Spells on objects?

[171akup]

I am creating a campaign and need rulings on objects emanating spells like a round stone ball that emanates an anti magic field and other spells. Also I want them to be permanent. :smallbiggrin:

[Kelb_Panthera]

You're talking about custom magic items, I think.

There's a table in chapter 7 of the DMG that details how to price such things.

Generally, if a spell effect that does not provide a numerical bonus is to be continually produced or imparted by a piece of equipment the price is the minimum caster level used to produce the spell times the level of the spell times 2000gp. The minimum caster level is typically twice the spell's level minus one.

This is then subject to one or more multipliers. If the spell's normal duration is measured in rounds, multiply the price by 4. If it's usually measured in minutes, multiply by 2. If it's normally measured at 10 minutes per level, multiply by 1.5. If it's normally measured by hours, multiply by 1. Finally, if its duration is normally a day or more multiply by 0.5. If the spell effect applies only to a specific target, the bearer of the item, it must occupy one of the body's magic item slots or multiply the cost by 2.

If you're simply talking about permanently placing spell effects on objects there's usually some type of specific trickery involved.

[FleshrakerAbuse]

If you want spells to work as to permanently be placed, I suggest just using the Permanency with whatever spell you're trying.

If not, I suggest a complex trap from Dungeonscape, which has some rules for area based spells that will automatically reset and recast to last forever. Custom is probably your best bet.

[Slipperychicken]

Continuous AMF item costs 132,000gp. This is both from the custom item rules and BoED's Antimagic Shackles.

Permanency costs XP. You can houserule/substitute (like Pathfinder did) that you can instead pay 5x the xp amount in gold for it.

[Pickford]

I am creating a campaign and need rulings on objects emanating spells like a round stone ball that emanates an anti magic field and other spells. Also I want them to be permanent.

You, as the DM want to create an object that emanates a spell?
Good news: You don't need a ruling, nor do you have to justify it in any way. You're the DM. Everything that you're not just pulling from a book (and even things that do if you so modify them) works however you say it does.

If you really want some sort of versimilitude for explaining why a dirt poor character has a magic item that would bankrupt most nobles to create...have it be something they acquired, that was made long ago. Nothing requires all magic items to have been made just last week.

A player wants to build something? Then I'd second Kelb_Panthera in pointing them towards the DMG chapter on custom magic items for pricing et al.

[Slipperychicken]

You, as the DM want to create an object that emanates a spell?
Good news: You don't need a ruling, nor do you have to justify it in any way. You're the DM. Everything that you're not just pulling from a book (and even things that do if you so modify them) works however you say it does.


I think it's best to look into the rules for what you want first. The custom item guidelines (although they certainly aren't perfect) help GMs gauge how powerful custom items are, whether they're balanced, and at what point players should have access to them.

[Kelb_Panthera]

You, as the DM want to create an object that emanates a spell?
Good news: You don't need a ruling, nor do you have to justify it in any way. You're the DM. Everything that you're not just pulling from a book (and even things that do if you so modify them) works however you say it does.

Just pointing out that this is an old-school attitude that doesn't necessarily fly with all groups. Only you know if your group will let you get away with this.

FWIW, I'd be more than a little perturbed by it. IMO, there's no reason to ignore the system when there's a way to do almost anything you could conceive of within it already and ignoring the rules that exist can have myriad unintended and unpredictable consequences.

[Pickford]

Just pointing out that this is an old-school attitude that doesn't necessarily fly with all groups. Only you know if your group will let you get away with this.

FWIW, I'd be more than a little perturbed by it. IMO, there's no reason to ignore the system when there's a way to do almost anything you could conceive of within it already and ignoring the rules that exist can have myriad unintended and unpredictable consequences.

So, if I as the DM am describing a room, and there's a stone orb in there that's (you later learn) emitting an AMF, you're going to quiz me on how I made it? :smallconfused:

[unseenmage]

If you want the Stone Ball of Magic to be easily movable and carted off by the players then that's a Custom Magic Item (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm).

If not then it's a Lair Ward (Draconomicon) or Wondrous Architecture (Stronghold Builder's Guidebook). Which are basically half price Custom Magic Items. because they're immobile, or very difficult to move.

[Kelb_Panthera]

So, if I as the DM am describing a room, and there's a stone orb in there that's (you later learn) emitting an AMF, you're going to quiz me on how I made it? :smallconfused:

Not on the spot, but if I slap it in a lead lined box and carry it away I'm going to want to know how much it costs and how it works for my own purposes at some point.

What? You don't carry around a few lead lined boxes to store questionable magic items?

[unseenmage]

So, if I as the DM am describing a room, and there's a stone orb in there that's (you later learn) emitting an AMF, you're going to quiz me on how I made it? :smallconfused:

Sometimes the players know more about the game than the DMs. And that's okay. Sometimes the DMs want to know what the rules are before they break them, and that's okay too.

Players who feel that they sat down to a game and that the game was being ignored in favor of any one person's preferences have a tendency to stop playing at that game. Even when that person is the DM.
(This has been my experience and is in no way intended as insult or disparage against people who might act otherwise.)

[Pickford]

Not on the spot, but if I slap it in a lead lined box and carry it away I'm going to want to know how much it costs and how it works for my own purposes at some point.

What? You don't carry around a few lead lined boxes to store questionable magic items?

That's when I tell you it's attached to the floor. :)

edit: You know, a stone ball carved on a stone platform.

[Kelb_Panthera]

That's when I tell you it's attached to the floor. :)

Then I either smash it or have someone in the party more capable smash it. If it's not loot and it's causing the kind of irritation that AMF's cause it's just something that needs to be destroyed. I don't need to know how it works if it doesn't work anymore.

[Pickford]

Then I either smash it or have someone in the party more capable smash it. If it's not loot and it's causing the kind of irritation that AMF's cause it's just something that needs to be destroyed. I don't need to know how it works if it doesn't work anymore.

It's a trap! A stone door slams shut behind you, and the room begins to fill with sand from above! :smalleek:

edit: Oh the humanity!

[TuggyNE]

Sometimes the DMs want to know what the rules are before they break them, and that's okay too.

This. So much this. This is one of the keystones of my attitude toward the rules: I want to know what RAW really is, so that I can then fix it as needed with minimal adjustments.

Simply skipping past the rules misses the point of having them in the first place.

[Kelb_Panthera]

It's a trap! A stone door slams shut behind you, and the room begins to fill with sand from above! :smalleek:

edit: Oh the humanity!

Not a problem. There are immensely more ways to get out of that situation magically than non-magically and I make a habit of carrying explosive packs to breach walls and doors anyway. I plant a 20 pounder on the door and blow it out. Not many stone doors can take 97 points of damage after hardness and remain intact.

[Slipperychicken]

Not a problem. There are immensely more ways to get out of that situation magically than non-magically and I make a habit of carrying explosive packs to breach walls and doors anyway. I plant a 20 pounder on the door and blow it out. Not many stone doors can take 97 points of damage after hardness and remain intact.

Come on, guys, you're both missing the point by a mile.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Come on, guys, you're both missing the point by a mile.

Tangents happen.

I made my point in the first link of that chain. Choosing to ignore the rules as a DM can rub some people the wrong way. There's really nothing else to say on the matter. I'm not saying those people are necessarily right or wrong or that they're playing the game better, just that they exist.

That I happen to be one of them is an unrelated tangent.

[Pickford]

Not a problem. There are immensely more ways to get out of that situation magically than non-magically and I make a habit of carrying explosive packs to breach walls and doors anyway. I plant a 20 pounder on the door and blow it out. Not many stone doors can take 97 points of damage after hardness and remain intact.

Congratulations, you're free!

And as a bonus you didn't ask how I made the room. Back to the adventure?

[Xelbiuj]

How exactly is ignoring cost, "breaking the rules"?

As long as it's not done to an absurd amount, a stone orb with no known origin doesn't exactly need a manual for reproduction. Could be a gift from a god.

As for what it's worth, only what someone is willing to pay.

An item that emits an indiscriminate (anti)magical aura?
"No thanks!" says the poor peasant who couldn't afford it anyways.
The merchant in the town where such an item is illegal anyways.
and the lord that doesn't want to piss off any magic users that might be threatened by the item.

[Drachasor]

How exactly is ignoring cost, "breaking the rules"?

As long as it's not done to an absurd amount, a stone orb with no known origin doesn't exactly need a manual for reproduction. Could be a gift from a god.

As for what it's worth, only what someone is willing to pay.

An item that emits an indiscriminate (anti)magical aura?
"No thanks!" says the poor peasant who couldn't afford it anyways.
The merchant in the town where such an item is illegal anyways.
and the lord that doesn't want to piss off any magic users that might be threatened by the item.

RAW has the cost being equal to half of what it is worth. So it does matter.

If you feel the need to make selling it, figuring out how it was made, etc, etc into a wild goose chase with no end then that's a strategy that will undoubtedly annoy players. Far better to just say how it is made can't be figured out -- unless I am forgetting rules from somewhere that allow you to ascertain this with an unknown magical item.

In any case, ignoring the cost is breaking the rules if you can loot the item in the sense that it will break WBL. There are a lot of fun things even a caster can do with an orb that emits an AMF. Ridiculously powerful fun things.

[Pickford]

RAW has the cost being equal to half of what it is worth. So it does matter.

If you feel the need to make selling it, figuring out how it was made, etc, etc into a wild goose chase with no end then that's a strategy that will undoubtedly annoy players. Far better to just say how it is made can't be figured out -- unless I am forgetting rules from somewhere that allow you to ascertain this with an unknown magical item.

In any case, ignoring the cost is breaking the rules if you can loot the item in the sense that it will break WBL. There are a lot of fun things even a caster can do with an orb that emits an AMF. Ridiculously powerful fun things.

The PHB does have something to say on this:


If you want to buy something not described in this chapter, the general rule is that a character can buy anything that costs as much as 3,000 gp

The price for anything emitting a constant spell effect exceeds 3k, so RAW players should not be buying it.

[Kelb_Panthera]

The PHB does have something to say on this:



The price for anything emitting a constant spell effect exceeds 3k, so RAW players should not be buying it.

This is untrue.

The very next sentence says:


Buying a more expensive item, such as a +2 longsword, means going to a big city where rare items are for sale, making a deal with someone who makes or can provide the item, or paying a premium price to a merchant who makes special effort to get what the character wants.