Incantatrix question

[questionmark693]

So at the eight level of Incantatrix, I get that nifty class feature about reduced metamagic cost. It mentions not bringing a bonus to less than zero if the bonus is already there, but what if i use quicken spell and invisible spell. Does that make the total bonus +2 or +3?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I think you're looking at the wrong version of Incantatrix. The 3.0 version gets that at 8th level, the current 3.5 version gets it at 10th.

Regarding your question, that ability applies to each metamagic feat separately. Quicken Spell gets reduce by one to a +3, and Invisible Spell can't get reduced because it's already below +1. The total metamagic cost of a Quickened Invisible spell would be +3 for that character.

[questionmark693]

Sweet, thanks for the answer. Also, I'm looking at the version in Magic of Faerun, so yeah, 3.0. Where is the 3.5 version at?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Sweet, thanks for the answer. Also, I'm looking at the version in Magic of Faerun, so yeah, 3.0. Where is the 3.5 version at?

Player's Guide to Faerun, and it's considerably better.

[questionmark693]

Awesome :) Also, what are good schools to ban and why?

[eggynack]

If you're a generalist, then either enchantment or evocation. If you're a divination specialist, then both enchantment and evocation. If you're a normal specialist, then add either necromancy or illusion to the ban list. If you're a focused specialist, add them both.

Edit: As for reasons, enchantment is a very narrow school with a whole host of problems associated with it (mind affecting, will saves all the time, everything is SoL's, and protection from X). evocation has some decent spells, like resilient sphere, contingency, and wind wall, but those decent spells are generally worth less than what necromancy or illusion offers. Necromancy suffers from the narrowness issue, lacking the easy immunity issue of enchantment to some extent, but not possessing enough unique abilities to carry it over higher power schools of magic. Illusion has a ton of unique effects, like invisibility, mirror image, and relevant if you're banning evocation, shadow evocation, but many of its abilities are stopped by alternative vision modes. Besides that, by that point you're heading into unbannable territory, with conjuration, transmutation, abjuration, and divination all being schools that you just can't or shouldn't ban. It's a strong school, but not as strong as those.

[RedMage125]

I played an Incantatrix in a game that ran up to 18th just last year.

I had a General Specialist (Races of the Wild) Sun Elf Wizard. When I had to take a prohibited school for the Prestige Class, I considered Necromancy, but some of the high-level Necromancy spells I was looking at were too attractive. I chose Illusion instead. Note that any Illusion spells already known before you take your 1st level of Incantatrix (such as, say, Invisibility), you are still able to cast. You just can't get any new ones.

Incantatrix is a VERY powerful class. AT level 16, I used both of my 2/day Instant Metamagic abilities, along with an 8th level, a 7th level, and 2 6th levels spells in 2 rounds to reduce an EL 19 Encounter to one, badly wounded creature.

[questionmark693]

Wait...so if (hypothetically) I were to put all of the spells into my collection of spellbooks, I know all of the spells. So it wouldn't matter which school I ban?

[eggynack]

The PGtF version of incantatrix lacks any such clause allowing you to keep spells you've already learned. Also, while necromancy has some strong high level options (magic jar and astral projection, mostly), illusion's high level options are probably even better. Both simulacrum and ice assassin show up on the illusion list, as do the aforementioned shadow spells, and miss chance is always a good thing. Enchantment is mostly just mind rape, while evocation is stuff like force cage and resilient sphere. It's not all that strictly necessary, in other words.

Edit: Despite that change, the PGtF version is still better. metamagic effect is just that good.

[questionmark693]

I agree that it's better, even with that change. But it also doesn't say you can no longer cast spells from the prohibited school, and in every other instance of a banned school from a prc that I'm aware of, you keep the spells you already know. Can the argument then be made that it doesn't force you to drop your spells known from that school?

[eggynack]

I agree that it's better, even with that change. But it also doesn't say you can no longer cast spells from the prohibited school, and in every other instance of a banned school from a prc that I'm aware of, you keep the spells you already know. Can the argument then be made that it doesn't force you to drop your spells known from that school?
It doesn't really need to say that you can't cast spells from the prohibited school, because that's what a prohibited school means. You can't cast them, and you can't even cast them from wands or scrolls. You may still know those spells, whatever that means, but that fact is pretty much meaningless. That specific text from incantatrix was overwriting the general rule for specialization, and now it's not, so you can't use the banned school at all.

[Kraken]

I'd actually say it's, from a strict RAW perspective, unclear what an incantatrix does with a banned school. It's especially muddled because an incantatrix doesn't actually become a specialist, so it's not clear what parts of the specialization text applies to them.


At 1st level, the incantatrix gives up a school of magic so as to focus more on the remaining schools. She must choose a school of magic other than abjuration or divination as a prohibited school. This prohibited school is in addition to any others already chosen due to school specialization. Thus, a specialized wizard taking this prestige class has three prohibited schools instead of two.


If desired, a wizard may specialize in one school of magic (see below). Specialization allows a wizard to cast extra spells from her chosen school, but she then never learns to cast spells from some other schools. Essentially, the wizard gains exceptional mastery over a single school by neglecting the study of other schools. A specialist wizard can prepare one additional spell of her specialty school per spell level each day. She also gains a +2 bonus on Spellcraft checks to learn the spells of her chosen school (see Adding Spells to a Wizard’s Spellbook, page 178). The wizard must choose whether to specialize and, if she does so, choose her specialty at 1st level. At this time, she must also give up two other schools of magic (unless she chooses to specialize in divination; see below), which become her prohibited schools. For instance, if she chooses to specialize in conjuration, she might decide to give up enchantment and necromancy, or evocation and transmutation. A wizard can never give up divination to fulfill this requirement. Spells of the prohibited school or schools are not available to the wizard, and she can’t even cast such spells from scrolls or fire them from wands. She may not change either her specialization or her prohibited schools later.

Upon taking a level of incantatrix, a character might be directly in conflict with the specialization rules already by knowing a spell from what will become a banned school. Further, it says they take their specialty at first level, and at that time they choose their banned schools. It makes no mention anywhere about what to do if you already know spells from that banned school. To give a strictly academic example, this could occur without incantatrix by being a first level fighter with the magical training feat, then subsequently taking a level of wizard and then needing to banned schools. You get the vague wording describing them as "not available" to the wizard. Because the "not available" wording isn't well defined, it's entirely reasonable to give that text equal standing to bit about how they give up schools by neglecting to study. If it's something they've already studied, I wouldn't say it's concrete that it goes away.

Edit:

You may still know those spells, whatever that means, but that fact is pretty much meaningless.
Not necessarily relevant to what's going on here, but as a tidbit, a known spell is defined in the PHB's glossary as anything in the wizard's spellbook.