquer all (a part of the redemption aspect). I think that knowing this might help, and it might help you frame this for your DM, if he knows what you want (as a player) out of this that will help him help you work towards the best narrative solution.

MobiusHero
2014-01-11, 12:55 PM
The overall unlikelyness is funny to think about in the beginning. But the moral dilemma, the forbidden aspect (especially if it is requited) and the power of love (http://youtu.be/-NMph943tsw?t=1m1s) all make the idea so much more enthralling. It makes the journey of redemption a much more powerful and emotional one. It would, in my opinion enrich the character development over the course of the story. While all this epic world shaking stuff is going on, their is an emotional tale filled with self sacrifice and petty judgements and desperate attempts at redemption, all in the name of love.

How can people not find that cool?

I am not being nearly as eloquent as i prefer to be, i am quite sleepy, it is 1pm here and i have only gotten about 3 hours of sleep since yesterday...

Bigbeefie
2014-01-11, 01:03 PM
I actually know Abyssal, Celestial and Common.

Didn't know with a Int of 10 and Modifier of 0 you got more then Common and Celestial.


Languages: Aasimars begin play speaking Common and Celestial. Aasimars with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, and Sylvan.

I also was figuring you got 2 skills per level unless you Favored Class any skill points. But then you would have to Cross Class Linguistics skill as a paladins skill set is:


The paladin's class skills are Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (nobility) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

But if did spend 2 skill points on Lingusitics just to take abyssal language to RP this I give you applause cause your going at it rather Hard.

MobiusHero
2014-01-11, 01:27 PM
I actually took Abyssal originally so that I could speak to any outsider

AMFV
2014-01-11, 01:28 PM
Didn't know with a Int of 10 and Modifier of 0 you got more then Common and Celestial.



I also was figuring you got 2 skills per level unless you Favored Class any skill points. But then you would have to Cross Class Linguistics skill as a paladins skill set is:



But if did spend 2 skill points on Lingusitics just to take abyssal language to RP this I give you applause cause your going at it rather Hard.


What's wrong with working towards a character goal, particularly a rare and difficult one, that sort of thing should be applauded, not derided, he's choosing to take an extremely difficult goal and work towards it.


The overall unlikelyness is funny to think about in the beginning. But the moral dilemma, the forbidden aspect (especially if it is requited) and the power of love (http://youtu.be/-NMph943tsw?t=1m1s) all make the idea so much more enthralling. It makes the journey of redemption a much more powerful and emotional one. It would, in my opinion enrich the character development over the course of the story. While all this epic world shaking stuff is going on, their is an emotional tale filled with self sacrifice and petty judgements and desperate attempts at redemption, all in the name of love.

How can people not find that cool?

I am not being nearly as eloquent as i prefer to be, i am quite sleepy, it is 1pm here and i have only gotten about 3 hours of sleep since yesterday...


Definitely talk to your DM about this, it's certainly a workable idea, but you don't want it to be suddenly dropped on him mid-game.

Bigbeefie
2014-01-11, 01:41 PM
What's wrong with working towards a character goal, particularly a rare and difficult one, that sort of thing should be applauded, not derided, he's choosing to take an extremely difficult goal and work towards it.


I'm just wondering if he broke the rules and gave himself a free language not included in his Race/class or if his level 2 paladin actually took Linguistics and has been working towards this idea since rolling up his character.

Why not get your love story from something more realistic like redeeming Nualia who is a Aasimar herself and was mentally abused enough to turn to evil. Now she is completely misguided and could be more easily redeemed and quicker than a Demon Quasit.

AMFV
2014-01-11, 01:58 PM
I'm just wondering if he broke the rules and gave himself a free language not included in his Race/class or if his level 2 paladin actually took Linguistics and has been working towards this idea since rolling up his character.

Why not get your love story from something more realistic like redeeming Nualia who is a Aasimar herself and was mentally abused enough to turn to evil. Now she is completely misguided and could be more easily redeemed and quicker than a Demon Quasit.

Because he's interested in the demon for the love story, redeeming somebody who was once good and then turned to evil is a different type of story altogether than the reverse. It's different in tone and offers many distinctly different story possibilities.

MobiusHero
2014-01-11, 09:38 PM
I'm just wondering if he broke the rules and gave himself a free language not included in his Race/class or if his level 2 paladin actually took Linguistics and has been working towards this idea since rolling up his character.
Taking the language had nothing to do with this, i didn;t even know she existed until this morning.


Why not get your love story from something more realistic like redeeming Nualia who is a Aasimar herself and was mentally abused enough to turn to evil. Now she is completely misguided and could be more easily redeemed and quicker than a Demon Quasit.

Well that is a slightly racist way of thinking... they are both Aasimars lets make them be together!

Plus that makes for a much less challenging love story, they would only have to overcome the odd stares if they were in sandpoint, and even then only for a while, her natural alignment is good so it wouldn't even be that hard to change her, and they would be physically compatible as they are the same size, they wouldn't even really have to overcome their own disgust at each other. The love story with Erylium is WAY more interesting!


Regardless of the flavor of things, I still need a way to capture her and keep her captured and contained!

Vanitas
2014-01-11, 10:08 PM
In RPGs, "very rarely" means "until a PC tries it".

MobiusHero
2014-01-11, 11:53 PM
Hahaha good point! NPCs are just dumb! lol


but seriously, about that capture method...

Sith_Happens
2014-01-12, 01:49 AM
Just don't let your sudden desire to redeem a demon completely derail the campaign. Or do let it (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?58227-Tales-of-Wyre).:smallcool: See you in a week.

MobiusHero
2014-01-12, 05:16 AM
That is awesome stuff right there! This campaign is SOO much fun to read!

But i do still need assistance with the whole capture thing, that was the original purpose of this tread. I didn't intend to derail into whether it should or shouldn't be done. (though that was fun too) I just need the means of capture.

Hangwind
2014-01-12, 06:23 AM
Well, your main problem is stopping her without killing her. For this, I would suggest grappling her and dealing non-lethal damage until she passes out. This would be best to do when she is already heavily damaged and drained of her most dangerous abilities, which, as long as your DM follows the guidelines, will be obvious. If she runs, that's your chance!

Of course, you have to deal with the fact that she can fly as well. Frankly, I suggest having your wizard deal with that or using some form of magical item. Though, what you are going to do about the next day, when she has all her abilities back? No idea.

MobiusHero
2014-01-12, 07:44 AM
Well i personally could potentially have a spell resistance of 11 so that helps me a little, but it doesn't help anything else... now if i could get some sort of antimagic cage... and have a reason for having it... this is going to be really challenging... if it helps i currently have a piddling 175gp. between the ENTIRE group we have maybe 500gp...

AMFV
2014-01-12, 08:10 AM
Well i personally could potentially have a spell resistance of 11 so that helps me a little, but it doesn't help anything else... now if i could get some sort of antimagic cage... and have a reason for having it... this is going to be really challenging... if it helps i currently have a piddling 175gp. between the ENTIRE group we have maybe 500gp...

Definitely talk to your DM about this... capturing her is probably not your best option here, and is more than a little creepy in my opinion, just talk to her, start appealing to her conscience, her former humanity, most of all spare her. Then the DM can have her come back, maybe having felt the affects of your actions more profoundly until there's finally a spark there, but capturing somebody till they love you sounds an awful lot like Stockholm Syndrome to me.

MobiusHero
2014-01-12, 08:50 AM
Well now that i think about it, there really isn't any reason she couldn't be given the true love feat as well, at the very least it would cause enough emotional duress that she might be more cooperative...

Swift
2015-04-10, 05:23 PM
Sorry for the thread necromancy - found this using Google when looking for Erylium. She's a cutie! :) I do wonder, why does her metal miniature look totaly different? Was there an early version of this Rise of the Runelords adventure with different illustrations?

To the thread starter - frankly, I have had the same thoughts as you about her, and how she could be redeemed. But I agree with the others who say capturing her is not the way to go.
My paladin is the "talk first, give everyone a chance to change" kind, because... well, I made him for the Baldur's Gate game first, and he's your "Worf"-style paladin. That is, he became one while growing up with a scholar as a father and books for friends, so he has an idealised idea on what a paladin is supposed to be like, not the grim reality. Even facing truly monstrous foes could not break his spirit, and the revelation of his unholy origin only supported his belief that everyone deserves a second chance - after all, if the son of the God of Murder can become a paladin, anything is possible. :)

About Erylium - googling led me to a thread on Paizo's forum on how people treat this encounter, and... due to her damage reduction and most parties not managing to even hit her, or not bringing ranged weapons or cold iron, they usually resolve this by rather inventively horrible ways of murdering the poor gal. Some jump-tackled her and beat her to death, other lassoed her and drowned her in the Sinwell, and one halfling cleric even pushed his holy silver symbol down her throat to stop her from casting spells or polymorphing. :smalleek: She is a 2-feet-tall tiny thing, in a grapple she always lose and then damage reduction or not, it won't end well for her.
So it's likely your party will capture her the same way, and that's when your paladin should intervene. Dunno about you, but drowning or trampling a captured, restrained enemy? That's pretty EVIL in my book. So you should argue with your party to spare her life. Take her weapon, interrogate her about the Sinwell maybe. You can even make her swear on Lamashtu to leave the place and never return if you'll let her go, being Chaotic Evil she's probably gonna swear to anything and never keep her word.

That said - while Erylium is 1000 year old (give or take a year), she spent this time mostly alone with mindless zombies for company. She had plenty of time to think on things, such as her purpose (or lack of it). Especially, she is not experienced much despite her age. For her, Paladins were the "I smite thee evil thing!" boogeymen to be feared, at least that's what she was told by other demons. So you advocating for sparing her life is something that should shake her, and the apparent adoration you showed really make her curious and surprised. You should have her tail the party from now on, invisibly or polymorphed maybe into a wolf that seems to follow your party, staying away but watching your camp. On the surface she is spying on you for Nualia, in truth, she is mostly interested in your Paladin, and as she sees you handle encounters with evil beings like the goblins with restraint, or seeing you have mercy on captured enemies maybe, she'll start to wonder. Especially she'll be intrigued by seeing how well you work together with the party and by any friendship she observes, something she probably never experienced. You can maybe even have her try to communicate with your paladin, never revealing her location or who she is (maybe pretending she is a sprite) through telepathy.

Eventually you should set up an encounter, before you get to Thistletop, that Nualia will send a goblin ambush party (maybe with the Bugbear hero in the lead) to kill your PCs in their sleep, knowing your location through Erylium. She'll be torn over her duty and how she feels indepted to repay the mercy you showed her in kind... and will eventually use telepathy to awaken you without revealing who she is. This is such a moral decision that goes against her evil nature that it should make her change to Chaotic Neutral. After this though, Nualia will suspect her, and order her back on some false account, then have her imprisoned and tortured.
Once you get to Thistletop you can find her in a cold iron cage, probably battered and broken from torture. Freeing her, she will aid your party against her former pupil, not just out of revenge but to help you. From here on, you can incorporate her into the party - obviously you cannot be seen travelling with a demon, so she'd spend the day polymorphed into maybe your pet wolf. She could even gain levels as a witch and get XP, though given what you'll face later in the adventures (ogres) it's best if she hangs back in battle.

About the love thing - even if you feel that way, it's best to reveal this slowly. Remember, for a paladin that is still anathema, to love a demon... Not unheard of, especially not if the demon is redeemed (see Arueshale) but it's not something you should shock her with, but to slowly reveal it to her during conversation. She might not feel the same in the beginning but her genuine need for companionship will ensure she will want to consider you as a friend, at least. And you can go on from there. :)

Later on your DM could add some challenges for you and Erylium specifically - demons are not taking turncoats lightly, they set a bad example. You can expect reprisals from them. And she should slowly start to understand the wrongness of her former life (though, as I said, not much wrong she committed since she spent 1000 years in a catacomb). Quasits all start out as familiars, too - so you could work out some backstory for her past with her master, the guy who becomes the Scribbler. Maybe even add an extra layer to her by showing via flashbacks how she was abused by him, and how she has to learn trusting you the hard way.

Don't forget also, she spent thousands of years basically alone with mindless undead and a varguille as company - you can give her quirks like talking to herself, or talking in the third person about herself, etc. She snapped out of the maddness when the smuggler found her, but still, it's maddness she could retreat into when she cannot deal with the changes in her alignment and her confusion about morality.