How would one build a Thri-Kreen "Lancer"?

[Elxir_Breauer]

As the title suggests, I'm looking for help building a Thri-Kreen "Lancer" (or Knight, a la Final Fantasy).

This character would basically be utilizing Jumps and related movement to hop around the battlefield round by round, preferably doing heavy damage each round, bonus points for wielding one or more Lances or Halberds(really, any weapon that would deal extra damage on a Charge or after moving).

The choice of race is entirely a flavor bit, but non-negotiable. Basically I want to jump around the battlefield landing on or near an opponent, dealing as much damage as I can reliably deal to that target each time I land. Pouncing would be awesome if possible.

[Urpriest]

I'd use elements of this (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1659301).

[Invader]

I'd do it without using thri keen :smalltongue:

[Snowbluff]

You would take the Battle Jump feat and take advantage of that huge jump modifier that way.

Use:
Power Attack feat
Leap Attack Feat
Shock Trooper feat
Valorous Weapon

I would make a Barbarian1 (for pounce), and then go Duskblade13 for channeling on a full attack/pounce. Multiweapon fight with some lances/spears, each enhanced with Greater Magic Weapon while channeling a Born of Three Thunders Shocking Grasp (if I had leftover feats)

[D4rkh0rus]

You would take the Battle Jump feat and take advantage of that huge jump modifier that way.

Use:
Power Attack feat
Leap Attack Feat
Shock Trooper feat
Valorous Weapon

I would make a Barbarian1 (for pounce), and then go Duskblade13 for channeling on a full attack/pounce. Multiweapon fight with some lances/spears, each enhanced with Greater Magic Weapon while channeling a Born of Three Thunders Shocking Grasp (if I had leftover feats)

For flavour add in 5 levels of Exemplar and max jump. You can then use jump to count as your diplomacy check in an area.. yep.

Anyone Say dragoon?

[Snowbluff]

For flavour add in 5 levels of Exemplar and max jump. You can then use jump to count as your diplomacy check in an area.. yep. I am not sure exemplar would be worth a level. Thri Kreen have an innate +30 to jump. Warblade would be better for Leaping Dragon Stance, which gives a +10 and all of your jumps would be considered running jumps.


Anyone Say dragoon?

That's what the title means. :smallwink:

[Elxir_Breauer]

Anyone Say dragoon?

That's what I was trying for, aye. Got the two titles mixed up in my head. :smallredface:
And yes, I was planning on at least one level of Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian for the pounce, not sure if any more levels of it would be worth it, not likely so far.
Would anyone recommend Scout for the Skirmish bonuses, since I'd basically be jumping from one target to the next, most likely more than 10 feet per jump? All the other suggestions (aside from the snarky no-Thri-Kreen comment of course, lol) seem pretty good so far, thank you guys!

[Grayson01]

Scout sounds like an obvious choice with Improved Skirm, Lion Tot Barb is a must. as long as you're getting pounce and Battle Jump. 2 levels of Barb might not be bad so you can get Imp. Uncanny Dodge at 4th.

[Elxir_Breauer]

One thing is bugging me about Battle Jump, according to the text of the feat, I'd have to start up a tree or on a ledge or something similar to get the bonus from it. While that wouldn't necessarily be that hard to pull off in a dungeon with high ceilings or in a wooded environment, making use of it in an open area would be problematic as worded. I would have to set up some kind of Immovable Rod platform or the like to jump up onto for the bonus, and that could get dicey quick without spending inordinate amounts of money and/or skill points on Balance... Especially before 10th level or so. If anyone has any better ideas on how to pull that off in the early game, I may leave Battle Jump for later on, if at all. I play in mainly lower level games, usually starting around level 4-6, so trying to pull the shenanigans required wouldn't be all that feasible, unfortunately.

[Dread_Head]

Use the non psionic version of Thri-Kreen from Shining South as they only have +1LA.

Dipping Barbarian for pounce is good, then go standard Swift Hunter build (Scout 4 / Ranger X) With some Warblade mixed in for Tiger Claw manoeuvres. Sudden Leap and Leaping Dragon Stance being particularly good choices.

In terms of weapon, you mentioned you wanted to use a lance or halberd. Well AEG p109 has the Halberd of Vaulting +30 untyped to jump and vaulting charge which doubles damage when charging if you make a jump at least 5ft high during the charge. Or strip the ability off the item (comes to 12,000gp once you account for the +2 halberd its normally attached too) and apply it to the weapon of your choice.

Also remember the +4 to jump from having a land speed of 40ft.

[Flickerdart]

Savage Species has rules for multi-handed weapons. Weapons wielded with more than 2 hands receive +0.5 STR to damage per extra hand so employed. The weapon needs to be created with this purpose in mind though, but I don't think the book mentions that there is any cost associated with this.

[Urpriest]

One thing is bugging me about Battle Jump, according to the text of the feat, I'd have to start up a tree or on a ledge or something similar to get the bonus from it. While that wouldn't necessarily be that hard to pull off in a dungeon with high ceilings or in a wooded environment, making use of it in an open area would be problematic as worded. I would have to set up some kind of Immovable Rod platform or the like to jump up onto for the bonus, and that could get dicey quick without spending inordinate amounts of money and/or skill points on Balance... Especially before 10th level or so. If anyone has any better ideas on how to pull that off in the early game, I may leave Battle Jump for later on, if at all. I play in mainly lower level games, usually starting around level 4-6, so trying to pull the shenanigans required wouldn't be all that feasible, unfortunately.

Battle Jump is weird. Your interpretation is a viable one, but there are many others. If you want to use it, I'd suggest looking up a thread discussing the various possible meanings, and present it to your DM. Otherwise, Leap Attack should be more than enough for your purposes.

As for Scout levels, you may end up dealing "enough" damage already with your base trick, depending on how much you optimize it, so a few more d6s may be less useful than picking up some defensive capabilities.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

There are a few Tiger Claw maneuvers that deal with jumping on/over your opponent, so maybe consider using Warblade. Don't forget that half of those racial HD add to your initiator level.

Definitely get Power Attack and Leap Attack. I'd include one or two Barbarian levels with Lion Spirit for Pounce, and use Wolf Totem if you go for two levels. Consider one Ranger level so you can use a Wand of Rhino's Rush, and use this variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) to get Fast Movement. Maybe even trade that Fast Movement for Lion Spirit if your DM will let you chain alternate class features and you don't want to use Barbarian.

Something like Nonpsionic Thri-Kreen LA +1 (bought off (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm))/ Monstrous Humanoid 2/ Lion Spirit Whirling Frenzy Barbarian 1/ Wildshape Ranger 1/ Warblade 16, use the White Raven charge maneuvers with Tiger Claw jump maneuvers and Mongoose boosts, and fill in the rest with Iron Heart.

[Elxir_Breauer]

Battle Jump is indeed weird, I think I'll just leave it out for now. My groups tend toward mid- to low-op according to what I've read on here, so absolutely wrecking everything like this, especially with an already sub-optimal build, should be pretty awesome. As for chaining ACFs, I don't think it would be much of a problem with a couple of the people that DM for our group, but I'm trying to keep the absolute cheese to a minimum. Mostly trying to stay within RAI, as far as we can interpret it based on group consensus. Thanks for all the awesome ideas everyone!

[Elxir_Breauer]

OK, after some feat and class wrangling, I've come to the conclusion that 2 levels of Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian won't be necessary (as good as Uncanny Dodge is), just the one for the Pounce. On the other hand, the character is so feat-starved as to require 2 levels of Fighter to attain Leap Attack and Shock Trooper in time to meet the 6th level requirement, assuming LA buy-off on the +1 LA.

Here's the build I've come up with so far, with the only assumptions on stats being a minimum 13 Strength, 8 Intelligence and 2 Flaws(Shaky and Murky-eyed most likely):

Feats:

RHD 1: Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, TBD(possibly Improved Sunder for access later to Combat Brute)
RHD 2: Deflect Arrows (racial bonus feat)
Barb 1: Improved Sunder, Rage, Spirit Lion Totem(ACF)
Ftr 1: Dungeoncrasher(ACF)
Ftr 2: Leap Attack
WBld 1: Shock Trooper, Weapon Aptitude, Battle Clarity

Skills: (Ranks only)

Jump 9, others to be determined when stats are assigned.

Any help further optimizing this, while keeping the (non-psionic)Thri-Kreen would be appreciated. Keep in mind, this is assuming a low- to mid-op group, with a maximum starting ECL of 6, or enough XP to achieve such. I will also assume the Multi-classing XP penalties will be in effect, further reducing the effectiveness of this build without heavy use of PrC's.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Dungeoncrasher replaces your Fighter 2 feat, not your Fighter 1 feat. Leap Attack cannot be taken as a Fighter bonus feat, but Shock Trooper can. You don't really need Dungeoncrasher unless you're big enough to get the feat Knock-Back in Races of Stone.

The second Barbarian level is usually for Wolf Totem (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wolfTotemClassFeatures ) to get Improved Trip, which then enables you to get Knock-Down (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knockDown).

I'd recommend taking Multiweapon Fighting and Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting, and use a two-handed 'main hand' weapon and use your remaining two hands to wield a one-handed 'offhand' weapon. You'll only apply half your Str bonus to damage on the offhand weapon, but you'll still get the full two-handed Power Attack damage to it. With Oversize Two-Weapon fighting you'll only take a -2 to hit with every attack. Note that Improved Multiweapon Fighting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedMultiweaponFighting) requires BAB +9, and Greater Multiweapon Fighting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#greaterMultiweaponFighting) requires BAB +15. Since the Multiweapon Fighting feats replace the equivalent level of Two-Weapon Fighting for anyone with more than two arms, you can get Gloves of the Balanced Hand (MIC) and they should give you Improved Multiweapon Fighting instead of Improved Two-Weapon Fighting.

I'd switch it to the following:
1. Monstrous Humanoid 1, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Multiweapon Fighting
2. Monstrous Humanoid 2, Deflect Arrows
3. Lion Spirit Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ) Barbarian 1, Extra Rage
4. Fighter 1, Oversize Two-Weapon Fighting
5. Warblade 1
6. Fighter 2, Leap Attack, Shock Trooper
7+. Warblade 2+

[Vaz]

PsyWar 2 or Ardent 2 with Practised Manifester lets you use Expansion to become Huge sized which can work with Knockdown.

[Elxir_Breauer]

The only problem with the Improved and Greater Multi-weapon Fighting feats is that they're from Savage Species (trying to keep to strictly 3.5 where possible), and I'm not sure if the DM for the game I'd be running this character in would allow them. However, for all intents and purposes related to feat prereqs, Multi-weapon Fighting IS Two-Weapon Fighting for 3+ armed races, thus qualifying for Improved and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, as far as I can tell. I hadn't looked at the Dungeoncrasher for a while before posting that setup, my bad there. :smallfrown: The Wolf Totem is for tripping like mad, right? That could be extremely useful for this build... :smallsmile: If I CAN swing the Improved/Greater Multis, the pouncing will be INSANE, which is of course part of the goal. :smallbiggrin: In any event, solid advice from what I can tell. I just wish I could get that Leaping Dragon Stance in this build, probably could if I'd gone with say, Human or the like, oh well. Might have to make an alternate as a Human, or for S&Gs possibly a Strongheart Halfling, lol.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Multiweapon Fighting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#multiweaponFighting) is in the 3.5 Monster Manual, as well as the SRD. The Improved and Greater versions are also in the 3.5 SRD, all of those are perfectly valid for use in a 3.5 game.

[Elxir_Breauer]

Oh my... That puts a whole new spin on things. I might have to make a higher level version of this for later, possibly using 4 weapons and throwing my Bite in when i can get away with it...