Cue the Sun!: how can a character cause a sunrise?

[qwertyu63]

I have quite the challenge: cause an early sunrise. Any class/level of character is fine, but Epic Spellcasting is not allowed and I can't just wish for it. However, I would like it at as low a level as possible, and as a Druid if it can be done.

I realize this is a steep order, but I believe in you guys. Thank you in advance.

[CosmicOccurence]

Are you looking to cause the actual physical sun to rise? Or just an appearance of an early sunrise?

[qwertyu63]

Are you looking to cause the actual physical sun to rise? Or just an appearance of an early sunrise?

The former if possible (steep order, I know); however, the latter can work.

EDIT: For context, I am building Chibiterasu (from Okamiden).

[Grod_The_Giant]

"I Iron Heart Surge the night!"

[Rubik]

Ascend to alicorn princesshood?

[Jack_Simth]

Well, you might be able to arrange the appearance of it via the Daylight Spell (Druid-3) and a (rod) quickened Silent Image (or better: Persistent Image). Maybe a Druid-10/Contemplative-1 taking the Illusion domain. You'll need to figure out a little skill trickery (Contemplative requires 13 ranks of Knowledge(religion)), which Druids do not get as a class skill, but the Education feat (Player's Guide to Faerun) can deal with that.

[Invader]

Some sort of major illusion should suffice and be much easier than causing an actual early sunrise.

[Zman]

A Miracle cast by a Cleric of Pelor could be fitting.

[qwertyu63]

"I Iron Heart Surge the night!"

...no comment...


Ascend to alicorn princesshood?

And now we are mixing references.


Well, you might be able to arrange the appearance of it via the Daylight Spell (Druid-3) and a (rod) quickened Silent Image (or better: Persistent Image). Maybe a Druid-10/Contemplative-1 taking the Illusion domain. You'll need to figure out a little skill trickery (Contemplative requires 13 ranks of Knowledge(religion)), which Druids do not get as a class skill, but the Education feat (Player's Guide to Faerun) can deal with that.

This might work.


Some sort of major illusion should suffice and be much easier than causing an actual early sunrise.

Yeah, I know. I just like to aim high.


A Miracle cast by a Cleric of Pelor could be fitting.

Sadly, Pelor is not on the table. In fact, the character I am building is the local sun god (just rather weak). That is why I am trying to do this.

[Invader]

How early does it have to rise. Are there some time manipulation spells you could use to just speed up time a little bit so the sun rises early?

[nedz]

It depends upon the pantheon, but usually the Sun is a Chariot driven across the sky by some old hero/demi-god and so you just need to chivvy him along a bit. Of course the extra speed might make him dizzy, or the horses tired, causing the sun to misbehave somewhat. Later in the day it comes to a stop, or starts going in circles, or maybe just slows down — in any event everything will be back to normal the next day.

[Gemini476]

Sadly, Pelor is not on the table. In fact, the character I am building is the local sun god (just rather weak). That is why I am trying to do this.

Oh, you're building a god? That makes everything easier. Alter Reality is at-will superwish, for instance.
I'm unsure if there's any specific DSA to allow control over the sun, but I suspect not since D&D seems to assume that there are multiple sun deities running around. Having multiple gods wrestle over the sun is a pretty bad idea.

Terry Pratchett's Pyramids had such a scene, come to think of it. It wasn't pretty.

[Snowbluff]

Black holes and fit through gates. You can probably use gravity to pull the planet or sun around. You will wipe out the planet, though.


Ascend to alicorn princesshood?
#optimizingponies :P
Probably won't work. You need a sun cutie mark, which is one of thousands. If you get a moon, the best you can do is a lonely, cold, and eternal night.

[Rubik]

You could always open a portal (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4drucg1A6Xk) to whatever side of the planet the sun is on at the moment.

[unseenmage]

You could pull a Gandalf vs the Trolls and slow time around the parties involved. (At least that's how I guessed he did it when I first read The Hobbit as a kid. :smallsmile:)

Perhaps via some sort of Planar Bubble and a slow time plane perhaps?

[qwertyu63]

Oh, you're building a god? That makes everything easier. Alter Reality is at-will superwish, for instance.
I'm unsure if there's any specific DSA to allow control over the sun, but I suspect not since D&D seems to assume that there are multiple sun deities running around. Having multiple gods wrestle over the sun is a pretty bad idea.

Terry Pratchett's Pyramids had such a scene, come to think of it. It wasn't pretty.

I'm not using the divine rank rules. I have some homebrew stuff meant to replace the divine rank system. SDA's are not in play here.


You could pull a Gandalf vs the Trolls and slow time around the parties involved. (At least that's how I guessed he did it when I first read The Hobbit as a kid. :smallsmile:)

Perhaps via some sort of Planar Bubble and a slow time plane perhaps?

That could work (and with minimal screwing up of the rest of the world), except I can't choose the plane I make a bubble of.

[unseenmage]

That could work (and with minimal screwing up of the rest of the world), except I can't choose the plane I make a bubble of.

I was pretty sure there were like three or four ways to access other planar effects.

I stopped researching them when I realized I'd have to tear holes in planar fabrics and cosmologies to use Eberron stuff in my Faerun campaign though.

There were two sets of spells, Planar Bubble IIRC, and the Planar Breach spell chain.

Then I thought there was a mantle or a class or something that wasn't as versatile as the spells.

Then there was the simple act of using Genesis to make a fast/slow time demiplane and combining that with the Acorn of Far Travel spell and Feather Token: Tree with something else to make yourself be considered constantly under your oak tree which is on your demiplane.

My apologies for the above not being as clear and concise as it could be. Like I said, I stopped researching it halfway through and didn't keep my notes. Here's hoping it sparks the memories of another poster or gives you someplace to start from though.

[Eldan]

Ask your DM what the sun actually is or does in your campaign? If it's an actual star with planets orbiting it, this is near impossible. If it's something of the "ball of gold pushed by beetle" or "burning chariot" variety, there might be things you can do.

[Larkas]

Uhhhhh... Travel eastward?

[qwertyu63]

I was pretty sure there were like three or four ways to access other planar effects.

I stopped researching them when I realized I'd have to tear holes in planar fabrics and cosmologies to use Eberron stuff in my Faerun campaign though.

There were two sets of spells, Planar Bubble IIRC, and the Planar Breach spell chain.

Then I thought there was a mantle or a class or something that wasn't as versatile as the spells.

Then there was the simple act of using Genesis to make a fast/slow time demiplane and combining that with the Acorn of Far Travel spell and Feather Token: Tree with something else to make yourself be considered constantly under your oak tree which is on your demiplane.

My apologies for the above not being as clear and concise as it could be. Like I said, I stopped researching it halfway through and didn't keep my notes. Here's hoping it sparks the memories of another poster or gives you someplace to start from though.

I'm now book diving after this idea. I'll keep you posted.


Ask your DM what the sun actually is or does in your campaign? If it's an actual star with planets orbiting it, this is near impossible. If it's something of the "ball of gold pushed by beetle" or "burning chariot" variety, there might be things you can do.

There's no DM here, we're trying to accomplish something. In all seriousness though, I'm the DM. I just like to play by the rules (no fun in just hand waving things).

As for how the sun works, I've no idea. I had not devoted any thought to that. I'd prefer realism, but I can dive into the myth pool.


Uhhhhh... Travel eastward?

Yeah, that won't help.

[Segev]

How early are we talking? Time Hop, the 3rd level psion/wilder power, can delay the target(s) for a number of rounds. That would be one way to "hasten the rising of the sun."

A pair of Ring Gates and a (really) high-flying familiar or other assistant could carry one up high enough that the shadow of the planet is not blocking the sun, and the other then shines that light through it.

A mirror of mental prowess could simply scry the sun itself.

A Daylight spell coupled with a Turn/Destroy undead might get most of the salient functions.

[Chronos]

Get a good watch and astronomical tables, and then seconds before it would have risen anyway, intone dramatically "Sun, I command you to rise!".

[Eldan]

As for how the sun works, I've no idea. I had not devoted any thought to that. I'd prefer realism, but I can dive into the myth pool.

It would make things much easier. For an actual star, your options to actually make the sun rise would be to move the planet, turn the planet on its axis, move the sun, change the properties of light or time travel. Probably not going to happen.

If the sun is moved by a personalized force of some kind, you can talk to it or bribe it. Or go on a quest for it.

[Big Fau]

If the sun in your DM's cosmology is a part of the Elemental Plane of Fire you can cast Gate and simulate it.

[Grod_The_Giant]

There's no DM here, we're trying to accomplish something. In all seriousness though, I'm the DM. I just like to play by the rules (no fun in just hand waving things).

As for how the sun works, I've no idea. I had not devoted any thought to that. I'd prefer realism, but I can dive into the myth pool.
You're pretty much going to have to go for some sort of "the Sun is carried through it's orbit," I think-- given that you're trying to make a sun god as opposed to some wizard's hack, whatever method you use will need to be both reliable and unobtrusive. But if we're talking about a solar vehicle of some sort? Off the top of my head, you could use Craft Wondrous Item to make a flying cart, and Awaken some dire eagles to pull it

[Urpriest]

So how in general do the gods in your system control things? It seems like this would be a much more general problem.

[Captnq]

I actually came up with the solution a while ago.

You need a 195th level psionist.

He uses Time hop on THE PLANET (you need 195 pp to do it). The planet disappears for about 30 seconds. Everything else, everything on the planet, the air, the buildings, everything, just sort of float in space. Unlike the real world, physics doesn't apply. There is no "air pressure" so the air doesn't spread out in an explosive burst. Everyone just kind of drifts there.

Now, with no planet, there is no "night". You have direct access to the sun for 5 rounds. Then the planet comes back in the only open space it will fit (inside the ring of air and floating stuff), and everything is back to normal. Maybe a little off center, drifted about a bit, maybe, but I'm sure everything will be fine.

Mostly.

[Captnq]

Or...

You change your cosmology.

The sun is actually a giant jester who is juggling the planets of your solar system. As mortals, you cannot see him and they "percieve" him as the sun. So you up your game, go fourth dimensional, talk to the juggling sun god, and ask him to give the planet a little "english".

[almightycoma]

step 1 mime lasso motion.
step 2 throw imaginary lasso around sun.
step 3 pull really hard

[Captnq]

I'm serious about the time hop thing. You just need psionic Death Knell and about 200 odd sacrifices of about 10 HD each. You need to murder them all REALLY REALLY fast, but you could get your ML level up high enough if you timed it right.

[Rubik]

I actually came up with the solution a while ago.

You need a 195th level psionist.

He uses Time hop on THE PLANET (you need 195 pp to do it). The planet disappears for about 30 seconds. Everything else, everything on the planet, the air, the buildings, everything, just sort of float in space. Unlike the real world, physics doesn't apply. There is no "air pressure" so the air doesn't spread out in an explosive burst. Everyone just kind of drifts there.Are you sure (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16659870&postcount=37) that was you? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16664571&postcount=61)


Now, with no planet, there is no "night". You have direct access to the sun for 5 rounds. Then the planet comes back in the only open space it will fit (inside the ring of air and floating stuff), and everything is back to normal. Maybe a little off center, drifted about a bit, maybe, but I'm sure everything will be fine.

Mostly.Given how fast the planet is spinning (assuming it's Earth-like), everything gets flung so far off that it basically destroys everything. As in, not only does the centrifugal inertia fling everything off really, really hard near the equator, but all the stuff on the planet will move so far that the Earth will be about 14,000 miles behind where everything else is.

Oh, and I think your math is off, unless my source for the size of the planet is wrong. It takes a minimum of 125 MLs to Time Hop the Earth, I believe, which means the planet is gone for a minimum of 125 rounds (or 12.5 minutes).

[Raven777]

Play Pathfinder. Make friend with a 10th rank Mythic Vampire (they're cuddly). Have him or her turn off the sun (I kid you not, they can do that). Have him or her cancel the eclipse on demand as a standard action.

[XmonkTad]

A Wall of Force anchored in space could be placed in the orbital path of the Earth.

If you're really crazy, create a small planetoid near the sun (lava works) and start it spinning really fast. Then create a very long Wall of Force and anchor it to the planetoid. If you aim it right, you can now use your WoF like a pinball flipper to smack the sun to the right side of the planet. Requires a VERY high level WoF so Zodar/Lillitu shapechage cheese may be required.

Would a warhulking hurler with fire immunity be able to throw the sun?

[OverdrivePrime]

All you need is a mid-level bard with crazy high charisma and a horse. Have him finish a difficult encounter at night, preferably one where the fate of the town was on the line.

When you want the sun to rise, have the bard say some self-effacing words of encouragement, kiss the prettiest woman in town (or handsomest man, depending on story needs), then stoically turn away and ride off into the east.

Cue instant dawn.



This works for summoning dusk as well, but you need to finish the encounter during the day and then ride westward out of town.

[tzar1990]

I'd be in favor of using two portals, high in the sky and right close together (so that with the glare, it looks like one thing).

The first portal should link to the Elemental Plane of Fire - and not just any part, either. We're talking the heart of the plane. We're talking the place where the heat is so dense it's practically solid. We're talking somewhere that would make frickin' fire elementals say "****, that's hot!". There'll probably be some sort of elder elemental / fiery god up in there, but that's part of the fun.

The second portal should link to the positive energy plane, once again in the most intense part of it that you can find.

The end result will be a giant ball of heat and light in the sky, warming everything nearby and searing the undead, but bringing feelings of health and comfort to the people watching. It wouldn't last long - 17 to 20 rounds at most, depending on the caster level of the gate spell - but that's one or two minutes of sunlight. And if the sun in your cosmology works the same way that it does in Pathfinder's, it would arguably qualify as real sunlight for most purposes.

The hard part here is setting it up - unless you're a really high-level cleric, you're gonna need to adventure to get the two Scrolls of Gate needed to open the portal. Next, you're gonna need to conduct adventures on the planes of Fire and Positive Energy, in order to find the locations, and convince whatever critters are lurking there not to come through and devour the delicious world below.

You up to the task?

Edit: If you're gonna do it this way, you kinda sorta might wanna get Reach Spell on your gates somehow, because otherwise a CL17 gate has a max range of 270 feet, which might be a wee bit close to comfort. I'd suggest metamagic rods - one capable of sticking Reach on a gate spell is only 24,500 GP to buy, which is expensive, but not crushingly so.

[(Un)Inspired]

You could just cast temporal stasis on everyone then dispel it when it's sunrise.

[Sith_Happens]

All you need is a mid-level bard with crazy high charisma and a horse. Have him finish a difficult encounter at night, preferably one where the fate of the town was on the line.

When you want the sun to rise, have the bard say some self-effacing words of encouragement, kiss the prettiest woman in town (or handsomest man, depending on story needs), then stoically turn away and ride off into the east.

Cue instant dawn.

This works for summoning dusk as well, but you need to finish the encounter during the day and then ride westward out of town.

Thread over.

[cakellene]

"I Iron Heart Surge the night!"

I'm more of an old school fan.

I Magic Missile the darkness.

[Spore]

For the player of said god - in the video game - it works something like this: He paints a sun into the sky and it appears. To not distort local day-night schedules, I would really say, time travel is the only option.

Overuse (http://awkwardzombie.com/index.php?page=0&comic=070113) of physical sunrising powers would cause problems.

[tzar1990]

Okay, I'm gonna look at the math for the two-gate scenario I posted a bit above. The following assumes

Two Scrolls of Gate: 9000 (assuming CL20)
Two Greater Metamagic Rods of Reach: 49000 GP
Both gates are activated simultaneously, and both are held open for as long as possible.

The character pulling this off is a divine caster, probably a cleric. Therefore, we don't need to worry about UMD shenanigans - your Wisdom modifier is good enough you don't need to worry about scroll mishaps, so you can just keep trying to activate the first scroll until you get it to work.

The first Scroll of Gate isn't actually used on creating the gate itself - it's used to summon your second caster. Normally, I'd say to go for a Solar - they're badarse, thematically appropriate, and can cast as a 20th level cleric. However, the default ones in the Bestiary don't have Gate prepared as a Cleric spell or a spell-like ability.

So we keep looking, and sure enough, there are things that can. The first one I found is the Pleroma Aeon, in the Bestiary II. It has 24 hit dice, so even the CL17 gate can get it, and it's listed as having Gate prepared as a cleric spell. It has hands to use the Rod with, and it's beautiful, so you're not violating the appropriate aesthetic. Plus, it's alignment is True Neutral, and they're explicitly noted as not bearing grudges, so you won't get screwed over by alignment restrictions or the thing coming back for revenge after it's all done. This costs an extra 10,000 GP to summon the critter.

When you summon it, hand it one of the rods, and tell it to ready an action. When you successfully cast your gate, it will cast its gate straight up, oriented pointing towards the ground, using the metamagic rod and placing the gate at the highest point possible. Don't worry about wording too much, though - the Aeon can read your mind and know your exact intention.

Knowing the abilities of the Aeon is a DC30 Knowledge: The Planes check, which you should be able to make trivially if you take 20 on your roll, especially if you have access to a library or any Int bonus.

The total cost of this operation comes out to 68,000 GP total, although you can shave a lot off of this if you cut the metamagic rods and use smaller gates closer to the ground - just note that it will be less impressive that way. This puts it a little under the WBL of an 11th level character - a 7th level character, meanwhile, can afford the no-rod version at only 19000 GP.


If you're using 3.5, you'll want to summon a Titan (MM1), since they have Gate as a SLA 1/day. The cost of 2 scrolls of Gate comes out to be 17650, meaning you'd need to have 7th or 8th level WBL to afford the no-rod version. Also, Titans can be any chaotic alignment, so you might wanna see if you can make sure to summon a Good aligned one rather than having a high-CR Chaotic Evil creature annoyed with you.

[Khatoblepas]

A Warhulking Hurler with Mantle of the Firey Spirit could pick up and throw the sun, right? (Or alternatively pick up the sun and run with it across the sky)

In a "Sun Revolves around the Earth" setting, that might work. It's no stag beetle, but...

[Valwyn]

Well, you obviously need ranks in Craft (Painting). :smallbiggrin:

Are you using Druid or Spirit Shaman? I think the latter might be more fitting and the pseudo-spontaneous system it uses could represent better Chibi's repeated uses of the celestial brush techniques.

Have you considered researching a spell? Make it a conjuration that summons sunlight. It won't be an actual sunrise, but remember that Chibi is still young, he isn't as powerful as Ammy.

Mind you, I don't remember much of the game since I only watched an LP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_0Gd81-hRU).

[Segev]

I'm serious about the time hop thing. You just need psionic Death Knell and about 200 odd sacrifices of about 10 HD each. You need to murder them all REALLY REALLY fast, but you could get your ML level up high enough if you timed it right.

And thus we learn why Aztecs sacrificed hearts every morning.

[Rubik]

And thus we learn why Aztecs sacrificed hearts every morning.A new, and very incriminating, view on how Celestia Rules Equestria with an iron hoof.

She's also known as Pelor in other places.

[Captnq]

I GOT IT!

You need a wall. It actually won't have to be that big. But you will need it to appear on the horizon, or this could get messy.

Marvelous Pigments
These magic emulsions enable their possessor to create actual, permanent objects simply by depicting their form in two dimensions. The pigments are applied by a stick tipped with bristles, hair, or fur. The emulsion flows from the application to form the desired object as the artist concentrates on the desired image. One pot of marvelous pigments is sufficient to create a 1,000-cubic-foot object by depicting it two-dimensionally over a 100-square-foot surface.

Only normal, inanimate objects can be created. Creatures can’t be created. The pigments must be applied to a surface. It takes 10 minutes and a DC 15 Craft (painting) check to depict an object with the pigments. Marvelous pigments cannot create magic items. Objects of value depicted by the pigments —precious metals, gems, jewelry, ivory, and so on— appear to be valuable but are really made of tin, lead, paste, brass, bone, and other such inexpensive materials. The user can create normal weapons, armor, and any other mundane item (including foodstuffs) whose value does not exceed 2,000 gp.

Items created are not magical; the effect is instantaneous.

Now, The sun is 4.623 x 10^21 cubic feet

You only need 4.623 x 10^18 jars of Marvelous Pigments and you could paint it on the wall. Now, nothing in the painting says it has to be up close. You could paint it far away. In effect, you are painting 1,000 cubic feet of "sun" per jar. You just need a way to throw each jar on the same wall at the same time while thinking, "SUN!" and you'll have a sun. Of course it will be a second sun, not the original.

I... don't want to even think about what will happen because the sun will have no angular momentum and will most likely fall straight for the original sun, hit it, and chances are that sort of thing will be BAD for the entire solar system.

But I'm not the sort to worry about that sort of thing. You wanted a sun rise, well, there you go.

You only need:

GP: 1.849 x 10^22
XP: 3.699 x 10^20
Creation Time
Days: 1.849 x 10^19
Years: 50,660,000,000,000,000

Or aprox 3,700,000 times longer then the age of our universe.

I suggest you get someone to help you. Many hands lighten a load!

[TiaC]

There is no official size category greater than colossal, therefore the planet is size colossal. Boost your CL to 32 and cast animate objects. Then, cast teleport to move the planet out of the way.

[qwertyu63]

Well, you obviously need ranks in Craft (Painting). :smallbiggrin:

Are you using Druid or Spirit Shaman? I think the latter might be more fitting and the pseudo-spontaneous system it uses could represent better Chibi's repeated uses of the celestial brush techniques.

Have you considered researching a spell? Make it a conjuration that summons sunlight. It won't be an actual sunrise, but remember that Chibi is still young, he isn't as powerful as Ammy.

Mind you, I don't remember much of the game since I only watched an LP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_0Gd81-hRU).

Yeah, I'm just going to make up a spell and call it a day.

Also, I've never played it either, just watched that exact LP.

[nedz]

The world is mainly ocean
The land is just a vessel moving through the ocean
Water Elementals (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elemental.htm#waterElemental) can slow vessels moving through water
Summon a large Water Elemental


You need one with a lot of HD — 20' length per HD to slow the land down

[Necroticplague]

I think a planar Shepard could do a short lived version. Make the plane their attuned to the quasi-plane of radiance, use their ability to create a planar bubble to create a tiny slice of the plane. Doesn't last forever, but lasts a pretty long time, during which pure light and warmth are emitted from the bubble. Plus, it releases positive energy, thus giving it anti undead effects, if you want that kind of association.

[Sith_Happens]

There is no official size category greater than colossal, therefore the planet is size colossal. Boost your CL to 32 and cast animate objects. Then, cast teleport to move the planet out of the way.

Or just order it to turn faster.

[SassyQuatch]

Invoke Michael Bay. Everything will be sunset always. Do a quick time reverse and the sun starts to rise. Simple.

As long as you don't ask Bay to speak. He'll just stammer for a bit then leave you in the lurch.

[TiaC]

Cast a Delayed Polymorph Any Object on a lit torch.

Cast Teleport Object to place it one AU overhead.

The Polymorph Any Object takes effect and turns the torch into a new sun with permanent duration. (PaO only has restrictions on the starting size of the object.)

[TheIronGolem]

Fog Cloud, followed by Dancing lights a few feet up in the air, just far enough away to be visible through the fog.

Foggy Morning Sunrise Scam pulled off at level 3! Achievement Unlocked!

Also good for convincing people you've suddenly arrived in San Francisco.

[Kerilstrasz]

you need the actual sun or sun light????

you could (as god) using "mortal magic" empower by your "godness" to have sunrays reach any point of planet surface...

go up in space, place Huuuge panels of mirror polished silver in orbit.
have them through permancied triggers to align at any given time in such way as to reflect sun at the spot you want. Have them all go invisible (thus not reflecting) whenever you don't need em.

that's the idea.. i ll leave the technical stuff to you :)

[unseenmage]

Was just reading through Power of Faerun and found an epic spell that does just this on page 60; Amaunator's Eternal Sun.

[Rubik]

Yeah, I'm just going to make up a spell and call it a day.I see what you did there.