Making base building/upgrading worthwhile.

[RPGaddict28]

So, my PC's are going to get a house as quest reward, more than likely next session. It's going to be a small-ish house, but on a big plot of land. It's probably going to have 3 bedrooms, a kitchen, a living room, and a small basement. They already have a maidservant(they saves a sorcerer and she decided to work for them) and I know they have some plans to upgrade the place, but how do I make it work well, and feel rewarding?

[GM.Casper]

It would be their refuge, their home base. In time they could add to it, make it a profit making enterprise, grow a household of NPCs under their protections...
Then have their fief threatened in small ways, such a local noble making demands, goblin riders stealing cattle, etc.

[UrsielHauke]

I don't know how your game falls on the combat-focused v. roleplay-focused spectrum (each provides different options), but I would simply suggest making sure it's an asset to the characters.

In my main group, we do a lot of roleplay, and even get into slice-of-life stuff, which (depending on your preference) can be a lot of fun, and some sort of base of operations can provide a medium for that. After putting so much effort into fixing the place up, etc, the characters can get really invested in what they've created, as well as grow closer as a group.

Alternatively, you can have the house become a valuable tool, if characters need to hole up/lay low. Having to fortify up a house against some sort of external threat and then playing out the defense of that ground can be a really fun little arc, and can make for some interesting combat scenarios.

Of course, when it becomes a valuable asset to the players, and they grow attached to it for whatever reason, that's when you can have it turn into a liability as well. Not to the degree where it would be abandoned, to the point where you have the characters invested in protecting what's theirs; then, you can use this as a hook to lead into other things.

[mucat]

Depends on the players and on their characters, I suppose.

In most games I've played in, the players get very attached to any permanent base of operations they have (whether a stationary home or a mobile base such as an airship.) Encourage them to customize the place -- install libraries, labs, chapels, gardens, and let the characters put specific touches on these things that reflect their characters. If the PCs do not regard one another as family, or even if they do, the building you describe will probably be too small to serve as home to the whole bunch...so take advantage of all that land, and give them time and resources to build more structures.

Other group of players might value the place only if it gives them a game-mechanical bonus. For example, perhaps crafters can receive twice the usual masterwork bonuses when working in their own space which they have set up exactly the way they want it. Clerics will have the whole place hallowed to their god, wizards will reap the advantage of their customized library and lab, and so on.

Either way, I would let that sorceress they're employing be a capable and resourceful "battle butler" type who can supervise more mundane staff, handle day-to-day operations, and deal with most trouble without help from her bosses. Let them know after the fact when she has dealt with some problem...so that a bigger crisis hits and she DOES call on them for help, it feels like a major threat.

[Seerow]

How large scale are you looking at? Are you expecting it to remain a normal house, but a go-to place for the player's to store stuff, rest, and research (something like the Bat Cave)? Or are you expecting them to expand this greatly, turning this little 3 bedroom house into a fort or castle sitting on this piece of land?


Honestly, in either case I'd say it comes down to a simple thing: If the players thing it will be awesome, let them run with it. My best experience with a home base involved a group of characters building a castle in the middle of BFE and within a few months stunning basically everyone as they turned the middle of nowhere into a thriving center of commerce. The DM never really expected us to take it as far as we did (we even went so far as modeling our castle/city in minecraft, paying special attention to keep everything to-scale), but it was a great deal of fun for us despite not having any mechanical impact on the characters one way or another (we reinvested every penny earned back into further improvements).

[kieza]

I think it's easiest to make casters interested in base-building, especially if they're into spell research or item creation. Having someplace secure to keep their library and workshop is a pretty big deal for them.

If the party doesn't have a researching/crafting caster, you can instead have an NPC caster show up looking for someplace to settle down and practice his art. Offer the players a discount on items if they buy from him. You can also have other NPCs show up who are useful. Give them the opportunity to train up some low-level guards who can do things like provide a diversion or keep watch at night when they're adventuring.

A good way to introduce these "headquarters NPCs" is to have them show up first and do something useful during an adventure--for example, maybe an apprentice wizard shows up in a dungeon, and he knows a couple of utility spells that your wizard doesn't, and they turn out to be useful. Then at the end of the adventure, he mentions that he was looking for a patron, and he's willing to do some research and share the spells he finds with the party wizard.

[DrBurr]

A free place to stay which is always clean is reward enough if a game is centered around a single location, imagine all the money they'll save by not having to sleep in an inn. Beyond that its really up to your group to make it more worth while, if they're already planning upgrades then it sounds like a good match.

I haven't really run a game with a base of operations before except on accident when the group decided they wanted to turn a giant rotting pumpkin into an inn, was quite amusing how they went out to negotiate with a mason and carpenter to build a basement and supports.

Though now that I've gotten the idea for a Flanders like neighbor, kind of makes me wish my current game wasn't a globetrotting adventure.

[TheCountAlucard]

So, the PCs saved a sorceress, and she decided to work for them…
As their maid? :smallconfused:

Was this the PCs' idea, or something? :smallconfused:

[Seerow]

So, the PCs saved a sorceress, and she decided to work for them…
As their maid? :smallconfused:

Was this the PCs' idea, or something? :smallconfused:

If it's a 1st level sorceress with spells known that looks something like this I could see it:
1st
-Unseen Servant
-Floating Disc

0th
-Prestidigitation
-Mending
-Light
-Open/Close



Edit: And now I'm curious how high of a level you could get before being forced to take a spell that is combat-useful.

[RPGaddict28]

So, the PCs saved a sorceress, and she decided to work for them…
As their maid? :smallconfused:

Was this the PCs' idea, or something? :smallconfused:

It was a second level sorcerer who was captured by a 4th level fighter, and lived in the woods. PC saves her, she needed a place, and the bard offered her an idea of being a maid

[Slipperychicken]

Edit: And now I'm curious how high of a level you could get before being forced to take a spell that is combat-useful.

She could just solve all her encounters non-violently. I know it's not easy, but it's possible.

[Seerow]

She could just solve all her encounters non-violently. I know it's not easy, but it's possible.

I was going for no real non-violent encounter enders too.

Even so, I did flip through PHB and SpC, and came out with at least a half dozen spells of each spell level that would qualify. At some point (probably between level 6 and 8) she'd grow out of being a maid and be more of your general groundskeeper, with spells for warding, upgrading, or expanding the base. Also acting as a general status breaker (ie break enchantment type things), and facilitating communication (mostly for letting the party know if a ward gets tripped and they need to defend the base). But you can totally get away with never actually being capable of defending yourself, even as a level 20 sorcerer.

[Red Fel]

I will echo the above sentiment that players tend to become attached to any permanent base of operations you grant them, because "theirs is theirs."

If they don't, however, might I suggest showing them the benefits of permanent settlement? Not all cities start as cities, you know.

Your PCs are potent heroes, and have already rescued a relatively potent individual (2nd level with class levels is already more potent than a large swath of the population). Assuming the house isn't completely in the middle of nowhere, people are going to find out that this is the place where the mighty heroes live when they're not out fighting injustice in the world.

People are attracted to power. Perhaps they want the heroes to do them favors. Perhaps they want protection. Perhaps they just want to shower the heroes with awe and gratitude. Whatever the reason, people will come.

But your PCs won't be there when they do. They go off adventuring, don't they? So these visitors will have to wait. Some will leave, disappointed. But others won't. They'll stay. They'll set up tent villages.

Then the days will become weeks, and weeks months. Some of the tents become houses. The houses become a community, with the Sorceress - as the PCs' representative - the community leader. Walls are raised to protect the community from threat. Craftsmen begin to ply their trade, seeing profit to be had amongst the gathered folk. Farms crop up (pun intended), lumberjacks gather wood, and carpenters begin building.

At some point, the heroes return to find that their little house has become the seat of a small town. A town full of people eager to meet them, know them, follow them. They will have access to their own craftsmen, food supply, raw materials. Any money they pour into the community makes it more successful, more prosperous, as people flock to this new town - soon city - of opportunities. And as the city prospers, the heroes have more reason to invest in it and be present. Arcane scholars will arrive, eager to share spells with the heroes. A martial training academy will open, to study from the mighty warriors and train the town guard. Traders will flock to the city, to peddle rare and exotic magical goods.

Basically, you start by having a tent city grow around their house. If they invest in it, each time they return they will see increasing rewards. In time, it will be self-sufficient and provide them with almost anything they could need, from magical goods and supplies, to taxes, to followers.

[GungHo]

It needs to be functional for the players to be interested. While a place to stay is great, a place that works for you is even better. Money sinks cap player wealth, but people see that stuff for what it is and get bothered unless they see that they're getting something out of it.

Maybe as they "stock up" various "rooms", it makes certain tasks easier. Alchemical lab helps boost alchemy, library knowledge checks, smithy smithing checks, etc.

Reputation is a big deal in my games as well... and whether or not the players like it, they're going to be judged based on their attentiveness as landlords. The better kept and better outfitted your home base, whether it's a castle, a keep, or a guild, the better treatment you get, especially when dealing with dignitaries/nobility. And, if you let it sit abandoned, they're going to be dismissive or offended. Or, if it's particularly prime real estate, it may be either re-distributed to a better landlord by the crown or otherwise siezed, and then the players would need to figure out how or if they'll ever see their investment again.

As other folks noted, these places also attract people with minds of their own, and you end up not only owning a keep on the borderlands, but a whole town on the borderlands, and like it or not, you're going to be expected to take care of those people. So, you grow beyond just figuring out who needs to be a butler, but also who needs to run the town guard, how people are being fed, and how to settle disputes. It can quickly be its own game and become more than just downtime, if people want that.

Of course, your players could hate the idea of becoming the mayors of Ye Olde SimTowne and you could just leave it as a comfy keep. But, the option is always there to grow it.

[Knaight]

I wouldn't be too worried about this. The players have taken steps towards having a center of activities, and clearly care about it. It matters to the players, and as such you don't need to take steps specifically to make it matter. However, precisely because it matters it's worth focusing on.

It sounds like you are playing D&D or a similar game, which leaves an obvious option: Bulky, cumbersome stuff that works much better as a stationary object. Said stuff could easily be magical, but non magical tools of some sort are also good. A library is a solid tool for a number of knowledge checks, and lugging one around is somewhat impractical, even with portable holes and the like.

[Seerow]

I wouldn't be too worried about this. The players have taken steps towards having a center of activities, and clearly care about it. It matters to the players, and as such you don't need to take steps specifically to make it matter. However, precisely because it matters it's worth focusing on.

It sounds like you are playing D&D or a similar game, which leaves an obvious option: Bulky, cumbersome stuff that works much better as a stationary object. Said stuff could easily be magical, but non magical tools of some sort are also good. A library is a solid tool for a number of knowledge checks, and lugging one around is somewhat impractical, even with portable holes and the like.

In the vein of magical things, I really like the wondrous architecture from the Stronghold Builder's guide. Basically you get to make custom magic items at a steep discount (compared to normal rules for custom item creation) in exchange for them being something that isn't feasible to take adventuring. This can give you a ton of options for general quality of life, base defense, and just generally fun stuff. This is where you get your Fireball cannons, your command room giving you the ability to telepathically speak with anyone in the area, your beds that cast restoration on those sleeping in it, your magical elevators and/or teleport machines, your walls that anyone with the command word can simply walk through, and so on. Creative players can make even more interesting things. If you take any spell in the game and can't find a way to make it work in some way with your home base, you're probably not trying hard enough.

[russdm]

If a city starts getting made up, have the sorceress hire some bards to tell stories about the heroes and have her get some wrong or make some up that embarrass them. Also, if the PCs spend a lot of time away, have the sorceress run the place in their absence. It would put more interest in the players in staying home a bit more. Running the place would be more than their henchgirl could handle and she would want help.

Adventurers or parties that get towns should be solving problems for those places rather than wandering off to the next country over. They need to invest effort in managing their town's affairs or they could come back only to find out they were kicked out due to not being there.

And a town like the one they are getting would be a prize worthy to others to steal from the party. The land isn't being used much, so the local lord decides to award part away to someone else. Unless you run the world as not functioning in absentia from the players, or basically if the players aren't present the world doesn't work, then you run into the problem of maintaining this valuable gift. There are certainly better choices than a group of heroes to give plots of lands too and since they (the players) show no interest in doing anything with it, they should lose it. (This is a general statement, not one that applies to your players, more of a possibility).

Kings usually seized lands being mismanaged and awarded to those who could do better jobs of managing land. Something to always consider and record.

[JHShadon]

Dinosaur stables. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0726.html)

[Dundee15]

Start with something small but useful if managed correctly. My group started with a tavern in the middle of nowhere, that got a few travelers from time to time. It provided a small amount of income for the party. After helping a nearby town we "upgraded" by moving the survivors to the tavern, where they built a small town around it and a traveling Merchant moved in to sell to the townspeople. Later we helped a blacksmith and he moved in, giving us access to a skilled craftsman and a source of equipment as long as we had the materials to make it. Turns out having a skilled blacksmith helped the town flourish, further growing the population and improving the overall town's quality of life.

We plan on adding a wizard and alchemist to the town. We've also had to fight off raiding parties.

[Slipperychicken]

Start with something small but useful if managed correctly. My group started with a tavern in the middle of nowhere, that got a few travelers from time to time. It provided a small amount of income for the party. After helping a nearby town we "upgraded" by moving the survivors to the tavern, where they built a small town around it and a traveling Merchant moved in to sell to the townspeople. Later we helped a blacksmith and he moved in, giving us access to a skilled craftsman and a source of equipment as long as we had the materials to make it. Turns out having a skilled blacksmith helped the town flourish, further growing the population and improving the overall town's quality of life.

We plan on adding a wizard and alchemist to the town. We've also had to fight off raiding parties.

So it's basically the Homestead quests from Assassins Creed 3?

[GybeMark]

So it's basically the Homestead quests from Assassins Creed 3?

:smallsmile: I was thinking along the same lines

In this humble gamer's opinion, the "AC3" way is the "wrong" way to do a homestead. "Neverwinter Nights 2" on the other hand did a lot of things "right" about the castle (despite the other flaws in the game).

Getting back to "what works in RPGs" I agree that "it depends on what your players want", but what I've found over the years, it all comes down to "make the PCs feel attached to the place emotionally, rather than simply a line on an inventory sheet".

Good idea: allow PCs to upgrade their stronghold
Bad idea: force PCs to upgrade their stronghold (you can't sleep there unless you invest 1000gp on an addition for bedrooms)

Good idea: allow PCs to earn rewards for upgrades
Bad idea: make the rewards "you now have more monthly income to spend on your stronghold"

Good idea: allow the PCs to make it "their own"
Bad idea: force the players to submit blueprints, paint swatches and go on side quests to find "the night table that would go just perfectly with these curtains"

Good idea: use the house for an adventure setting (some dangerous magic item found in the wine cellar, or the past owner's diary suggests the place is not what it seems...)
Bad idea: use the house for every adventure setting

Good idea: have NPCs react positively to the stronghold (an imposing house gives the PCs bonuses to diplomacy checks vs locals, or a lavish house impresses a traveling merchant who offers business deals to the PCs)
Bad idea: have NPCs react negatively to the stronghold, especially when it's being established (the citizen militia who respected the PCs when they were homeless now holds the PCs in disdain because they have 8' ceilings instead of 9')

[skyth]

You might want to check out the Pathfinder Downtime rules from Ultimate Campaign to give you ideas about how to handle this.

[JHShadon]

You might want to check out the Pathfinder Downtime rules from Ultimate Campaign to give you ideas about how to handle this.

This is a link to it. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/downtime)