OOTS #937 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Nightsbridge]

Julio scoundrel, the most interesting man in the stickverse!

[ZestG]

I don't always check for updates...
But when I do, they've just arrived!

I love Blackwing.

[Deathkeeper]

I don't always like memes in the comics I read, but when they're funny without needing to recognize them (which this is) I think it's ok. Thanks for making me laugh in the morning, Giant.

[Iago]

Love the Most Interesting Man in the Multiverse commercial!

[Coliumbos]

*sigh*

Suddenly I remember why I love you, Julio. Never change.

[Copperdragon]

Ok, Xykon has a headstart of 8 days. If he finds it within two days there won't be many monsters left in Serini's Tomb... less xp for our heroes... but probably also less death... :smalleek:

It seems it's Wrapping Up Time. Wonder if there's going to be talk with Durkon...

[jamiah93]

It's about time Julio got his Interesting Man poster haha

[Leviting]

Julio Scoundrel, the most interesting man in the world.
and what does bandana mean by flying in the header of "Get The Heck Out Of Here"?

[Seto]

Hey, I was going through the archives and then... Bam ! New comic :smallbiggrin:

Ok, so they are staying on the Mechane. And I noted that Elan omits to mention not only that Tarquin and Laurin came, but also that he played any role at all in the fight. Another sign of character growth : a book earlier he'd have told everything to Roy without even thinking. Apparently Haley influences his behavior as well as he does hers.

[Morty]

:elan: "Everything's fine. It was nothing Haley and V couldn't handle."

In your face, Tarquin. Right in your face.

[Silkspinner]

Hey, the multiverse is at stake. The least the mechane could do is make it there in a few hours.

[Dilvish]

Potions of Cure Light Wounds - Taste great and less filling!

[zimmerwald1915]

What a strangely placid update. Also, the ioun stone remains Blackwing's shiny.

[BeerMug Paladin]

The density of great jokes in here is just amazing, as usual.

[Silvos4422]

Awesome advertisement!

But who in their right mind would want to be just in the nick of time for a root canal?

[FullStop]

Huzzah, uninterrupted denouement!

[Deathmachine]

Must... succeed... will save versus terrible hilarious pun at the end...

[Caustic Soda]

I think I like the product endorsement joke best among those on the page, even though I haven o idea what it's supposed to refer to.


what does bandana mean by flying in the header of "Get The Heck Out Of Here"?

Presumably that he just picked a direction at random and flew that way, rather than anything specific.

[Leviting]

Awesome advertisement!

But who in their right mind would want to be just in the nick of time for a root canal?

could I say that lack of sense was the root of his problem?
/awefulpun

[ZestG]

and what does bandana mean by flying in the header of "Get The Heck Out Of Here"?

It means that she's flying as far away from danger as she possibly can but doesn't really care about where they end up to.

[CoffeeIncluded]

I don't always fall back asleep, but when I do, I wake up to an update!

Ok, not always. That was still hilarious though. And don't sorry Belkar, Durkula will get his spells back soon enough!

[The Pilgrim]

The mechanus travels at the speed of plot, nice. :smallsmile:

[silvadel]

The Mechane -- the genere savvy ship.

[Mando Knight]

Julio scoundrel, the most interesting man in the stickverse!

Stay thirsty, my friends.

[Living Oxymoron]

The mechanus travels at the speed of plot, nice. :smallsmile:

That was the funniest part in the strip. :smallbiggrin:

[SowZ]

Dear Julio,
Be careful not to fly into an inevitable crash scene.
Kthxbai

[Michaeler]

So the Mechane is a slacker airship? Never puts in the effort until it gets really important?

[Scifne]

V and Blackwing are adorable.

[Kish]

Awesome advertisement!

But who in their right mind would want to be just in the nick of time for a root canal?
Someone who didn't want to actually lose the tooth?

[Ewig Custos]

Awesome.
With the speed of plot I bet Order will arrive just in time for some gate-destroying.

[reaverb]

Is this the first meme reference in OOTS?

[Kish]

So, they're going past dwarven lands, unless something forces them to land before they reach their destination.

[HandofShadows]

A ship that travels at the speed of plot and Julio endorsment contracts. :smallbiggrin:

[Mutant Sheep]

Horray more Julio! I'm sad Julio doesn't have a specific brand though. I mean, "I don't always drink potions. But when i do, i drink (Dwarven Sounding beer-potion)". Who is he endorsing with "potion"? *nit picked funny joke*

[Wou]

I though they'd be looking for Haleys father before going for the gate. Huh.

[dtilque]

Julio Scoundrel, the most interesting man in the world.
and what does bandana mean by flying in the header of "Get The Heck Out Of Here"?

Heading, not header. The heading is the direction the ship is going. Normally it's a compass direction, not a vague phrase.


I think I like the product endorsement joke best among those on the page, even though I haven o idea what it's supposed to refer to.

this should help (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U18VkI0uDxE)

[Lordchoculla]

New comic is up.

Excellent, thanks!

[DreadPirateDB]

Julio Scoundrel, the most interesting man in the world.
and what does bandana mean by flying in the header of "Get The Heck Out Of Here"?

It's "heading". A ship's heading is the direction it is going. The helmsman picked a direction least likely to lead back into the trouble.

[Edit: Julio'ed]

[zimmerwald1915]

Horray more Julio! I'm sad Julio doesn't have a specific brand though. I mean, "I don't always drink potions. But when i do, i drink (Dwarven Sounding beer-potion)". Who is he endorsing with "potion"? *nit picked funny joke*
Eve & Larry's Alchemy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0135.html), of course! What better way to increase traffic than with an expensive celebrity endorsement campaign?

[Anarion]

Julio Scoundrel is the best thing to ever happen to this comic. Every time The Giant thinks to himself "how can I cause the most groaning agony to my readers" he has an outlet now. :smallbiggrin:

[Darmarc]

Over the dwarvan lands Durkon is going home in book 6 I wonder what the destruvton will be, I sence the end of the book soon i wouled give it 3 more strips and i think it will end with the ship flying into the distance

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[Caustic Soda]

this should help (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U18VkI0uDxE)

Snrk. That was pretty good. thanks.

[Chaotic Queen]

Is this the first meme reference in OOTS?

No. Haley used the "X Y is X" meme earlier.

[Ivrytwr]

Thanks Giant, that was just full of awesome!
And the race is on. Team evil must be having a hard time if they aren't going to make any progress for the next eight days.
... I've never arrived anywhere earlier than the nick of time.

[Michaeler]

For the record, the heading was given here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0934.html).

[Gamgee]

He's just so awesome. Can we get him as a smiley now? NOW! Thanks.

[Lheticus]

I have a thought I can post without even reading the new comic:

IT'S HERE! IT'S HEEEEERE! YEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSS! ^_^:biggrin:

[LaughingLemur]

What a strangely placid update. Also, the ioun stone remains Blackwing's shiny.

Maybe the ion stone is the intelligence enhancing one? If Blackwing starts to use it maybe he could better describe what he saw in the rift?

[RichBlueBeard]

So, they're going past dwarven lands, unless something forces them to land before they reach their destination.

So, technically, Durkon is returning to the land of his farthers but not under a living form.

(Even if they just fly over the dwarven lands.)

Interesting...

:smallamused:

Rich.

[Lordchoculla]

I don't always check for updates...
But when I do, they've just arrived!

I love Blackwing.

Hmm... does this mean, that if you check more frequently, then we get even more frequent updates? While I have absolutely no complaints, I would not be adverse to find more updates, really. So please kindly do check in more often, will you :smallsmile:

[Living Oxymoron]

That Scoundrél meme... I see a T-shirt coming. :smallamused:

(Elan is healed from his wounds before drinking the potions?)

[gorocz]

Julio Scoundrel, the most interesting man in the world.
and what does bandana mean by flying in the header of "Get The Heck Out Of Here"?
While the others' suggestions that it's just "flying away from somewhere" are certainly more probable, it could also have something to do with the Goaway Mountains - a part of the Western continent that splits the desert from the Elven lands - the north part of the continent. That would mean she's flying in a somehow correct direction (Roy told her to fly north, she was already flying north - "Good, 'cause I've been flying -there- for 15 minutes.")
...

For the record, the heading was given here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0934.html).

Ooh, I didn't even manage to write the post before someone spoiled my crazy theory :smallbiggrin:

[The Giant]

(Elan is healed from his wounds before drinking the potions?)

I have no idea what you're talking about.

:smallredface:

[Lheticus]

And now that I HAVE read the comic, I can say something that's actually something: I love that Julio even shows up in the nick of time to DENTIST APPOINTMENTS. XD XD XDDDDDDD

[VanIsleKnight]

Does Blackwing have a fanclub yet? I want there to be a fanclub for Blackwing.

:smallbiggrin:

[thereaper]

Guess we all know what we want for the next shirt.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Haha, that was a funny comic. I think we're definitely starting to see some falling action now. Julio is awesome, like usual.

[Ron Miel]

Game mechanics question - how come the potion didn't heal Haley's arm?

[hagnat]

great comic

but Elan wounds are missing on the panels before they drank the healing potions

and blackwing is roleplaying (http://www.giantitp.com/Images/fanart/ootsfill2.gif), V. He wants to earn some more xp

[zimmerwald1915]

Game mechanics question - how come the potion didn't heal Haley's arm?
Apparently it's one of those injuries that is not represented by HP damage, and which therefore must be healed with regenerate.

[137beth]

And this is why the mechane is awesome:smallsmile:

[Anarion]

Game mechanics question - how come the potion didn't heal Haley's arm?

Similar reason they didn't heal Belkar's constitution damage. Tarquin inflicted some kind of lasting condition on her that probably requires a regenerate spell to heal (which Durkon can do later).

Edit: Zimmerwald is too fast for me.

[zimmerwald1915]

Edit: Zimmerwald is too fast for me.
It warms my heart to learn that I'm not on your ignore list. I had wondered. :smallredface:

[Peelee]

I love Blackwing here. This is a bird after my own heart, both in real life and in campaigns.

(Bytheway, zimmerwald, I just nope noticed your Lake Wobegon location. I love it.)

[Ron Miel]

No. Haley used the "X Y is X" meme earlier.

I've no idea what this refers to.

[cavalier973]

"...I've never arrived anywhere earlier than the nick of time."

Made me chuckle.

I never figured Blackwing for a drama queen.

[Living Oxymoron]

Edit: Zimmerwald is too fast for me.

Too slow, sister. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0208.html)

[Peelee]

I've no idea what this refers to.

10 char limit (http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/x-y-is-x-redundant-adjectives-are-redundant)

[Chad30]

Ok, Xykon has a headstart of 8 days. If he finds it within two days there won't be many monsters left in Serini's Tomb... less xp for our heroes... but probably also less death... :smalleek:

It seems it's Wrapping Up Time. Wonder if there's going to be talk with Durkon...

I'm pretty sure the fact that the villain has a head start increases the chance that the dungeon will cause him trouble. I'd be more surprised if he blew through it with ease, though it's possible. I expect the good guys to win, so there needs to be something to slow Xykon down until the Order gets there.

[Clistenes]

And again, the team has a reason to remind V that losing access to all the teleport spells was an horrible idea and a very stupid thing to do.

[colanderman]

So, technically, Durkon is returning to the land of his farthers but not under a living form.

(Even if they just fly over the dwarven lands.)

I can't figure out if this is a typo or a pun…!

[zimmerwald1915]

And again, the team has a reason to remind V that losing access to all the teleport spells was an horrible idea and a very stupid thing to do.
It wouldn't matter. Of the Order, only Roy knows where Kraagor's Gate is, and I'm not convinced that thirdhand latitude-longitude coordinates is a "reliable" enough description to allow for the use of greater teleport.

[Cynric]

Great strip; although part of me suspects that the awesome pun was created first, and the page was created later as an excuse to use it.

Also I'm now going to have to be late for all my dental appointments. Health concerns be damned.

[Silva Stormrage]

I'm pretty sure the fact that the villain has a head start increases the chance that the dungeon will cause him trouble. I'd be more surprised if he blew through it with ease, though it's possible. I expect the good guys to win, so there needs to be something to slow Xykon down until the Order gets there.

The giant monster guardians? O'Chul and Lien? I think the OOTS should be able to catch up fine.

[jamiah93]

The density of great jokes in here is just amazing, as usual.

Don't you mean the dentistry of great jokes?

[CarpeGuitarrem]

That was glorious in no uncertain terms.

[Living Oxymoron]

And again, the team has a reason to remind V that losing access to all the teleport spells was an horrible idea and a very stupid thing to do.

Teleportation spells still belonged to the Transmutation school when V made that decision (3.0). (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0340.html)

[Caex]

Of course Julio Scoundrel is the most interesting man in the stickverse.

[Sunken Valley]

This comic is going to be really dated in a couple of years.

[Living Oxymoron]

It wouldn't matter. Of the Order, only Roy knows where Kraagor's Gate is, and I'm not convinced that thirdhand latitude-longitude coordinates is a "reliable" enough description to allow for the use of greater teleport.

And what I learned about Laurin so far, is that the Wormhole power could possibly overcome that disadvantage of the Greater Teleport. One more thing to believe the level of that power was pretty high.

[Gift Jeraff]

Blackwing's talons look odd in Panel 2.

[KoboldRevenge]

You, know I can't think of any event that can be ruined by nick of time entrances. In a story at least.

[Anarion]

It warms my heart to learn that I'm not on your ignore list. I had wondered. :smallredface:

If it's in ponythread, I'm just not reading it. Poke me in one of my game threads or a PM. I'm on a lot, but with other stuff.


And again, the team has a reason to remind V that losing access to all the teleport spells was an horrible idea and a very stupid thing to do.


It wouldn't matter. Of the Order, only Roy knows where Kraagor's Gate is, and I'm not convinced that thirdhand latitude-longitude coordinates is a "reliable" enough description to allow for the use of greater teleport.

In addition to Zimmerwald's answer, the comic has already demonstrated the dangers of blind teleportation in the darth V arc. I would be surprised if an epic rogue like Serini hadn't prepared some anti-teleport defenses. For that matter, Xykon probably teleported nearby and went in on foot.

[Tass]

I don't always like memes in the comics I read, but when they're funny without needing to recognize them (which this is) I think it's ok. Thanks for making me laugh in the morning, Giant.

Uhm, it is practically nothing BUT memes.

You are aware that meme doesn't mean "picture shared on the internet" right? (Though those definitely do qualify as memes (and I guess if we took the above definition literally then a webcomic would truly be nothing but memes by definition (I'll stop talking now)))

[Kish]

This comic is going to be really dated in a couple of years.
It's not like it's exactly contrary to Julio Scoundrel's themes for one of the jokes about him to be a "the current generation doesn't get this" deal.

[Vinsfeld]

Julio is awesome :smallbiggrin:

[MReav]

Well Belkar, take heart in that with several days to go, Durkon will be able to prepare several Restorations and if necessary, a Greater Restoration.

I'm curious, will we be seeing Xykon and Redcloak setting up the ritual?

[WindStruck]

awesome jokes in this comic. Wait who am I kidding, they're awesome in every comic. :smallbiggrin:

[Brian B.]

Another masterpiece.

[Kish]

I'm curious, will we be seeing Xykon and Redcloak setting up the ritual?
Did Xykon and Redcloak stroll past Lirian's defenses without effort? Emphatically no.
Did Xykon and Redcloak stroll past Dorukan's defenses without effort? No.
Did Xykon and Redcloak stroll past Soon's defenses without effort? Again, emphatically no.
Girard's a tricky one because Vaarsuvius wiped out his family, leaving the gate undefended. Xykon and Redcloak might, or might not, have actually strolled past his defenses had they ever encountered them. However, barring a discovery that all the monsters in Kraagor's tomb were related to the ancient black dragon, I think we can presume that Xykon and Redcloak will most definitely not stroll past Serini's defenses without effort offpanel.

[Anarion]

I'm curious, will we be seeing Xykon and Redcloak setting up the ritual?

Probably not right away, since they need to get through the dungeon. Eventually, yeah there's a good chance since this is the last gate.

[Jay R]

Great strip; although part of me suspects that the awesome pun was created first, and the page was created later as an excuse to use it.

That's usually how writing works.


Awesome advertisement!

But who in their right mind would want to be just in the nick of time for a root canal?

It doesn't matter. In more than 30 years, he's never arrived earlier than the nick of time for anything.

[And for the record, I really wanted to get to my root canal when I had some nerve causing a commotion.]

[Dandria]

Is it just me or does this strip keep getting better and better?

[Dracon1us]

you're spoiling us Giant! :smallredface:
another Moment of Awesome!

[Muenster Man]

It's official: Blackwing is my favorite character of this book

[Dracon1us]

Is it just me or does this strip keep getting better and better?

like any artist, the Giant levels-up with his works

[oppyu]

Hrrm, another point in the 'cultural reference I don't get' column. Blackwing's definitely a Drama King, and it looks like Julio's sticking with the party for the foreseeable future. Bring on the end of the book!

[Breccia]

"Darndest thing, really."

HAH!

[Liliet]

Woo, I saw the comic as early as the first ten pages (that's really rare, it usually takes about two hours to get that much).

I like Julio's relationship with narrative... and his relationship with casuality, too. I suspect that this time arriving "at the nick of time" would require time travel, given that Xykon's been there for at least an hour already.

And there is no potion of restoration. Whatever, really; Durkon has to have that spell.

"The heading of Get The Heck Out Of Here" made me chuckle. I like little wordplays like that... if that's what you can call a wordplay... whatever it was, I like this sort of thing. So long as it's not about sex, obviously, I'm just tired of that.

I liked Blackwing's attention-whoring, too. At last he can get attention from V, and he's using the opportunity to the full potential :smallbiggrin:


Also, Haley's broken arm wasn't healed with the potions, I see. That's nice: SOME application for that Heal skill.

Oh, and I like Elan's expression when he asks Julio to fly them around, and Julio's casual smile in response.


So generally, this strip is fine. Not as good as Caster Fight, of course, but nowhere near the sadness of Julio's arrival and the strip before it.

[Eldest]

This comic is going to be really dated in a couple of years.

There's one panel that's a reference. It, referring to the single panel, is actually somewhat funny even if you don't know the reference. Really dated is a bit strong.

Lovely comic, Giant.

[Aasimar]

That line about never having arrived earlier than the nick of time killed me.:smallbiggrin:

[Jay R]

I note that Julio came in with the specific intention of frustrating the trope that his return would be so he could die, in order to motivate Elan for revenge. He was specifically attacking that trope, so it didn't apply.

But now he's just choosing to hang with the party. We may have to raise the Julio threat level again.

[Liliet]

I didn't recognize the reference, but then again, I didn't recognize it as being a reference I couldn't recognize. If that's confusing: it's not going to be dated!

(not more dated than what we study at our literature lessons, anyway)


And Julio's role is not Elan's mentor right now. He's an NPC who helps them. He's in less danger than Hanna Shattersmith, me thinks :smallbiggrin:

[Shadowknight12]

Can I just say how much I love the way you write Elan, Giant? The little touches stick in my mind so much because they are things you just don't see anywhere. "Nothing V and Haley couldn't handle." That was amazing writing. After Tarquin being so dismissive and misogynistic towards Haley, it's such an amazing breath of fresh air to see her heroism and contributions openly acknowledged.

She got Tarquin fair and square, and with a broken arm nonetheless. Just, great job, Giant.

[ss49]

Hi-larious!
I would've commented earlier, but I spent 40 minutes checking out Rule of Cool (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TravelingAtTheSpeedOfPlot&sa=U&ei=ZrzSUrKuJYr4oASl0ILIBw&ved=0CAUQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNHYFxWe2Hz5IoXKKWFsSyKuzt8Jaw).

And for Durkon, he may return to the Dwarven Homeland posthumously soon, then perhaps be restored to life. Is there a potion or scroll he could prepare that would enable one someone else to de-vamp him?

[rs2excelsior]

Yes. This was the funniest strip in a long time :smallsmile:

Blackwing, the dos Equis reference, the Mechane going faster when more's at risk... Loved it!

[Ibrey]

I think I like the product endorsement joke best among those on the page, even though I haven o idea what it's supposed to refer to.

The reference is to a series of beer commercials (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlmwXolYH9A) featuring an Ernest Hemingway-like adventurer. In all of these commercials, various improbable accomplishments are attributed to him, and then he looks at the camera and says "I don't always drink beer, but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis." The comic also references the character's afterlife as an Advice Animal (http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-most-interesting-man-in-the-world).

[Vladier]

So, the nick of time for the whole Gate thing is almost by definition "enough time left before the last second of the Gate ritual's casting time to foil it or not to do that and discover the Truth-Behind-Everything-That-Will-Be-Accidentally-Revealed-By-Unsuspecting-Villain (or TBETWBARBUV, for short) after an epic fight with the ritual casters' underlings". If I remember correctly, it has been stated that the ritual's preparation+casting time is about a week. So if we go with Julio's estimation it will take Xykon and Redcloak three days at most (without Mechane going back in time or crushing half way due to the laws of dramatic convenience) to secure the Kraagor's Tomb and fill it with enough of their minions to give the Order something to fight through.

[ericgrau]

The surprise pun! Cannot handle the surprise pun. Especially since my tooth hurts, sigh.

[Liliet]

So, the nick of time for the whole Gate thing is almost by definition "enough time left before the last second of the Gate ritual's casting time to foil it or not to do that and discover the Truth-Behind-Everything-That-Will-Be-Accidentally-Revealed-By-Unsuspecting-Villain (or TBETWBARBUV, for short) after an epic fight with the ritual casters' underlings". If I remember correctly, it has been stated that the ritual's preparation+casting time is about a week. So if we go with Julio's estimation it will take Xykon and Redcloak three days at most (without Mechane going back in time or crushing half way due to the laws of dramatic convenience) to secure the Kraagor's Tomb and fill it with enough of their minions to give the Order something to fight through.
TBETWBARBUV. Gotta remember that :smallbiggrin:

Also, I demand that Mechane go back in time and prove that sometimes laws of narrative casuality are more reliable than laws of physics :smallbiggrin:

[Lordchoculla]

This comic is going to be really dated in a couple of years.

Huh? Not sure I understand this. If you mean what I think you mean, I respectfully disagree. To me it is timeless like all good, intelligent and well-written top-class literature.

[BroomGuys]

This comic is going to be really dated in a couple of years.

"Tell you what, you get back to me after your first grandchild is born and we'll see how daisy-fresh YOUR pop culture jokes are, OK? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0746.html)"

[Lordchoculla]

awesome jokes in this comic. Wait who am I kidding, they're awesome in every comic. :smallbiggrin:

I wholeheartedly agree :smallsmile:

[Nightsbridge]

I note that Julio came in with the specific intention of frustrating the trope that his return would be so he could die, in order to motivate Elan for revenge. He was specifically attacking that trope, so it didn't apply.

But now he's just choosing to hang with the party. We may have to raise the Julio threat level again.

I can't say I agree with you. He's their bus driver, and will probably just drop them off and speed away like a soccer mom unloading kids at practice.

[Sir_Leorik]

Julio Scoundrel steals the show in this strip! Between the "most interesting man in the world" parody, the root canal punchline, and the fact that his ship travels faster if there's a dramatic scene he needs to reach, and the fact that he's wearing three different outfits in three different scenes, he is the "most interesting character" in this strip!

Blackwing's histrionics come a close second. :smallbiggrin:

[Neoriceisgood]

So many obnoxious jokes.


Obnoxious in a good way. :smallamused:

[Martok]

Stay thirsty, my friends. :smallamused:

[Kokopelli Jones]

"I don't always take damage ... but when I do I drink a potion.
I guess I've got some nerve, making a commotion."

Nice little hidden couplet poem there. I don't know if Rich did that on purpose. But it wouldn't surprise me of Julio sneaked that one past him.

[oonker]

The Giant has leveled up! Adjustments in Stats:

+2 punning
+2 parody
+1 story advancement
+ restored HP to normal levels

[FlawedParadigm]

This comic is going to be really dated in a couple of years.

Nnnnnnno. Nevermind that the meme being referenced has been around four or five years already and I don't see it going away any time soon, there is no reason to believe that the internet is suddenly going to delete every single image related to "I don't always do x" so that there'd be no point of research for it.

I mean heck, I have < 200 Farcebook friends and I see a new one of those every week if not more often. (The Xzybit ones finally died off about six months back.)

...Although reflecting on it, it might have been even funnier with "Dos Potions" and two potions pictured. But hey, I like it as is.

[FlawedParadigm]

"I don't always take damage ... but when I do I drink a potion.
I guess I've got some nerve, making a commotion."

Nice little hidden couplet poem there. I don't know if Rich did that on purpose. But it wouldn't surprise me of Julio sneaked that one past him.

Are you saying that just because they're flying over ocean?
Because if you are, then that's some noteworthy devotion.

[brionl]

A heading can also be "First star on the right, straight on until morning" or "Head out on the highway, looking for adventure".

Shouldn't the most interesting adventurer in the world be drinking Dos Healus?
Stay sticky, my friends.

[Killer Angel]

and tHe winner is...
"THE ICY TALONS OF DEATH!" :smallbiggrin:

[ThreadKiller]

That potion endorsement panel should be on a shirt! :smallbiggrin:

[kiapet]

Notice how Elan takes absolutely no credit for that encounter. I mean, all he really did was break his dad's spirit, but still.

[Kariccia]

Ohhhh, new potion bottle designs. :smallbiggrin: I wonder if they mean anything beyond a different brewer. They're probably some high-class brewer or something.

[Jay R]

Horray more Julio! I'm sad Julio doesn't have a specific brand though. I mean, "I don't always drink potions. But when i do, i drink (Dwarven Sounding beer-potion)". Who is he endorsing with "potion"? *nit picked funny joke*

It's unnecessary. There's no television for commercials. This poster is in the front window of the potion brewer's shop.


I can't say I agree with you. He's their bus driver, and will probably just drop them off and speed away like a soccer mom unloading kids at practice.

But the only reason for the soccer mom to return would be to be killed by one of the soccer team's recurring foes, so that the team can cradle her dying body while ...

Ummm.

Wait a minute ...

Oh.

Never mind.

[sengmeng]

I think Julio just became my favorite character!

[SavageWombat]

Is there such a thing as too perfect a joke? This may have been it.

[St Fan]

Nobody is mentioning that the pirate girl used her own bandana to put Haley's arm in a sling. I thought that was nice.

Okay, I'm definitely spending too much time on the Web, considering I got the endorsement joke. I shouldn't be able to recognize an advertisement that was never broadcast in my own country.

[Keltest]

It's unnecessary. There's no television for commercials. This poster is in the front window of the potion brewer's shop.

Do you perhaps not remember Xykon's scrying devices?

[David Argall]

Did Xykon and Redcloak stroll past Lirian's defenses without effort? Emphatically no.
Did Xykon and Redcloak stroll past Dorukan's defenses without effort? No.
Did Xykon and Redcloak stroll past Soon's defenses without effort? Again, emphatically no.
Girard's a tricky one because Vaarsuvius wiped out his family, leaving the gate undefended. Xykon and Redcloak might, or might not, have actually strolled past his defenses had they ever encountered them. However, barring a discovery that all the monsters in Kraagor's tomb were related to the ancient black dragon, I think we can presume that Xykon and Redcloak will most definitely not stroll past Serini's defenses without effort offpanel.
Strolling is not the point. Team Evil [once lichified] were past Lirian's defenses in a day and past Soon's almost as fast. We can't say, but we can't rule out getting past Girard's about as fast.
X may have to work to get past Serini's defenses, but there is clearly a major danger that X will be long past any defenses and working on the ritual when the party arrives. Arriving in the nick of time is a very real possibility.

On another time point, this book started with Belkar having less than 7 weeks on his predictions. Time passage is rather flexible of course, but it is looking like we will find out the actual meaning soon [by story time at least.]

[McStabbington]

Julio, you made me snort with laughter like a piglet. Well done, old chap!:smallwink:

[Lexible]

HAH! Belkar nails Rolle's Theorem (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolle%27s_theorem)! Yes!

I think it is fascinating that Rich can write a reprehensible callously murderous thug of a character like Belkar who I (and others) find delightfully charming. I still hope he finds a way to heal and redeem himself (58 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0058.html)).

[Gift Jeraff]

Horray more Julio! I'm sad Julio doesn't have a specific brand though. I mean, "I don't always drink potions. But when i do, i drink (Dwarven Sounding beer-potion)". Who is he endorsing with "potion"? *nit picked funny joke*

Clearly there's only 1 potion brewery in the world. The competition comes from clergies.

[Lexible]

Nobody is mentioning that the pirate girl used her own bandana to put Haley's arm in a sling. I thought that was nice.

SWEET CATCH! dang . . . there's no delighted-face smiley.

:: delightedface ::

[Celisasu]

I rather love how Blackwing is something of a drama queen.

[Lexible]

Ohhhh, new potion bottle designs. :smallbiggrin: I wonder if they mean anything beyond a different brewer. They're probably some high-class brewer or something.

Maybe it's just because I am a Portlandian, but I kinda prefer my potions to be brewed with heirloom hopps, aged in an old oak whiskey cask and pressurized with nitrous oxide over carbon dioxide. :smallwink:

[Lexible]

Nnnnnnno. Nevermind that the meme being referenced has been around four or five years already

Oh you young kids. . . the meme itself is based off of old celebrity AmEx endorsement commercials from the 70s (60s), which were probably cribbed from TV celebrity endorsements from the 50s and early 60s.

Edit: opinion's based solely on author's desire to use the "you young kids" trope/meme/Deus Ex Machina.

[GuySmiley1970]

On another time point, this book started with Belkar having less than 7 weeks on his predictions. Time passage is rather flexible of course, but it is looking like we will find out the actual meaning soon [by story time at least.]

If I'm calculating the timeline correctly, a little over two weeks have passed in this book from start to finish. Even if it takes the Mechane a week to get to the last gate, there should still be four weeks and change left before the end of the year. Plenty of time for Belkar to survive Book 6. (Not guaranteed, of course, but the rumors of Belkar's imminent death have been greatly exaggerated for a long time now. :smallsmile:)

[Gwynfrid]

A truly awesome comic, in a more subtle way than its predecessor, but just as phenomenal. I'm amazed at how Rich can use a transition strip, like this one, to do everything : story advancement, foreshadowing, great comedy, great puns, and character growth all rolled into one. Many authors can do a cool action scene. Not everyone knows how to do what this strip accomplishes.

[Gusion]

Cute. Nothing amazing. If I were to nitpick I'd say it makes Laurin even worse - she can't even hurt a bird? What horrible casting.

I like the humor though.

[Messenger]

Just concerned about Haley's broken arm. How does that work in D&D, especially where potion healing is applied? How does it work here (question specifically address to the Giant)?

This sort of thing has happened to another (3.5) D&D-based comic: Goblins by Tarol Hunt. Complains-of-Names broke his arm during their adventure in Brassmoon City. It was healed but because the bones weren't set properly, his arm was "ruined". (http://www.goblinscomic.org/10232009/) :smalleek:

I'm worried the same can happen to our favorite red-headed archer. :smallfrown:

I'm aware that despite both The Order of the Stick and Goblins being based on D&D, they still run very differently, according to the rules and personal style of their respective authors. It can even be said that both the Giant and Thunt play their D&D campaigns very differently. But I do wonder how things will work here and now, after this update, with Haley's arm in a sling and everyone sharing post-combat healing potions.

Also note that I mean no offense in making this comparison between the two webcomics (comparisons easily bring out rivalries and arguments among people, even if such isn't the point being made).

Thanks guys, especially to the Giant for another wonderful work. :smallsmile:

[Messenger]

Cute. Nothing amazing. If I were to nitpick I'd say it makes Laurin even worse - she can't even hurt a bird? What horrible casting.

I like the humor though.I'm guessing she was that low on power points that she couldn't spare anything lethal for Blackwing, hence why she ultimately bailed.

Which is good 'coz I'm a huge fan of Blackwing.

[Lord Raziere]

Stay healthy, my friends.

fixed that for you.

and now I want that Julio Panel, only bigger and without that text, so I can put my own words on it. oh well.

[Clistenes]

It wouldn't matter. Of the Order, only Roy knows where Kraagor's Gate is, and I'm not convinced that thirdhand latitude-longitude coordinates is a "reliable" enough description to allow for the use of greater teleport.

That wouldn't be a problem if V had access to scrying spells. Get a description of the place, send a sensor, memorize how it looks, teleport there.

I don't really get why anybody would play an specialized wizard, unless your DM forced you to nerf the character, really.

[HendoJ]

Amazing!! I just can't accept that ad without a beard though.:smallfrown:

[Shale]

Clerics get scrying spells too.

[Lexible]

Cute. Nothing amazing. If I were to nitpick I'd say it makes Laurin even worse - she can't even hurt a bird? What horrible casting.

To be fair to Laurin, she can hurt a little bird (or big bird), but her go-to defensive spell is MIGRAINE IN YOUR FACE! Arguably, given how low her psi points were, she was actually playing optimally there by using a standard low-level defense, over something more powerful like disintegrate.

[Clistenes]

Clerics get scrying spells too.

Yup, but, unless Durkon made a picture of the place or V used a spell to see Durkon's memories, that wouldn't help V teleport (if he could teleport, that is).

[luagha]

Whatever Laurin's 'Lockdown' power is, it doesn't do hit points of damage.

It's painful, it makes you unable to act; maybe even defenseless and available for a coup de grace. It may hold you in that state until you make a saving throw, round after round. Laurin can probably spend more and more power points on it to 'nova' it and affect more targets after the first. It's a lot like Mass Hold Person. (Although it can affect Blackwing.)

But it doesn't do hitpoints of damage.

[Orm-Embar]

Nothing V and Haley couldn't handle. :smallbiggrin: Nicely said by Elan. Yeah, what this comic needed was more Julio Scoundrel. Thanks Giant.

[busterswd]

This comic made me happy in all the best sorts of ways.

Well done once again, Giant.

[Amphiox]

I'm guessing she was that low on power points that she couldn't spare anything lethal for Blackwing, hence why she ultimately bailed.

Which is good 'coz I'm a huge fan of Blackwing.

Laurin hadn't used a single ability all fight that does hitpoint damage of any kind, let alone lethal. In fact we haven't EVER seen Laurin use any hitpoint damaging abilities on living targets in the entire comic! The only one she's ever used is the Disintegrate equivalent, and only on inanimate objects and a dead body.

That degree of consistency suggests a psychological reason. Either she just doesn't like causing hitpoint damage (some kind of keep-my-own-hands-clean hypocrisy) or she perceived her role in obtaining Tarquin's favor as providing support without inflicting hitpoint damage, and letting Tarquin take all the kills.

Or maybe she's one of those villains-with-weird-arbitrary-standards, and killing a bird would have crossed the line?

[Oko and Qailee]

I thought there was something fishy about the mechanes timing earlier

[wzeller]

"Stay WOUNDED, my friends."

Fixed that for you.

After all, the original quote is "Stay thirsty" not "Stay sated".

w

[oonker]

Just concerned about Haley's broken arm. How does that work in D&D, especially where potion healing is applied? How does it work here (question specifically address to the Giant)?

This sort of thing has happened to another (3.5) D&D-based comic: Goblins by Tarol Hunt. Complains-of-Names broke his arm during their adventure in Brassmoon City. It was healed but because the bones weren't set properly, his arm was "ruined". (http://www.goblinscomic.org/10232009/) :smalleek:

I'm worried the same can happen to our favorite red-headed archer. :smallfrown:

I'm aware that despite both The Order of the Stick and Goblins being based on D&D, they still run very differently, according to the rules and personal style of their respective authors. It can even be said that both the Giant and Thunt play their D&D campaigns very differently. But I do wonder how things will work here and now, after this update, with Haley's arm in a sling and everyone sharing post-combat healing potions.

Also note that I mean no offense in making this comparison between the two webcomics (comparisons easily bring out rivalries and arguments among people, even if such isn't the point being made).

Thanks guys, especially to the Giant for another wonderful work. :smallsmile:

Restoration spell :)

[Ouroborosi]

8 days travel time?
Will next story arch star our two paladins and the order ariving in the nick of time?

could be intesting

[ralphmerridew]

Did Xykon and Redcloak stroll past Soon's defenses without effort? Again, emphatically no.

Without effort? No. Still, the battle of Azure city only took a few hours.

[BrotherMirtillo]

I’m glad they’re stable (no matter how temporary that may be), I’m glad they’ve got full transport to the North (no matter what may happen when they get there), and I approve of the dental pun.


"Nothing V and Haley couldn't handle." That was amazing writing. After Tarquin being so dismissive and misogynistic towards Haley, it's such an amazing breath of fresh air to see her heroism and contributions openly acknowledged.

She got Tarquin fair and square, and with a broken arm nonetheless. Just, great job, Giant.

Guessing by her smile, she appreciates it completely.


And I noted that Elan omits to mention not only that Tarquin and Laurin came, but also that he played any role at all in the fight. Another sign of character growth : a book earlier he'd have told everything to Roy without even thinking. Apparently Haley influences his behavior as well as he does hers.

Quite right, and I bet she appreciates that, too, seeing as she's had her own reasons to not tell Roy about her family (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0681.html). But she resolved the matter with Roy, whereas Elan is letting it stay quiet for now. That's because they have different reasons for their reticence. Haley stayed quiet because she didn't trust Roy, and he didn't trust her, but eventually they did. I think Elan's staying quiet because he respects Roy and wants Roy to stay his leader.

And I say, let Elan do as he chooses there. You're right, he's grown a lot. He's got a better idea of what's important and how he relates to people around him, and Exhibit A is his conclusion in the last strip that his father is not the most important thing for the Order to handle.


I'd be more surprised if he blew through it with ease, though it's possible. I expect the good guys to win, so there needs to be something to slow Xykon down until the Order gets there.


So, the nick of time for the whole Gate thing is almost by definition "enough time left before the last second of the Gate ritual's casting time to foil it or not to do that and discover the Truth-Behind-Everything-That-Will-Be-Accidentally-Revealed-By-Unsuspecting-Villain (or TBETWBARBUV, for short) after an epic fight with the ritual casters' underlings". If I remember correctly, it has been stated that the ritual's preparation+casting time is about a week.

Xykon's given estimate for the Gate-commanding rituals is a few weeks (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0416.html), although that's assuming Redcloak informed him honestly, which might not be true. But I'm hoping it doesn’t get to that point, because that would mean Team Evil: Two and a Half Villains already blew through Serini’s menagerie, and I really want to see her collection go to town on some intruders. We'll have to see how much leeway eight or possibly seven days can buy.


I don't really get why anybody would play an specialized wizard, unless your DM forced you to nerf the character, really.

"Nerf" is the wrong word. The Giant chooses his character's skills based on personalities, not powergaming. (Have you ever watched Yu-Gi-Oh? It's the same pattern.) Durkon's loyalty to Thor's teachings means he favors smashing evil in the face with a big hammer (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0861.html) (or used to, anyway), and Malack's ingrained senses for mortality and predation lead him to choose spells of death and sickness for his foes and hunter's might for himself. In V's case, xe seems to have chosen to study the arcane arts because of an appreciation for the flash and the bang. Strategy came later. (And not least is what Living Oxymoron noted (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16774849&postcount=79): teleportation was within V's grasp until relatively recently.)


Nobody is mentioning that the pirate girl used her own bandana to put Haley's arm in a sling. I thought that was nice.

Absolutely! I think she's the same crew member from Elan's training montage. Certainly, she's a generous gal.


Eve & Larry's Alchemy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0135.html), of course! What better way to increase traffic than with an expensive celebrity endorsement campaign?

Brilliant. This is now headcanon. I bet they paid through the nose to get his endorsement, too.

[happycrow]

He even puns the dentist. Great strip, the only one in the house who's non lol'ing is the cat.

[Kish]

Without effort? No. Still, the battle of Azure city only took a few hours.
And Soon came within an inch of slaughtering Redcloak and destroying Xykon, remember?

[Sniffnoy]

Wait, so what about Ian Starshine? Are they not going to try to rescue him first?

[EccentricFellow]

Another fun update.

You can feel the tension has relaxed, the banter is light-hearted, yet in the back of their consciousness each member knows that the ship heads toward a situation guaranteed to be the most difficult yet. A stalwart band - even if a couple of them don't have any blood.

I, for one, cannot wait to see the Dwarven lands.

[JessmanCA]

I love this comic.

Cute and funny as ever!

[ManicOppressive]

Just concerned about Haley's broken arm. How does that work in D&D, especially where potion healing is applied? How does it work here (question specifically address to the Giant)?

This sort of thing has happened to another (3.5) D&D-based comic: Goblins by Tarol Hunt. Complains-of-Names broke his arm during their adventure in Brassmoon City. It was healed but because the bones weren't set properly, his arm was "ruined". (http://www.goblinscomic.org/10232009/) :smalleek:

I'm worried the same can happen to our favorite red-headed archer. :smallfrown:

I'm aware that despite both The Order of the Stick and Goblins being based on D&D, they still run very differently, according to the rules and personal style of their respective authors. It can even be said that both the Giant and Thunt play their D&D campaigns very differently. But I do wonder how things will work here and now, after this update, with Haley's arm in a sling and everyone sharing post-combat healing potions.

Also note that I mean no offense in making this comparison between the two webcomics (comparisons easily bring out rivalries and arguments among people, even if such isn't the point being made).

Thanks guys, especially to the Giant for another wonderful work. :smallsmile:

The reason Complains's arm is effed up is because Goblins runs on a MUCH lower level campaign. Chief was level 3 at the time and had access to such powerful healing as "Cure Light Wounds." The difference between Cure Light Wounds and Heal or Restoration is the difference between a bandaid and an instant-fountain-of-youth-and-brain/heart/lung-surgery-in-a-bottle.

Durkon can pop completely vaporized body parts back into fully functional existence without breaking a sweat. (Well, Regenerate is a 7th level spell I believe, but seeing as he's used Holy Word we know he can cast those.)

Haley's got nothing to worry about. ;)

[kiapet]

They're going past the Dwarven Lands... looks like Durkon might be coming home soon!

[Joseph_Lavode]

I love Elan's super casual response to the situation. :smallbiggrin:

[Liliet]

Laurin hadn't used a single ability all fight that does hitpoint damage of any kind, let alone lethal. In fact we haven't EVER seen Laurin use any hitpoint damaging abilities on living targets in the entire comic! The only one she's ever used is the Disintegrate equivalent, and only on inanimate objects and a dead body.

That degree of consistency suggests a psychological reason. Either she just doesn't like causing hitpoint damage (some kind of keep-my-own-hands-clean hypocrisy) or she perceived her role in obtaining Tarquin's favor as providing support without inflicting hitpoint damage, and letting Tarquin take all the kills.

Or maybe she's one of those villains-with-weird-arbitrary-standards, and killing a bird would have crossed the line?
I like this.

I like the idea of spellcasters choosing spells and melee warriors choosing weapons because of reasons other than minmaxing.

[Kish]

Wait, so what about Ian Starshine? Are they not going to try to rescue him first?
How would they do that? They don't have the first clue where he is, and he's hiding from "Tarquin's son" as much as he's hiding from Tarquin. Tarquin was planning for--and counting on--Haley having an entire adventure finding and rescuing him while Elan dealt with Zyklon.

Ian's a high-level adventurer, and he'd better be able to handle this himself; the world cannot wait.

Just concerned about Haley's broken arm. How does that work in D&D, especially where potion healing is applied?

There are technically no rules for broken limbs, so it's strictly a matter of how the DM chooses to handle it. Thunt's ruling was extremely harsh; don't worry about Haley.

[Haar]

Wait, so what about Ian Starshine? Are they not going to try to rescue him first?

I was wondering this too, although really they don't have to "rescue" him. It would be more of a "find him" type subquest.

I also wonder if it's within Laurin's power to open another door onto the Mechane sometime later. I'm not really sure about the rules of the spell though. Or if Tarquin will find his way out of the desert, for that matter.

[Liliet]

I was wondering this too, although really they don't have to "rescue" him. It would be more of a "find him" type subquest.

I also wonder if it's within Laurin's power to open another door onto the Mechane sometime later. I'm not really sure about the rules of the spell though. Or if Tarquin will find his way out of the desert, for that matter.

Why, why would she do that? She has approximately ZERO interest in pursuing OotS. And she's about out of pp. I don't know if psions can "recharge" somehow (I know next to nothing about them, in fact) but I do know Laurin has no reason to go back to Mechane. Unless she's in love with Julio and wants to show off XD She'll likely find Tarquin with ease, at least together with Miron, and get him out of there, but return to the airship... I doubt that.

[Knaight]

Cute. Nothing amazing. If I were to nitpick I'd say it makes Laurin even worse - she can't even hurt a bird? What horrible casting.

I like the humor though.

She chose not to hurt a bird. She took Blackwing out of the fight with minimal resource use, which was all she needed to do. It was V that she actually had to worry about, and given that she was running low on power saving it for V was a good idea.

If anything, she acted suboptimally by reacting to Blackwing at all. As far as she knew, Blackwing could be safely ignored - the ioun stone trick was smart, but not something that it makes all that much sense to be hugely worried about. However, Laurin has demonstrated that she absolutely hates being tied down, hurt, etc. Her first instinct is to bail whenever she's in a bad spot (as seen by how she reacted to Durkon, dimensional anchor, etc.), and it was true to character to swat Blackwing down, even if she is smart enough to do so in a minimal way once she's blown through most of her big guns.

[Kish]

I was wondering this too, although really they don't have to "rescue" him. It would be more of a "find him" type subquest.

I also wonder if it's within Laurin's power to open another door onto the Mechane sometime later. I'm not really sure about the rules of the spell though. Or if Tarquin will find his way out of the desert, for that matter.
Laurin (or possibly it was Miron) did indicate earlier that Tarquin could send Jacinda after Roy.

I do not believe the end of Tarquin's story is going to be, "And then Tarquin got lost in the desert and eventually died of thirst." What it would gain in humor and poetic justice, it would lose in sheer implausibility.

That said, Laurin is definitely not going to pursue the Order any more today. It's possible that Tarquin might persuade her to do so later, depending on how many favors she can think of that he can do for her, but I suspect if he brings it up anytime soon, her response is going to be along the lines of, "You know, we actually have an assassin in the party for a reason, Tarquin."

[Ramien]

It sounds like Julio Scoundrél's life is full of one cliffhanger after another as he's always getting every where at the nick of time.

He truly is the most interesting NPC... in the world.

[Fralex]

My guess is they'll just contact her father with a Sending spell to warn him about the danger headed his way.

[kamuishirou]

Awesome!

I don't always take damage...but when I do, I drink a Potion.

So when can we see a shirt? :D

[DaTamarin]

I'm not sure if any one mentioned this before, but the oracle tells durkon that he will return to his homeland when he is dead. Undead counts right? I predict a stop in the dwarven lands.

[Amphiox]

Without effort? No. Still, the battle of Azure city only took a few hours.

Let's not forget that Xykon was stymied by Durokan's defences outside Dorukan's castle for MONTHS, and even after killing Dorukan, he was STILL stymied by Dorukan's defences within the gate room itself for at least several weeks.

Random out of the blue thought - Laurin's Gate ability isn't limited to just transport of people, right? So imagine gating to a moving target like the Mechane and just shoving through a Oxford English Dictionary sized tome filled with explosive runes? Or some artifact enchanted with a version of Girard's triggered explosion spell.

If Miron or else-who can craft artifacts/cast spells of this nature, Team Tarquin has strategic nuclear bombing as a potential battle tactic to use at whim.

[Liliet]

I do not believe the end of Tarquin's story is going to be, "And then Tarquin got lost in the desert and eventually died of thirst." What it would gain in humor and poetic justice, it would lose in sheer implausibility.
...now I know what I want from Tarquin's story. I want it to never be mentioned again, until the very end of the comic. There should be a panel with big white letters on black "The End", and the next update should be a similar panel only with smaller font and text "P.S. Tarquin got lost in desert and eventually died of thirst."

Sheer implausibility isn't always a bad thing, you know :smallbiggrin:

[Squall83]

Now that was a nicely relaxing comic for a change. ^^

[Muenster Man]

...now I know what I want from Tarquin's story. I want it to never be mentioned again, until the very end of the comic. There should be a panel with big white letters on black "The End", and the next update should be a similar panel only with smaller font and text "P.S. Tarquin got lost in desert and eventually died of thirst."

Sheer implausibility isn't always a bad thing, you know :smallbiggrin:

I agree, implausibility can be a good thing if rule of funny wins out. Kind of reminds me of one of the best jokes from The Simpsons, even if the joke comes immediately instead of waiting till the very end of the series:

"Poochie: I have to go now, my planet needs me. *leaves scene and show permanently*
----Note: Poochie died on the way back to his home planet----
Krusty: Poochie's dead!
*Laughter and cheering*"

Here's a link to the clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wZzoeI1pKE)

[Liliet]

Absurdity is the best source of humor ^^

[pasko77]

Without effort? No. Still, the battle of Azure city only took a few hours.

Nope. The preparation of the army took its time. We can assume that in peace time, X and RC could not sneak into the city and secure the throne room.

Also, they almost died there.

[Macros]

I couldn't help but notice the dentist didn't have a glass window.

Somehow, I doubt it was a coincidence. :smallbiggrin:

[Clistenes]

"Nerf" is the wrong word. The Giant chooses his character's skills based on personalities, not powergaming. (Have you ever watched Yu-Gi-Oh? It's the same pattern.) Durkon's loyalty to Thor's teachings means he favors smashing evil in the face with a big hammer (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0861.html) (or used to, anyway), and Malack's ingrained senses for mortality and predation lead him to choose spells of death and sickness for his foes and hunter's might for himself. In V's case, xe seems to have chosen to study the arcane arts because of an appreciation for the flash and the bang. Strategy came later. (And not least is what Living Oxymoron noted (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16774849&postcount=79): teleportation was within V's grasp until relatively recently.)

I wasn't speaking of V or the Giant. I was speaking of the class on itself, and of real gamers. I said that losing two schools is awful and I can't understand why any real player would do that.

I know why the Giant made V a specialist wizard: To show his/her personality flaws (use of brute magic force to solve problems), to avoid making the rest of the team near redundant, and to avoid V solving every problem they might face with a single spell.

As a matter of fact, the whole team is sub-optimal as PCs, they are the way they are for the benefit of the story, not to powergame.

[DaggerPen]

I can't stop laughing. Oh, oh Julio. Most interesting man in the world, huh? The explanation re: the ship's speed made me snicker, too. "It's worth a shot, but I"ve been doing this more than 30 years and I've never arrived anywhere earlier than the nick of time."

Also, I presume there'll be a brief detour to pick up Ian? I hope there'll be some type of cutaway to him, at any rate - aside from hoping to see that plot thread resolved, I've got imaginary money riding on it over in the Demon Roach's betting thread. :smallamused:

[Haar]

Why, why would she do that? She has approximately ZERO interest in pursuing OotS. And she's about out of pp. I don't know if psions can "recharge" somehow (I know next to nothing about them, in fact) but I do know Laurin has no reason to go back to Mechane. Unless she's in love with Julio and wants to show off XD She'll likely find Tarquin with ease, at least together with Miron, and get him out of there, but return to the airship... I doubt that.

I didn't necessarily mean today, right now. I meant, is it within her capabilities to open a gate on the Mechane at any point in the future? Such as, when Team Tarquin has fully regrouped/recovered? Possibly before the OotS reach their destination?

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Okay, the different text is getting on my nerves.

Also, just wait a few years, and that Most Interesting Man In The World reference will be extremely dated.

Also, Blackwing is hilarious, and that last panel is awesome.

[Bovine Colonel]

I wasn't speaking of V or the Giant. I was speaking of the class on itself, and of real gamers. I said that losing two schools is awful and I can't understand why any real player would do that.

I know why the Giant made V a specialist wizard: To show his/her personality flaws (use of brute magic force to solve problems), to avoid making the rest of the team near redundant, and to avoid V solving every problem they might face with a single spell.

As a matter of fact, the whole team is sub-optimal as PCs, they are the way they are for the benefit of the story, not to powergame.

Your point overall is pretty solid, but I'll engage in a bit of nitpicking here. From an optimization standpoint, specialist wizards, depending on the schools chosen/banned (Conjuration is good at pretty much everything), are often stronger/more useful than generalists.

[Grey Watcher]

Ah, ships that travel at the speed of plot.

Does this mean the Mechane involves Vorlon technology? Scoundrel hardly seems the type....

And yes, Scoundrel is The Most Interesting Man in the Campaign Setting. :smallcool:

[orrion]

I didn't necessarily mean today, right now. I meant, is it within her capabilities to open a gate on the Mechane at any point in the future? Such as, when Team Tarquin has fully regrouped/recovered? Possibly before the OotS reach their destination?

Possibly, but why would they? The only one who has an interest in doing that is Tarquin. Laurin and Miron were only along for the ride, and if the rest of Tarquin's party were aware of what the Order is doing they would probably label Tarquin an idiot for trying to stop them.

[Lordchoculla]

ZNIP

Okay, I'm definitely spending too much time on the Web, considering I got the endorsement joke. I shouldn't be able to recognize an advertisement that was never broadcast in my own country.

Living in Denmark I quite frankly have absolutely no idea about what that endorsement is supposed to be. To me it doesn't matter, really. Besides being fun in itself it also competently makes fun of any generic ad. So The Giant's jokes even beats (my) ignorance ... cool :smallbiggrin:

[Lexible]

Okay, the different text is getting on my nerves.

Wait! I saw Rich (and mayhap you?) referencing this earlier . . . but when I do side-by-side comparisons of text from previous strips I can't make out the difference, and I am not the only one in the forums to feel that way. Can you point at a good example that illustrates the difference in Comic Sans rendering before and after Rich's computer meltdown?

[ShaneWegner]

I'm pretty sure the fact that the villain has a head start increases the chance that the dungeon will cause him trouble. I'd be more surprised if he blew through it with ease, though it's possible. I expect the good guys to win, so there needs to be something to slow Xykon down until the Order gets there.

Plenty of monsters have an annoying level of magic resistance, and Xykon hasn't shown himself to be all that resourceful when his core strategy of "melt everything with my tons of sorcerous magic" doesn't work. (Platinum dragon.)

If Serini's dungeon has lots of monsters, maybe she has one of whatever Monster in the Darkness is?

Sure guys, just throw your empty potion bottles on the deck wherever. Chaotic heroes.

[JCAll]

Don't drink those potions guys, Dos Equis are a bad thing to have in the Stickverse.

[Ramien]

I wasn't speaking of V or the Giant. I was speaking of the class on itself, and of real gamers. I said that losing two schools is awful and I can't understand why any real player would do that.

I know why the Giant made V a specialist wizard: To show his/her personality flaws (use of brute magic force to solve problems), to avoid making the rest of the team near redundant, and to avoid V solving every problem they might face with a single spell.

As a matter of fact, the whole team is sub-optimal as PCs, they are the way they are for the benefit of the story, not to powergame.

Because 'real gamers' know that some schools are more equal than others, espeically when getting the ability to cast an extra spell from one of the schools that are more powerful. V's biggest mistake was in specializing in evocation and choosing the wrong barred spells, not in specializing overall.

[St Fan]

I'm not sure if any one mentioned this before, but the oracle tells durkon that he will return to his homeland when he is dead. Undead counts right? I predict a stop in the dwarven lands.

You must be new around here, because otherwise you wouldn't have any doubt about it.

It has indeed been mentioned... just maybe... a thousand times before. Including in every comic update thread since Durkon became a vampire.

It is, in fact, getting quite old already, but it's not your fault.

[Pendulous]

In the third panel, Elan says "it's fine blah blah blah". Shouldn't it be Belkar who says "Oh, ok." instead of Roy? Belkar was the one in the previous panel asking what was going on. Just wondering if a speech bubble got out of place there.

[neothoron]

I love the irony of Julio's "arriving at the nick of time" power hampering him in mundane tasks, when there is no urgency.

[Lordchoculla]

HAH! Belkar nails Rolle's Theorem (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolle%27s_theorem)! Yes!

I think it is fascinating that Rich can write a reprehensible callously murderous thug of a character like Belkar who I (and others) find delightfully charming. I still hope he finds a way to heal and redeem himself (58 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0058.html)).

I find that Belkar is a hugely funny and charming psychopathic little murderous barbarian whose presence in the OOTS is immensely valuable to plot and storytelling. I will miss him if or when he leaves the story.

It would be funny, I think, if he is vampirized by Durkon and turned into a vampire himself. Means he doesn't breathe and that he can stay in the story... not likely, though.

Anyway, it is clear evidence of The Giant's talent that someone like Belkar becomes interesting story-wise. :smallsmile:

[Seward]

I wasn't speaking of V or the Giant. I was speaking of the class on itself, and of real gamers. I said that losing two schools is awful and I can't understand why any real player would do that.


Because lots of players aren't interested in the entire spell list, and are deeply interested in smaller sections of the spell list.

My gnome illusionist had exactly one necromancy spell she missed (false life) [edit - oops. I had so little interest in abjurations I forgot that she actually banned abjuration. She did self defense with reduce person, mirror image, invisibility, etc. She did scribe two spells from the Enchantment school...Rage and Greater Heroism...and the former was something of a fiasco in the field)

Had I started her at higher levels, her Shadow Magic would have covered much of what evocation does, for that matter, although as a faithful follower of Vulcan she had just as much love of her fire spells as she did for more craft-oriented spells such as greater magic weapon and fabricate.

My wizard was limited by her SPELL SLOTS and choices she made in spell selection and resource use per fight (each slot used is an option not there for later in the day, any slot poorly chosen is a slot wasted) much more than her SPELL BOOK. The specialization spell slots made a very large difference to her in low levels, and in higher levels, well, that's why Limited Wish is Universal and can't be banned off any spell list.

My sorceress missed all the spells she didn't have even less, because she was so incredibly good at solving all problems she encountered with her spells known+metamagic.

People who are in parties that are packed with direct damage dealers often feel evocation is a waste too, having their wizards slot a few spells from other schools that do damage for use when the opposition is a few hp from down and "dead is the best status condition".

In Pathfinder, the benefits for specializing are similar to what clerics get for domains, with some quite strong powers beyond the spell slots. I don't think I've ever seen a generalist wizard there. In 3.5 the benefit is weaker, but a wizard out of slots is a d4 hit die critter with the worst weapon proficiencies and bab in the game. Extra slots, especially in the 1-10 game are nearly as useful to a wizard as more spells known are to sorcerers. (this is one reason wands and scrolls benefit them both a lot in low levels, although for different reasons, where in high levels they tend to have enough resources to get through a long day without resorting to consumables)

[Haar]

Possibly, but why would they? The only one who has an interest in doing that is Tarquin. Laurin and Miron were only along for the ride, and if the rest of Tarquin's party were aware of what the Order is doing they would probably label Tarquin an idiot for trying to stop them.

They didn't have any interest before either, until favors were brought up. Tarquin could consider them incomplete since their little mission was unsuccessful.

And say, for the purposes of this hypothetical scenario, T managed to convince the others to tag along. I wasn't aiming for the situation's practicality, only its possibility. I guess the only answer I'm looking for (that no one has bothered to answer yet) is, does Laurin's portal ability allow such an event where IF Tarquin roped a team together, she could get them all on the Mechane? I guess I'm asking for the specifics/limitations of her spell.

[wyrmhole]

Horray more Julio! I'm sad Julio doesn't have a specific brand though. I mean, "I don't always drink potions. But when i do, i drink (Dwarven Sounding beer-potion)". Who is he endorsing with "potion"? *nit picked funny joke*

I think that's another level of the humor -- there's never any branding on these things in D&D, it's always "healing potion" or "potion of heroism". No matter where it came from they're the same.

There was another level I thought of earlier but forgot. That's how deep this comic is! Or how crazy and forgetful I am. Or both.

[Clistenes]

Because 'real gamers' know that some schools are more equal than others, espeically when getting the ability to cast an extra spell from one of the schools that are more powerful. V's biggest mistake was in specializing in evocation and choosing the wrong barred spells, not in specializing overall.

Just a point. I was using the expression "real gamers" as opposed to "tOoS's PC characters".

I'm telling it just in case anybody thought that I meant something else.

[AtomicKitKat]

Haaa. Last panel punchline with at least 2 meanings. Even when he's not dueling he's punning. :smallbiggrin:

[luna the cat]

...now I know what I want from Tarquin's story. I want it to never be mentioned again, until the very end of the comic. There should be a panel with big white letters on black "The End", and the next update should be a similar panel only with smaller font and text "P.S. Tarquin got lost in desert and eventually died of thirst."

Sheer implausibility isn't always a bad thing, you know :smallbiggrin:

"i must go home now. my planet needs me."

tarquin died on the way to his home planet

the end

[Canuck617]

Man, this was a really funny strip. Jokes everywhere!

Also, I'm digging the pun at the end and hope maybe for a new punning thread? [/wishfulthinking]

[canpinter]

Crud Belkar just pointed out hes still weak, the chance of him dying just skyrocketed

[Lordchoculla]

I was wondering this too, although really they don't have to "rescue" him. It would be more of a "find him" type subquest.

ZNIP.

Hmmm..if my memory doesn't fail me completely, The Giant has written that he plans two books after this one. And he only has one gate left so perhaps there is time for monseigneur Starshine also?

[Lexible]

Wait! I saw Rich (and mayhap you?) referencing this earlier . . . but when I do side-by-side comparisons of text from previous strips I can't make out the difference, and I am not the only one in the forums to feel that way. Can you point at a good example that illustrates the difference in Comic Sans rendering before and after Rich's computer meltdown?

Wait... did I do that wrong? Here:

There is no difference in the Comic Sans rendering before and after Rich's computer meltdown*, and anyone who says so is a diddly-widdly silly-head** who i double dog dare to prove me wrong!

* I am actually agnostic on this point.

** I totally do not believe this.

[orrion]

They didn't have any interest before either, until favors were brought up. Tarquin could consider them incomplete since their little mission was unsuccessful.

And say, for the purposes of this hypothetical scenario, T managed to convince the others to tag along. I wasn't aiming for the situation's practicality, only its possibility. I guess the only answer I'm looking for (that no one has bothered to answer yet) is, does Laurin's portal ability allow such an event where IF Tarquin roped a team together, she could get them all on the Mechane? I guess I'm asking for the specifics/limitations of her spell.

We don't really know the specifics and limitations of her spell because the Giant made it up. She already made a portal onto the ship when she had never seen it before, so perhaps the spell allows her to go to a person she's had contact with or lets her open one to wherever within a certain range.

She doesn't necessarily even need to do it, though. Miron knows Teleport and is high enough level to take the party, so all he'd need to do is scry the ship and then use that in the morning (because it's unlikely the ship will out-range the spell by then) or perhaps Greater Teleport if they use it later.

So, if you're only asking "can Tarquin's party continue to harass them" the answer is most likely "yes, they can."

[Lordchoculla]

She chose not to hurt a bird. She took Blackwing out of the fight with minimal resource use, which was all she needed to do. It was V that she actually had to worry about, and given that she was running low on power saving it for V was a good idea.

If anything, she acted suboptimally by reacting to Blackwing at all. As far as she knew, Blackwing could be safely ignored - the ioun stone trick was smart, but not something that it makes all that much sense to be hugely worried about. However, Laurin has demonstrated that she absolutely hates being tied down, hurt, etc. Her first instinct is to bail whenever she's in a bad spot (as seen by how she reacted to Durkon, dimensional anchor, etc.), and it was true to character to swat Blackwing down, even if she is smart enough to do so in a minimal way once she's blown through most of her big guns.

Concerning "she acted suboptimally by reacting to Blackwing at all. " I respectfully disagree. Blackwing took an Ioun Stone that, if I remember correctly, provided Laurin with an extra level. Despite not knowing anything about psionics in D&D I would venture to say that losing that stone must have been costly for Laurin. Thus taking Blackwing out with minimal resources was essential.

[Seward]

As a matter of fact, the whole team is sub-optimal as PCs, they are the way they are for the benefit of the story, not to powergame.

Getting back to the choice of V's specialization.

In Hir party, the only source of ranged offense they have is a rogue archer and, eventually, a little bit of clerical lightning boom.

They're screwed if they get into a ranged combat unless the party arcanist picks some solid ranged spells. If you're going to be expected to fill that hole, running an evoker is a solid decision, especially as the utter duplication of the evoker spell list by SR=no equivalents in conjuration didn't happen until late in 3.5. In 3.0, conjuration had "acid arrow" and that's it, unless you think of Black Tentacles as a damage spell. And since it did not have teleportation spells yet, you can forgive V for thinking that by these levels V would be dim-dooring her melee-heavy party into ginsu-range as a standard tactic instead of relying on less effective options such as disintegrate.

[Seward]

We don't really know the specifics and limitations of her spell because the Giant made it up. She already made a portal onto the ship when she had never seen it before


She had line of sight to the location, or at least to the ship and could describe the location sufficiently for dim-door or teleport to work, without having to actually see the deck (you can target either spell with "I want to go 105' forward and 65' up, although without improved teleport there could be a miss chance of some kind)

[St Fan]

I just realized, this may not be the first time we're seeing this dentist. He sure looks the same as the one who filled Argent's teeth (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0588.html).

[Liliet]

As for Laurin reacting to Blackwing, if I were the DM there, I'd totally force at least a Concentration check and probably a couple of negative situational modifers had she tried to ignore him. I know realism doesn't exactly often take the front seat in OotS, but when it does, I don't think we should shun it out.



I didn't necessarily mean today, right now. I meant, is it within her capabilities to open a gate on the Mechane at any point in the future? Such as, when Team Tarquin has fully regrouped/recovered? Possibly before the OotS reach their destination?
Yes, but why? Laurin's already earned her favor (cue flamewar), I doubt she'd agree to something that pointless again.



Okay, the different text is getting on my nerves.

Also, just wait a few years, and that Most Interesting Man In The World reference will be extremely dated.

Also, Blackwing is hilarious, and that last panel is awesome.
Dated? You know what's dated? Dante's Divine Comedy is. And Don Quixote. And Gulliver's Travels. They were not just referencing pop culture, they were political pamphlets. We need books of at least equal volume to get all the references there.

And this joke was funny even for a person who didn't even understand the fact there was a reference (me).

Of all things in this strip, this joke's gonna date like a fine wine, unless the whole concept of advertisement somehow gets outdated, and I seriously doubt that.



Crud Belkar just pointed out hes still weak, the chance of him dying just skyrocketed
Um. Durkon is down there praying for his cleric spells. Unless rocks suddenly start falling from the sky, Belkar's gonna be fine.

[Kish]

Just a point. I was using the expression "real gamers" as opposed to "tOoS's PC characters".

I'm telling it just in case anybody thought that I meant something else.
Not every "real gamer" optimizes either.

[Lexible]

Not every "real gamer" optimizes either.

Agree! Not to mention 'optimize' is not a single universal monolithic thing, but has a definition which is extremely values and context dependent.

[Ridureyu]

Hilarious comic!

Now, let us fight bitterly over it.

[Liliet]

Agree! Not to mention 'optimize' is not a single universal monolithic thing, but has a definition which is extremely values and context dependent.

I do optimization. It is, in fact, about the only thing I do with DnD characters due to the lack of the other DM around and my laziness about being a DM myself (it's a loooot of work, especially when your players don't know English and don't want to read the sourcebooks because of that). But I do it. It's fun. Except that I do it within my concept of the character. I can't save them due to only having the trial version of HeroLab, but I'm still fond of my pathfinder sorceress whose only damage-dealing spell was acquired due to the Fey bloodline and not chosen. And she wouldn't use it to save her life. Well, someone else's, maybe... She's got principles. Within their borders - let the optimization reign. But no further than that.

Choosing the specialist schools is one of those things that can be integral to the concept despite being suboptimal. Overpoweredness of casters in D20 makes it even more relevant, me thinks.

[Haar]

We don't really know the specifics and limitations of her spell because the Giant made it up. She already made a portal onto the ship when she had never seen it before, so perhaps the spell allows her to go to a person she's had contact with or lets her open one to wherever within a certain range.

She doesn't necessarily even need to do it, though. Miron knows Teleport and is high enough level to take the party, so all he'd need to do is scry the ship and then use that in the morning (because it's unlikely the ship will out-range the spell by then) or perhaps Greater Teleport if they use it later.

So, if you're only asking "can Tarquin's party continue to harass them" the answer is most likely "yes, they can."

Ah, OK. I don't remember Miron using Teleport (only his Contingency) so I kinda ruled that out. Makes more sense to me now though.


Yes, but why? Laurin's already earned her favor (cue flamewar), I doubt she'd agree to something that pointless again.

Eh, I've already expressed that I believe T won't consider the terms satisfactory. :P Although if Laurin doesn't get her favor, then that whole cryptic "It can be repaid today" message just flutters into nothingness. Unless that was what was supposed to happen anyway.

[Ridureyu]

As for Laurin reacting to Blackwing, if I were the DM there, I'd totally force at least a Concentration check and probably a couple of negative situational modifers had she tried to ignore him. I know realism doesn't exactly often take the front seat in OotS, but when it does, I don't think we should shun it out.



Yes, but why? Laurin's already earned her favor (cue flamewar), I doubt she'd agree to something that pointless again.



Dated? You know what's dated? Dante's Divine Comedy is. And Don Quixote. And Gulliver's Travels. They were not just referencing pop culture, they were political pamphlets. We need books of at least equal volume to get all the references there.

And this joke was funny even for a person who didn't even understand the fact there was a reference (me).

Of all things in this strip, this joke's gonna date like a fine wine, unless the whole concept of advertisement somehow gets outdated, and I seriously doubt that.



Um. Durkon is down there praying for his cleric spells. Unless rocks suddenly start falling from the sky, Belkar's gonna be fine.

This comic already has Real Housewives, Teevo... look, it's got a billion dated references as-is. It's still funny.

[Seward]

Not every "real gamer" optimizes either.

And "optimization" means something different to each gamer. And "optimization" actually makes sense only in the context of the other people in your party and the type of campaign in which you are playing.

I'll just leave it there. This kind of theorycraft argument rages in every gaming forum that has ever existed. For OOTS, it would go like this.

Expected campaign at start: Lots of weak opposition, some ambushes, occasional stronger monsters, boss monster at the end. Very MMORPG.

So we get a greatcleave fighter, a TWF ranger with favored enemies probably including Goblin, an arcanist focusing on area evocations. These match the expected campaign really well. This party can grind along using very few resources until the arcanist gets low on "blast the stronger encounters" and everyone gets too low on hitpoints for the cleric to keep up. This is an advantage when crawling a huge dungeon, much better than, say, a party with stronger nova capability for only a few times per day.

Melee clerics are something every newbie is told are awesome, better than fighters. So the party has a melee-oriented cleric. Who is overshadowed by the real fighters until he gets Righteous Might and gets the use of it for a few rounds per day. Still, solid if unspectacular melee performance is a help in conserving spell slots for healing when they're doing long dungeon crawls.

Ok...they have a rogue-archer. Like the melee cleric, it can be a trap, unlike the melee cleric, it doesn't get better just by virtue of higher level spell slots. But it's an error that lots of people make, and Haley does suffer a lot from the utter lack of support her character gets from everybody else (seriously would it kill Durkon to rack a blindness spell from time to time?). Out of combat, Haley is party Face, Scout, Trapfinder so her player is probably able to live with less glory during the combats.

With all that, having a bard makes sense. Nothing else you can add will boost the party damage output more when it is nearly all physical combatants. And if Elan's player would just remember that by his level he's got a whole bunch of spell slots and quite a few spells known, he'd be a lot more help.

And you know....the only stuff that gave them any trouble in the initial campaign was the ambushes. Their ranger dumped wisdom and their rogue isn't exactly high in it, and while Haley's a better scout, she's only mediocre.

Seriously, this kind of party is absolutely typical of the kind of D&D parties most people play, even today, and especially in 3.0 where everybody was new to the entire game system.

[BrotherMirtillo]

I wasn't speaking of V or the Giant. [...]

I know why the Giant made V a specialist wizard: To show his/her personality flaws (use of brute magic force to solve problems), to avoid making the rest of the team near redundant, and to avoid V solving every problem they might face with a single spell.

As a matter of fact, the whole team is sub-optimal as PCs, they are the way they are for the benefit of the story, not to powergame.

Ah, I suppose I blurred the two halves of your earlier post. You already knew how the story goes. Cool. (I'll pass on making a D&D reply -- I don't play it.)

[Lexible]

I do optimization. It is, in fact, about the only thing I do with DnD characters due to the lack of the other DM around and my laziness about being a DM myself (it's a loooot of work, especially when your players don't know English and don't want to read the sourcebooks because of that). But I do it. It's fun. Except that I do it within my concept of the character. I can't save them due to only having the trial version of HeroLab, but I'm still fond of my pathfinder sorceress whose only damage-dealing spell was acquired due to the Fey bloodline and not chosen. And she wouldn't use it to save her life. Well, someone else's, maybe... She's got principles. Within their borders - let the optimization reign. But no further than that.

Choosing the specialist schools is one of those things that can be integral to the concept despite being suboptimal. Overpoweredness of casters in D20 makes it even more relevant, me thinks.

Sure... and then add in that there are campaign settings where killing (and, attacking with lethal damage) is a very rare and very forbidden thing, and all of a sudden 'optimization' doesn't really have much to do with inflicting hit point damage, but rather to do with sneakitude, sleuthtasticness, powerbroking, or whatever else is the central teleology of the particular game.

[Ramien]

Crud Belkar just pointed out hes still weak, the chance of him dying just skyrocketed

Nah, if he said "I feel better than ever!" then he's a dead SSGoW walking...

But he didn't, so he's fine for now.

[Ridureyu]

Cute. Nothing amazing. If I were to nitpick I'd say it makes Laurin even worse - she can't even hurt a bird? What horrible casting.

I like the humor though.

How did we go from "Laurin is an invincible, inexhaustable OP powerhouse" to "Laurin is a wuss who can't hurt anybody?"

[orrion]

Ah, OK. I don't remember Miron using Teleport (only his Contingency) so I kinda ruled that out. Makes more sense to me now though.


Contingency works by activating another spell when certain conditions are met. In this case, I believe the consensus is that Miron set Contingency to activate a Teleport spell when he was below a certain amount of hit points.



Eh, I've already expressed that I believe T won't consider the terms satisfactory. :P Although if Laurin doesn't get her favor, then that whole cryptic "It can be repaid today" message just flutters into nothingness. Unless that was what was supposed to happen anyway.

Miron could always say "Fine, you still have your favor, but you can't call it in for that" and Laurin could just say "Never mind my favor."

That message doesn't entirely flutter into nothingness. That dialogue established just how overconfident and/or powerful they thought they were.

[Kish]

How did we go from "Laurin is an invincible, inexhaustable OP powerhouse" to "Laurin is a wuss who can't hurt anybody?"
By the magic of there being more than one person on the forum, probably.

(If Gusion, specifically, said that Laurin was an invincible, inexhaustible OP powerhouse, then I get egg on my face. But I don't think he did.)

(Which isn't to say I agree with him at all on any level, I don't. Laurin's only demonstrated damaging ability being Disintegrate is called continuity, and it was abundantly obvious that she didn't use Disintegrate on Blackwing.)

[Ailinu]

I just realized, this may not be the first time we're seeing this dentist. He sure looks the same as the one who filled Argent's teeth (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0588.html).

The colors of the walls and floor are the same, too...so perhaps there is only one dentist in the stick-verse, like there are only two lawyers (not counting Celia).

[Ridureyu]

I'm just saying, the forum was a veritable tidal wave of "LAURIN IS AN INVINCIBLE MURDERTANK" for weeks on end... and now the consensus has changed 100% to nearly calling her a pacifist.

[t209]

Good to see the Asian Dentist in Azure City since this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0588.html).

[Kish]

Contingency works by activating another spell when certain conditions are met. In this case, I believe the consensus is that Miron set Contingency to activate a Teleport spell when he was below a certain amount of hit points.
Nitpick: I'm not signing off on the activation condition you have there. Something like "if I take over 50 points of damage in one round" strikes me as least as likely.

[Seward]

How did we go from "Laurin is an invincible, inexhaustable OP powerhouse" to "Laurin is a wuss who can't hurt anybody?"

Because she's a Psion. They look like invincible, inexhaustible OP Powerhouses until they run out of points. Then they're d4, half-bab wusses.

Laurin, being a successful Psion, left before she became rather like V in an antimagic field.

Her power mix was pretty much classic battlefield control (including disintegrate...my sorceress used it only for making holes in walls, I suspect Lauren has it for a similar reason) and transport. I would totally play a character with only the powers we saw in a party similar to Team Tarquin.

When you have Jacinda, Tarquin and presumably Shoulder Pad Guy in the party, no damage you can do will exceed putting the three of them next to whatever it is you want dead, and if your typical teammate is Jacinda (as it is currently) then having a lot of stun or hold type effects means Jacinda gets to sneak attack/full-attack with melee or with range, as is convenient.

[Liliet]

Laurin is an invincible, inexhaustible powerhouse wuss who won't hurt anybody. It all fits together, you see.

[Kish]

I'm just saying, the forum was a veritable tidal wave of "LAURIN IS AN INVINCIBLE MURDERTANK" for weeks on end... and now the consensus has changed 100% to nearly calling her a pacifist.
Both claims are goofy hyperbole. A few people were complaining and now at least one person is complaining. There was no tidal wave and there is no consensus.

[Liliet]

Both claims are goofy hyperbole. A few people were complaining and now at least one person is complaining. There was no tidal wave and there is no consensus.

Vocal minority has the power of screwing with people's minds by making them believe they're a majority :smallbiggrin:

[Rorrik]

Ah, ships that travel at the speed of plot.

Does this mean the Mechane involves Vorlon technology? Scoundrel hardly seems the type....

And yes, Scoundrel is The Most Interesting Man in the Campaign Setting. :smallcool:

Greek technology, actually: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechane
It carries the Deus Ex Machina and does indeed travel at the speed of plot.

Probably created by some deity of drama or goddess of the theatre (http://mindweaverpg.wordpress.com/2014/01/12/divine-artifact-the-mechane/).

This is the greatest thing I've seen in a while! The Mechane flies at the speed of plot. Bwahaha!

[Sir_Leorik]

"i must go home now. my planet needs me."

tarquin died on the way to his home planet

the end

Tarquin came from another planet? Since when does this campaign use "Spelljammer" rules? :smallconfused:

[Muenster Man]

"i must go home now. my planet needs me."

tarquin died on the way to his home planet

the end

It's good to know I wasn't the only one who thought of that to Liliet's suggestion :smallbiggrin:

[Ridureyu]

Both claims are goofy hyperbole. A few people were complaining and now at least one person is complaining. There was no tidal wave and there is no consensus.

Is this like when people claim that nobody ever thought Tarquin was a good man? ;-)

[Sir_Leorik]

And "optimization" means something different to each gamer. And "optimization" actually makes sense only in the context of the other people in your party and the type of campaign in which you are playing.

I'll just leave it there. This kind of theorycraft argument rages in every gaming forum that has ever existed. For OOTS, it would go like this.

<SNIP>

Seriously, this kind of party is absolutely typical of the kind of D&D parties most people play, even today, and especially in 3.0 where everybody was new to the entire game system.

It seems that their counterparts from the "Fourth Dimension" took an almost identical path to poor optimization.

Roy chose Tactical Warlord, which is a great Warlord build... in a party with a Defender. The 4E!OotS has no Defender, so Roy is stuck giving Belkar and Haley extra attacks.

Durkon seems to be splitting his Powers between Strength based melee attacks and Wisdom based Close and Area attacks, which is a sub-optimal choice for a melee Cleric.

Vaarsuvius seems to have gone with damaging attacks, like Lightning Bolt, rather than with Battlefield Control spells.

Belkar is playing a Two-Weapon Ranger, which is a great build, but he's clearly dumped his Wisdom and his Constitution score isn't that great either, judging by his hit point total.

That leaves Haley and Elan as the only optimized members of the 4E!OotS. Elan administers status penalties to enemies granting Combat Advantage, and Haley administers a Sneak Attack to seal the deal. Who knew that dumping the Chaotic Good Alignment in 4E could be so beneficial? :smallwink:

[DoctorIllithid]

I imagine the one regret the Giant has is not getting this strip out before the holiday season, that panel 3 could be made into a T-shirt. Or a mug.

[Caex]

It seems that their counterparts from the "Fourth Dimension" took an almost identical path to poor optimization.

Roy chose Tactical Warlord, which is a great Warlord build... in a party with a Defender. The 4E!OotS has no Defender, so Roy is stuck giving Belkar and Haley extra attacks.

Durkon seems to be splitting his Powers between Strength based melee attacks and Wisdom based Close and Area attacks, which is a sub-optimal choice for a melee Cleric.

Vaarsuvius seems to have gone with damaging attacks, like Lightning Bolt, rather than with Battlefield Control spells.

Belkar is playing a Two-Weapon Ranger, which is a great build, but he's clearly dumped his Wisdom and his Constitution score isn't that great either, judging by his hit point total.

That leaves Haley and Elan as the only optimized members of the 4E!OotS. Elan administers status penalties to enemies granting Combat Advantage, and Haley administers a Sneak Attack to seal the deal. Who knew that dumping the Chaotic Good Alignment in 4E could be so beneficial? :smallwink:

But they were going to add Miko! Of course, 4e Miko is not a (Defender) Paladin but a (Striker) Avenger. That would leave them roughly with the same sub-optimal issue they faced with Belkar in the party, right?

[Muenster Man]

I imagine the one regret the Giant has is not getting this strip out before the holiday season, that panel 3 could be made into a T-shirt. Or a mug.

... Roy distributing potions? Or do you mean the fourth panel? He might run into copyright issues if he tries to sell that image on shirts or whatever, even if he's referencing the meme that it became rather than the commercial for the product. I dunno, I'm fuzzy on those kind of issues.

[Kish]

Is this like when people claim that nobody ever thought Tarquin was a good man? ;-)
No, this is like when people claim there was never a tidal wave of "Tarquin is a good man."

Theoretically speaking.

[Ridureyu]

With entire threads being hijacked by Tarquin defenders, I would say that yes, there was an overwhelming tidal wave.

Not as bad as the Miko fanclub, though...