Ur-Priest/Void Disciple Build Help

[MidgetMarine]

Hey GitP, after several months of not doing so, I am headed into a new D&D campaign. We're likely to be starting somewhere between level 1-5, and after some consideration I've decided I wanted to play a Void Disciple/Ur-Priest.
Having not designed a character in a while, I wanted to see if everything checked out. I'll include a link to the spreadsheet below, and I'd love to hear some tips or suggestions

Notes: Not all feats are included, I've only included pre-reqs.
Spells before the slash are bard spells. The number in brackets indicates how many I know.
The number after the slash are my Ur-Priest spells.

Here's a link to the google document, I'd love to hear what you have to say.
http://bit.ly/1avBywV

Cheers, Midgetmarine.

[Rebel7284]

I love the flavor, but honestly, it's lacking in power. The lost caster levels put you behind a normal cleric in casting (and Ur Priest get fewer spells per day too.)

Of course getting a super divination ability is cool, but... how will that actually work in execution? That's a lot of work for a DM to give you all magical effects within 1000 miles for example. :P

Giving your allies feats and skills can be super useful and Moment of Prescience is powerful, but at the cost of 5 levels of spellcasting progression?

What do you want this guy to do (besides being totally badass?) perhaps there are ways to accomplish that without losing quite as much spellcasting progression?

[MidgetMarine]

The hope was to make a combat capable caster who focused more on support, but didn't end up lacking when it came to damage.

If forced to choose between the two prestige classes, I'd probably have to side with Void Disciple.
But the flavour of the two, as you mentioned, is so cool.

EDIT: To clarify, if void disciple gets in the way of casting power so much so that I can't pull this off, I'd be willing to scrap it. But I like the idea behind this build.

[ExcessiveFarce]

I can't blame you for wanting a very flavorful character, so rather than dissuade you from Void Disciple, I have some suggestions for getting a bit more mileage out of your proposed character.

I'll start by noting that Bard levels 4 and 5 are pretty weak: they don't grant any class features, level 4 does grant access to 2nd level spells that can also be accomplished via a prestige class. The Bardic Music breakpoints agree with us on this point, being Bard 3 and Bard 6, so Bard 3 is a good stopping point. Ur-Priest levels 2 and 3 are also rather poor, although admittedly rebuke undead can be useful, so let's mark down Ur-Priest 2 as our stopping point. (While rebuking as a level 5 cleric isn't incredible, there are a number of ways to gain sizeable bonuses to this check, so it's still an ability worth having.)

Assuming you agree with me thus far, the question becomes "what do we do with these levels?" Depending on your cheese tolerance, I suggest the following: three levels of paragnostic apostle. Through some early entry tricks (which can later be retrained for free at the rate of one feat per level as per player's handbook 2) you can acquire a few more minor spellcasting bonuses, buff your bardic knowledge, and improve your ability to rebuke undead. This sacrifices nothing but a few skill and hit points over the long-term.

I suggest the following tweak: Savage Bard 3 / Paragnostic Apostle 2 / Ur-Priest 2 / Paragnostic Apostle 1 / Void Disciple 12.

In order to qualify for Paragnostic Apostle that early, you'll need Heighten Spell, Earth Sense, Earth Spell, and either Sanctum Spell or Versatile Spellcaster (I tend to prefer Sanctum Spell, but to each his own) before hitting level 4. Two feats from levelups and one from being a human/azurin/strongheart halfling get us most of the way there, at which point we pay off our fourth feat with a flaw at character creation.

Two levels of paragnostic apostle are fine and dandy; they give us a pair of slick traits (I like spatial awareness and mind over matter) and make your bardic knowledge stronger. At character level 4, (bard 3 / apostle 1) you have the ability to cast 'real' second level spells, so we can start retraining those feats. Level 5 we retrain Earth Spell for Iron Will, and it's now apparent that we need a second flaw at character creation to have acquired spell focus evil.

Sixth level starts us on the path of the Ur-Priest while we retrain Earth Sense into Spell Penetration. The sixth level feat is open for your choice. Character level 7 brings us up to Savage Bard 3 / Paragnostic 2 / Ur-Priest 2, at which the (buffed via Paragnostic) ability to rebuke undead is gained. Character level 8 is another level of Paragnostic Apostle and gets us Penetrating Insight as a class feature, in addition to continuing to improve our Ur-Priest spellcasting and rebuking abilities (plus bardic knowledge.)

At character level 8 you qualify for Void Disciple and can finally retrain Sanctum Spell (since we are now meeting the 3rd level spells requirement of Paragnostic via our Ur-Priest casting). From this point out, it's pretty much indistinguishable from your proposed build.

In summation, you must take 2 flaws and be willing to retrain feats, but your bardic knowledge rolls improve to 12 + int from 5 + int, your turning/rebuking ability is as a 5th level cleric instead of a 3rd level cleric, and you've acquired a number of minor bonuses to your spellcasting. In exchange, you've lost 2 skill points and an average of 4 hit points.

[Rebel7284]

That seems too much effort for the marginal benefit of a few knowledge is power abilities (and having to give gold to the paragnostic assembly!) with early entry and retraining, I am sure better classes can be found.

I was going to suggest Spellthief 1 dip. Has great flavor with Ur Priest. Steal spells from spellcasters as well as deities. With Master Spellthief and full attacks you can steal a lot of spells.

You can always go Divine Metamagic [Persistent Spell], although with your lack of free feats that comes into play pretty late.

Edit:

Here is a build I have thought of with similar flavor and more flexibility/power at higher levels.

Savage Bard 4/Spellthief 1/Ur Priest 2/Void Disciple 3/Sublime Chord 1/Void Disciple 2 (advancing Sublime Chord)/Mystic Theurge 7

Feats:
Human. Versatile Spellcaster
1. Spell Focus Evil
3. Spell Penetration
Magical Location (Otyugh Hole): Iron Will
6. Heighten Spell
9. Master Spellthief
12. Free
15. Free
18. Free

Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten Spell lets you cast bard spells heightened to third level thus allowing you to qualify for both Void Disciple and Sublime Chord.

You get double 9s from the cleric, bard, and sorcerer/wizard spell lists, the best ability from Void Disciple (free feats!) and you still have access to Moment of Prescience as an arcane spell without Void Disciple 7 (Moment of Prescience also works for saves, which is nice!)

Edit2:

If you are allowed flaws from Unearthed Arcana, I would totally consider starting off as an old or venerable Kobold and taking the Dragonwraught feat for -4 Str +2 Dex -2 Con, +3 Int +3 Wis +3 Cha (or +2 to mental stats if you are old.) You need all the mental attributes.