Alif v2 vs Kalib Sutol (The Crowd Calls for Blood)

[OMG PONIES]

The crowd is in an uproar as the two contestants are brought into the arena and unshackled in their opposing corners. The gigantic gates behind each of them would usually close with a deafening din of metal and stone, but any sound the gates would make is drowned out by those seeking entertainment. Both of them knew to expect this, but actually experiencing it was something else entirely. As the two fighters prepare to defend their lives, Kalib is the first off the blocks! However, he doesn't see his opponent--just a raging snowstorm.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/9/tmk3.jpg

Initiative rolls (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16778636&postcount=936)

[Lord Ruby34]

A pox upon this wretched arena! Kalib swore in his head as he was dragged into the coliseum. It had seemed like such a wonderfully amusing spectacle when he had been sitting in that crowd, watching the blood of the gladiators flow. It was far different inside. The noise of the crowd made it hard to think, and raging fear nearly turned his legs to mush. He was going to die today, he knew it to his bones. Yet he couldn't give up. They had told him that if he impressed the crowd enough he might live. They were lying of course, but if their was the slightest chance, well, he had to try. Even of it only delayed the inevitable.

The chains came off, and Kalib darted foreword, drawing his bow from his back as he moved. It didn't matter that his opponent was invisible, he knew exactly where the man would be. He fired, hoping that his unaimed shot would strike true.

Move to E16 while drawing my bow and fire at square T1.
Hit on a one [roll0]
Attack: [roll1] vs. Flatfooted
Damage:[roll2] and make a DC 23 Fortitude save or take [roll3] Constitution Damage.

Let me know if anything invisible enters the range of Yarvith's mindsight.

[Piggy Knowles]

Some preliminary rolls just to get things started - sorry for the impending double post, just need to see the results of these rolls before my actions.

Activating my scroll this morning. DC 12 caster level check, DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a mishap if failure. By my reading the spell isn't actually lost unless with a mishap, so I should be able to try again.

CL check: [roll0]
Wisdom check: [roll1]

EDIT: And it's a moot point, as it was activated regardless.

[Piggy Knowles]

The arrow disappears into the swirling winds and snow, and somewhere deep within the blustery snow, you hear a sharp cry of pain.

If you strain your ears just right, you can hear a few muttered words come across the arena. Then, the stormcloud itself begins to move, edging closer and closer to Kalib Sutol.

Forgot to pre-roll temp HP, so here it is now: [roll0]

STANDARD: Cast entropic shield.
MOVE: Move to P2.

Not an action: Identify Kalib Sutol.
If he's a construct, dragon, magical beast or undead: [roll1]
If he's an aberration, ooze, humanoid, animal, fey, giant, monstrous humanoid, plant, vermin, outsider or elemental: [roll2]

I'm going to hold off on adjusting my Con score on my sheet until I find out if the Constitution damage is poison-based, as I am immune to poison.


The cloud grows closer, moving about twenty feet west.

Fort save: [roll3] (might have other modifiers depending on the type of effect)

What kind of an effect was the Constitution damage? In particular, was it poison? I need to know before I adjust my character sheet.

Alif cast some spell and moved to P2.
It was entropic shield.

[Lord Ruby34]

Kalib smiled as he heard the cry of pain, then quickly frowned when he realized that meant his opponent wasn't dead. No other choice but to move foreword and finish it. Still, to couldn't hurt to be cautious. It never hurt to be cautious.

Kalib's eyes flashed as he advanced.

Move to E10
Manifest Synchronicity.
End Turn
Forgive slow posting, I'm on a tablet with only one tab available.
Let me know if anything comes within 30 ft of Kalib.

[Piggy Knowles]

The stormcloud continues to move west, edging slightly closer to Kalib. Now the whirling, blinding snow is only a few strides away from where Kalib stands, and he can feel the first hint of the biting cold to follow.

There are no more noises from that terrible maelstrom, but up above, just at the edge of the cloud, a dark shadow appears, its form stark against the white snow. Silent as the night, it flies down to the lone figure of Kalib, its grasping hand extended.

Snowstorm moves slightly south and about another twenty feet or so west. Still not engulfing Kalib, but it's close now.

Shadow appears in H8, 20' in the air (this places it above the snowcloud's radius). It flies down to F9 one square still in the air, charging Kalib with a touch attack.

Touch Attack: [roll0]
--Crit confirmation, if necessary: [roll1]
Strength Damage: [roll2]
--Crit damage, if necessary: [roll3]


Alif moves to L3 and uses a spell-like ability.



This concludes Alif's turn.

[Lord Ruby34]

OOC: Exactly how far is the edge of the snowstorm from Kalib?

[Piggy Knowles]

OOC: Its outer edge is H7 (ie, H7 is in the snow and G8 is not) and from where you stand appears to be a hemisphere.

[Lord Ruby34]

Kalib is too quick for the shadow. Even as it charges him he moves, disappearing into the snow.

Kalib moves as the shadow charges, ending in H7. My turn then begins, but I need to talk with our DM first.

What information is Yarvith's getting from Mindsight.

Also Knowlegde Devotion Roll for the Shadow, Religion: [roll0]
Not activating Collecter of Stories
Yarvith's aid another check on the Know devotion roll [roll1], good for a plus two on the check if he can hit a ten.

What does Kalib know about Shadows?
Edit: What does Yarvith know of Shadows?

[OMG PONIES]

Pausing for DM post. Expect it by tomorrow.

[OMG PONIES]

The cloud of snow moves toward Kalib, who seems to be biding his time and carefully manifesting his psionic powers.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/600/en85.jpg

@Lord Ruby34:
Your attack in Round 1 could not be made, as ranged attacks require line of sight. While your psicrystal's rocking mindsight, that's only out to 30 ft. Thus, you don't have line of sight and can't attack T1 in round 1. When it comes to synchronicity, you need to specify your readied action (just not the condition) unless the power is fully augmented. In that case you don't need to specify the condition or the action. Please be sure to indicate which it is and list your readied action when appropriate. The shadow might not even appear this round, but I wanted to clear up the use of the power.

@Piggy:
The attack in round 1 didn't hit you, since Kalib can't make a ranged attack against a square to which he lacks line of sight. Alif is able to identify the creature across the arena as a Fire Elf. Also, something I didn't catch in the last fight: how is the shadow taking a full round's worth of actions when summoned? It functions as Summon Monster, which has a 1 round casting time. Even if you go with the "SLAs are a standard action unless otherwise specified," I'd say this one covers casting time in "otherwise identical to the summon monster spells." The shadow is being summoned this round and will appear at the start of your next turn. Thoughts?
Pause please. Possible retcon in effect.

[Lord Ruby34]

@ Ponies
I made an attack against Alif's square in round one, which is thought gave me fifty percent miss chance but still let me fire. As for Syncronity, my adores is at ML 3, which means it is always fully augmented and I don't have to specify the action I ready, effectively letting me take my standard action at any point on Alif's turn.

[Piggy Knowles]

@OMG PONIES

I was going by the ruling on Rules Compendium p118, which is that they act as the spell in question, but the casting time is 1 round unless otherwise specified, or if the casting time of the original spell is less than 1 round (fourth paragraph in the section on SLAs):



Usually, a spell-like ability works just the spell of that name...

Using a spell-like ability takes 1 standard action and provokes attacks of opportunity unless otherwise noted. If the spell-like ability duplicates a spell that has a casting time of less than 1 standard action, the spell-like ability has that casting time.

It doesn't mention any such provision for SLAs duplicating spells with longer than one round casting time.

As always, however, I'm fine with however you'd like to rule it.

As for actions said summoned creature could take on the round it is summoned, the only reference I could find to summons spells that take less than the one round to cast was on the Rapid Summoning wizard ability (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#rapidSummoning):


Any time a conjurer using this variant casts a summon monster spell, its casting time is 1 standard action rather than 1 full round. (Creatures so summoned can only take a standard action in the round they are summoned.)

If you DO decide that the SLA is a standard action, rather than a round, then I'd be fine defaulting to that (one standard on the round summoned). I mistakenly thought that provided the option of a partial charge, but from reviewing it, I see it's only a standard action, meaning that I couldn't have had my shadow charge Kalib regardless.

Again, just let me know how you'd like it ruled and I'll adjust my actions past and future accordingly. Thanks!

[OMG PONIES]

@Lord Ruby34
On the dorje, that's fine--please just be sure to include the fact that it's always augmented to ML 3 in your spoilers so I know you don't need to specify your action.

In regards to the attack in round 1, it doesn't matter whether you're targeting a creature or a square; if you can't see it you can't make a ranged attack against it.


Ranged Weapons: With a ranged weapon, you can shoot or throw at any target that is within the weapon's maximum range and in line of sight.

On the ability Alif is using "The snow obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet."

The spell is obscuring snow.

Do you have any abilities that overrides the need of line of sight to make ranged attacks?

@Piggy Knowles:
Good points all. The shadow takes a standard action to summon and is thus limited to a standard action on its "turn." Thus, the shadow can do a partial charge:


If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move action on your turn.

Basically, ignore me :smalltongue:. The shadow acts as above, though it only takes a standard action to do so.

[Lord Ruby34]

@Ponies
I didn't see that, I went back and read the concealment rules before I attacked, I didn't think to check the ranged weapon rules. In that case I'd have round one simply be a double move to I12.

Edit: Or have Kalib's arrow whiff. Whichever is easier to work with.

[OMG PONIES]

@Lord Ruby34:
Double move it is. Keep your expendable resources. You identify this creature as a shadow--an undead being capable of sapping an enemy's strength!

Though Kalib can't tell exactly why, the snowstorm in the corner of the arena begins to move towards him. Alif summons forth a vile undead creature that Kalib easily recognizes as a shadow, and the being begins to swoop down towards him. As it does, the psionic man's mind springs into action! He moves into the edge of the snowstorm, concealing himself from the shadow's attack. Rather than swooping down to Kalib's former position, the creature floats downward toward where Kalib entered the snow. As it hovers, Kalib enters its field of vision and it lashes out at him. While the snow serves to obscure him somewhat, the shadow's touch still connects and saps Kalib's strength.

Miss chance roll (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16787695&postcount=950)

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/33/bp4y.jpg

Unpause. Kalib's readied action triggers when the shadow moves. Readied actions are deemed to occur before the action that triggers them, thus the shadow can still take a standard action to partial charge straight down after Kalib's readied action resolves.

[Lord Ruby34]

@PONIES
My move action was originally intended to take me as far into the snow as possible. If I was closer to the snow I would head farther into it, which should stop the shadow from knowing square Kalib is in. I think. I don't have an easy way to check the srd right now.

[OMG PONIES]

@Lord Ruby34:
Even without a retcon for additional movement, you had the ability to move further into the snow than H7 in your Synchronicity action. That you stated the square specifically makes me uncomfortable about any additional retcons. We will continue as stated above.

[Lord Ruby34]

@PONIES
Understood. I thought the snow was restricting my movement.actually, that's something I should know now. Is the snow restricting my movement or slowing me down?

[OMG PONIES]

@Lord Ruby34:
It doesn't slow you down, but you wouldn't be able to run through it since running requires line of sight. Creatures 5 ft away can be seen, but have 20% concealment. Creatures farther away cannot be seen and thus have 50% (total) concealment.

[Lord Ruby34]

Kalib winced as he felt his strength fade away, then simply vanished, reappearing deeper in the swirling snows.

@PONIES
Activate anklet, teleport to J7. Can Yarvith sense Alif?
Turn not complete.

[OMG PONIES]

@Lord Ruby34:
Yarvith can sense Alif. He tells you that Alif is a humanoid in L3. INT score 10. Please note, while Yarvith can see Alif telepathically and relay that information to Kalib, Kalib still cannot see him and does not have line of sight to him. Thus, you still cannot attack him with ranged attacks.

[Lord Ruby34]

Darkness fell. One instant there was light, and the next there was not.

Standard: Casting Control Light, blacking out 27 ten foot cubes. Lasts 6 minutes, power points used 1.

D through S 1-4 (16 cubes)
E through R 5-6 (7 cubes)
K-N 7-8 (4 cubes)

Move: Move to K3, drawing Rapier, and seeing Alif.
Knowledge Devotion: [roll0] Using Collecter of Stories (Can't find the action, assuming free. If it's not subtract five from the roll.
Yarvith's Aid Another: [roll1] If he hits a ten Kalib gets a plus two.

Knowledge Devotion at +5

Alif should be unable to see unless he has darkvison, and will have the blinded condition.
Turn Complete.

[Piggy Knowles]

OOC: What square were you in when you began manifesting?

[Lord Ruby34]

OOC: J7, Sorry. I put it in a spoiler with something for Ponies.

[Piggy Knowles]

Blinded by the sudden darkness, Alif calls out to his shadow. It drifts through the snow, ghost-like, to hover above his head.

"Warn me of any others, shade," Alif whispers. "And drain the life from them." Somewhere in the darkness, Alif grins a terribly, icy grin.

Free action: speak to my shadow, which has darkvision, telling it where I am and instructing it to fly just above my head. If it sees anyone, it is to warn me (it can't speak intelligibly, but any sign will do) and attack.

It is in L3, 5' above me, so it should threaten all the squares adjacent to me. Does it see anything?

This does not conclude my turn.

[Piggy Knowles]

OOC: Just poking the beehive to make sure things are still buzzing... awaiting a response as to whether my shadow detects anyone adjacent to me before I proceed with my turn.

[OMG PONIES]

OOC: Still buzzing and on schedule. Expect updates Tues/Thurs/Sat. Anything more frequent than that is a luxury I may not always have.

@Lord Ruby34:
A few quick things:
Due to the blinding snow, you must make a DC 15 Concentration check to manifest the power.
I may be doing my math wrong, but I think you can create 27 10-ft cubes of darkness, rather than 28 (9+(6*3)). Did I miss something? Either way, you've listed 29 squares in your breakdown; please correct.
Please keep in mind that you must concentrate on the power for it to stay in effect, to a maximum of 6 minutes. This will require a DC 15 Concentration check as a standard action each round.

Did I miss anything?

@Piggy Knowles:
Your shadow provokes an AoO from Kalib, but it sees him in K3. In getting there, he provoked an AoO from Alif...I think. I can't find anything about blinded characters not threatening any squares; if I'm right you'd have 50% miss chance on an AoO but are still entitled to one.

Pause. Need a bit of clarification on some mapping things before the action continues.

[Piggy Knowles]

@OMG
I assumed no AoO because I wouldn't have been aware of his movement in order to take one, if I have the blinded condition as per Lord Ruby's post. I figured I'd need to know an AoO was triggered before I can take one. If that turns out to not be true, I'll 5 foot step to M4.

[OMG PONIES]

@Piggy:
Found the rules text I was missing before:

You can’t execute an attack of opportunity against an opponent with total concealment, even if you know what square or squares the opponent occupies.

So no 5-ft stepping for Alif, at least not yet...

[Lord Ruby34]

@PONIES

Didn't know that. Is it in the description of the spell or the concentration rules? If I missed it I apologize. 1d20=15
Yup, I miscounted. I'll fix it when I'm done with this post.
I'll Solicit Psicrystal next turn. I would have done so last turn, but I had already used my swift. Yarvith can concentrate for me.

[Piggy Knowles]

OOC: Looks like my questions are settled. Lord Ruby, are you still waiting on anything, or shall I continue with my round?

[Lord Ruby34]

OOC:I've got to fix something. Give me ten minutes, I'll edit this post when I'm done.

We're good.

[Piggy Knowles]

The shadow makes a terrible noise, like a scream in the dark. Then it reaches forward, grasping at Kalib Sutol.


The shadow moved past you on its approach to me, so as Ponies was so good to point out, you may take an AoO as it passes.

Shadow attacks!
Attack: [roll0]
--Crit Confirmation (if necessary): [roll1]
Damage: [roll2]
--Crit Damage (if necessary): [roll3]

Do you take the attack of opportunity on the shadow?

This does NOT conclude my actions.

[Lord Ruby34]

Kalib sees the shadow pass, but holds his strike. It would only be futile.

[Piggy Knowles]

Alif seems to constrict as he lowers his shoulders and utters a sharp word. Suddenly he disappears into the darkness and snow.

Quieter than a whisper, there is a new brush of coldness from behind you. Whirling around you see yet another shadowy face, almost invisible in the darkness. Its empty face seems to bore at you as it too reaches forward.


Alif disappears suddenly.

He is now in O7.


Behind you, another shadow appears (in J3) and immediately attacks.
Touch Attack: [roll0]
--Crit confirmation (if necessary): [roll1]
Strength Damage: [roll2]
--Crit damage (if necessary): [roll3]
Miss chance (1-20 misses): [roll4]



Used Anklets of Translocation to teleport to N4 as immediate action, move to O7 as a move action (this should just barely keep Kalib in the snow), summoned shadow as standard action, directed shadow to attack.


EDIT: This concludes my turn.

[OMG PONIES]

@Lord Ruby34:
Now it seems you've only listed 25 cubes. K7-N8 only costs 2 cubes, not 4.

[Lord Ruby34]

@Ponies
I've screwed up calculating this enough that I'm content to leave it. Is Alif in Yarvith's mindsight? If not what route did he take out of it?

Edit: Can Kalib see the shadows? If not where does Yarvith say they are?

Edit 2: Because you've ruled transparency I take it Dispel Psionics affects magical constructs and summons. An area spell that catches both shadows would then make a check against each individually, correct? Would their incorporeal affect that? Dispel Psionics isn't actually an abjuration after all, just modeled after one.

Edit 3: Can Telekinetic Thrust be used to attack separate targets with the different items?
Would thrusting someone up cause falling damage?

[OMG PONIES]

Kalib fills the arena with darkness as easily as Alif had filled it with snow. Kalib's psicrystal is still able to sense Alif's location and Alif's shadows are still able to see Kalib, but neither combatant is able to see the other without assistance. Similarly, the crowd is unable to see the fight and begins to hiss and boo. Luckily, the vendors swoop in with all sorts of magical devices available (for a fee, of course) to make the fight easier to see. Anyone who shells out the necessary coin sees Alif's shadows flanking Kalib and attempting to sap his strength. Both of them miss, however.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/59/imdk.jpg

Lord Ruby34, you're up.

[Lord Ruby34]

@Ponies
Inertial Armor makes my touch AC against incorporeal attacks 18. Both attacks miss.

I'd also like my questions about Dispel Psionics and Telekinetic Thrust answered before I continue.

[OMG PONIES]

@Lord Ruby 34:
So many questions, what, are you trying to survive or something? :smalltongue:

Sorry I missed the bit about inertial armor before, and I missed the other questions that were edited into the spoilers. Both shadows miss. Kalib can see both, though the one in the snow has 20% concealment on him (and vice versa). Alif is in Yarvith's Mindsight, hence his position on the map.

If you use dispel psionics, you'd be making separate ML checks against the CL of each summoned shadow as you thought. Incorporeal creatures have a 50% chance to avoid damage from corporeal spells, but not other effects like being dispelled. When it comes to abjurations, they affect incorporeal creatures normally (with the "50% chance to avoid damage" clause). Were you perhaps thinking of ethereal creatures?

In regards to telekinetic thrust, you can attack separate targets with the objects/creatures thrown. If you thrust someone upwards, they could be subject to falling damage unless they have a way to mitigate or avoid it.

[Lord Ruby34]

@Ponies
Whew! The rules are working the way I want them to for once. :smallbiggrin:

The darkness disappears as suddenly as it came, flooding the arena in bright light once more. Kalib is visable again, and visibly frustrated. He swears loudly then disappears, reappearing by the arena wall, headed westward, still screaming profanities and ear curdling insults.

"You {redacted] coward! Show your yellow face and [redacted] fight me like man! Or I will make you!"

As if to respond to his wishes a force begins to exert itself near Alif.


Swift: Activate Anklet to move to K1.
Move: Move to G1
Standard: Manifest Dispel Psionics, Augmented to cost six PP, to make my dispel bonus +8.

Area dispel, centered on M5.



I can only knock one buff off. Starting from highest caster level until I succeed or I fail on all your buffs. (Assuming max six. Let me know if I need to roll more, or if your shadows have buffs on them.)

[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]
[roll3]
[roll4]
[roll5]


Not items, just objects that you may have cast something on. (Assuming max six. Let me know if I need to roll more.)

[roll6]
[roll7]
[roll8]
[roll9]
[roll10]
[roll11]


What it says on the tin. These will be dispelled as if the duration ended. (Assuming max six. Let me know if I need to roll more.)

[roll12]
[roll13]
[roll14]
[roll15]
[roll16]
[roll17]


Suppresses where an effect overlaps. (Assuming max six. Let me know if I need to roll more.)

[roll18]
[roll19]
[roll20]
[roll21]
[roll22]
[roll23]



Shadow 1: [roll24]
Shadow 1: [roll25]

Other thing 1: [roll26]
Other thing 2: [roll27]

That is way too many rolls.


End Turn

[Piggy Knowles]

There is a sharp cry from within the snowstorm, and a powerful wave of magic radiates backwards as Kalib attempts to dispel the area, preventing his strange form of magic from taking effect.


Immediate action: counterspell via Dispel Magic.
Dispel check: [roll0] (versus DC 11+CL of whatever I'm trying to dispel)


Divine Defiance, counterspell. When using dispel magic I don't need to identify the spell or effect first:



You can use dispel magic to counterspell another spellcaster, and you don’t need to identify the spell he or she is casting.

[OMG PONIES]

OOC: I'm inclined to rule that dispel psionics can be counterspelled only with dispel magic, given the following text:

All spells that dispel magic have equal effect against powers of the same level using the same mechanics, and vice versa.
Thus, dispel magic has equal effect vs. powers as it does vs. spells. Since the ability to use it as a counterspell is an option under the spell description, it must be available in order for the spell to have "equal effect," even absent any rules about typical counterspelling (which I'd rule doesn't work since you have to have the same power or spell prepared, usually. Don't get me started on how that interacts with Improved Counterspell or psionic powers that read "...as the spell X" being countered using spell X. Those are bridges we'll cross when and if we get to them). Comments/questions?

[Piggy Knowles]

OOC: Works for me, thanks, Ponies. Lord Ruby, does that conclude Kalib's turn?

[Lord Ruby34]

OOC: The problem, as I see it, is this passage from the SRD.


How Counterspells Work
To use a counterspell, you must select an opponent as the target of the counterspell. You do this by choosing the ready action. In doing so, you elect to wait to complete your action until your opponent tries to cast a spell. (You may still move your speed, since ready is a standard action.)

If the target of your counterspell tries to cast a spell, make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the spell’s level). This check is a free action. If the check succeeds, you correctly identify the opponent’s spell and can attempt to counter it. If the check fails, you can’t do either of these things.


The word tries implies that you must counterspell your opponent before the spell is complete. To do this you have to be able to tell that they are casting a spell (or manifesting a power as the case may be). The problem of course is that all powers are effectively stilled and silenced. The only clue that a power is being manifested would then be the display.


When a power is manifested, a display may accompany the primary effect. This secondary effect may be auditory, material, mental, olfactory, or visual. No power’s display is significant enough to create consequences for the psionic creatures, allies, or opponents during combat. The secondary effect for a power occurs only if the power’s description indicates it. If multiple powers with similar displays are in effect simultaneously, the displays do not necessary become more intense. Instead, the overall display remains much the same, though with minute spikes in intensity. A Psicraft check (DC 10 + 1 per additional power in use) reveals the exact number of simultaneous powers in play.

As the passage suggests a display does not occur until the power is manifested. Thus the first clue that Kalib would be manifesting a power would be when it takes effect, and at that point it's too late to counterspell. There is no way for Alif to realize that Kalib is doing anything that might effect him until the power has already started to take effect.

To sum up, even if it is theoretically possible to counterspell a power it isn't actually possible due to the wording of both the counterspell action and the wording of psionic displays.

[Piggy Knowles]

OOC: Two counterpoints- Countering via dispel magic explicitly bypasses the need to identify the spell first, and Alif has an immediate action method of counterspelling - and immediate action responses resolve before the action in question.

[Lord Ruby34]

OOC: Two counterpoints- Countering via dispel magic explicitly bypasses the need to identify the spell first, and Alof has an immediate action method of counterspelling - and immediate action responses resolve before the action in question.

OOC: I'm not suggesting that you need to identify the power, I'm suggesting that Alif doesn't even know a power is being manifested until the power has been manifested. The first Alif would know about the power would be immediacy after it has been manifested. He could respond to the effect, you can take an immediate action then, but it is already to late to counterspell, the power has been manifested.

[Piggy Knowles]

OOC: That would be like arguing that I couldn't make an AoO against you for manifesting in a threatened area, because I wouldn't know you were doing it. The rules clearly state otherwise. Besides, Dispel Psionics has a visual display that Alif would clearly be able to see.

[Lord Ruby34]

OOC: Of course you could make an AOO, it's a second when he's not focusing on the fight but instead inward. And one of the points was that the display takes place when the power is manifested. That is, after your chance to counterspell has passed. If a power is disrupted then no display would take place.

[OMG PONIES]

OOC: After doing some research I disagree with the assertion that manifesting a power is fundamentally undetectable until it is already complete. I primarily do so for the following reasons:
Much like the Spellcraft skill, the Psicraft skill allows one to identify a power "being manifested," rather than a power that "has manifested." If the display occurred after manifestation, the language would be different. While you usually need to identify a spell/power to attempt a dispel counterspell, Alif has an ability which obviates that need.
There is language that, under transparency, "powers interact with spells and spells interact with powers in the same way a spell or normal spell-like ability interacts with another spell or spell-like ability." Thus, the interaction of a spell and a power is the same as the interaction between two spells unless stated otherwise. The display takes the place of spell components. Though one can manifest without a display, see below.
You can make a Concentration check to manifest a power without its display (thus giving opponents no chance of identifying which power you're manifesting), but the manifester is still subject to attacks of opportunity as it is clear he is focusing on something. I'd rule if you're subject to AoOs, you're subject to being countered via dispel magic.
Thoughts?

[Lord Ruby34]

OOC: After doing some research I disagree with the assertion that manifesting a power is fundamentally undetectable until it is already complete. I primarily do so for the following reasons:
Much like the Spellcraft skill, the Psicraft skill allows one to identify a power "being manifested," rather than a power that "has manifested." If the display occurred after manifestation, the language would be different. While you usually need to identify a spell/power to attempt a dispel counterspell, Alif has an ability which obviates that need.
There is language that, under transparency, "powers interact with spells and spells interact with powers in the same way a spell or normal spell-like ability interacts with another spell or spell-like ability." As such, you usually know a spell is being cast by the components and you usually know a power is being manifested by the display.

OOC: This actually seems to be a direct contradiction in the rules. The rules on display say when a power is manifested. The rules in the psicraft skill say as the power is being manifested. I'm not rules savvy enough to know which counts as the primary source, so I'll abide but what ruling you make.



You can make a Concentration check to manifest a power without its display (thus giving opponents no chance of identifying which power you're manifesting), but the manifester is still subject to attacks of opportunity as it is clear he is focusing on something. I'd rule if you're subject to AoOs, you're subject to being countered via dispel magic.


Thoughts?

OOC: That logic suggests that if Kalib cast defensively that he would not be subject to countering, which doesn't make much sense either. Which is ironic because I burned a charge just so I wouldn't have to try and cast defensively.

Another problem, of course, is that Alif cannot identify what Kalib is doing. If all he knows is that Kalib is manifesting a power it makes me wonder why he chose to counter this one instead of any of the other power's he's manifested. He would know exactly as much about what Kalib is doing each time, and he had two prior times where he did not counterspell him.

The only reason I'm arguing so heatedly is because I'm almost certainly doomed if my power fails to go off. Still, I'll abide by whichever ruling you make. Consider this my last objection.

EDIT: Formatting is hard. I'm not entirely sure how to fix it so I'll just leave this here.

[OMG PONIES]

OOC: This actually seems to be a direct contradiction in the rules. The rules on display say when a power is manifested. The rules in the psicraft skill say as the power is being manifested. I'm not rules savvy enough to know which counts as the primary source, so I'll abide but what ruling you make.
OOC: Rather than a contradiction, this seems to be confusion caused by the meaning of the word "when." Does it mean "during" or "after?" The entry on Display does not speak to it, leading me to believe that the item under Psicraft clarifies that the display occurs during manifestation.

OOC: That logic suggests that if Kalib cast defensively that he would not be subject to countering, which doesn't make much sense either. Which is ironic because I burned a charge just so I wouldn't have to try and cast defensively.
Poor wording on my part. What I was attempting to say is this: if an action is perceptible enough to possibly incur attacks of opportunity, I'd rule that it's detectable for other purposes as well (dispel counters, readied actions, etc).

Another problem, of course, is that Alif cannot identify what Kalib is doing. If all he knows is that Kalib is manifesting a power it makes me wonder why he chose to counter this one instead of any of the other power's he's manifested. He would know exactly as much about what Kalib is doing each time, and he had two prior times where he did not counterspell him.
Hence the usual need to identify a spell or power prior to countering via dispel. Again, Alif's particular ability obviates that need, thus allowing him the freedom to pick and choose which powers he'd like to dispel as they come. Questions of intent aside, he's operating within the rules.

Granted, we all seem to have missed the forest for the trees. I apologize for not realizing this sooner: Alif cannot currently see Kalib. Kalib is shrouded in total darkness, and while Alif's shadows have darkvision Alif himself does not (unless I've missed something). Alif can communicate with his shadows to give them orders, but I don't think they can communicate back to him. If there's a RAW citation to the contrary, please let me know. Thus, Kalib's actions are unknown to Alif and thus impossible to counter via dispel magic.

Is this an acceptable ruling, or have I missed something that allows Alif to know Kalib is manifesting a power?

[Lord Ruby34]

Granted, we all seem to have missed the forest for the trees. I apologize for not realizing this sooner: Alif cannot currently see Kalib. Kalib is shrouded in total darkness, and while Alif's shadows have darkvision Alif himself does not (unless I've missed something). Alif can communicate with his shadows to give them orders, but I don't think they can communicate back to him. If there's a RAW citation to the contrary, please let me know. Thus, Kalib's actions are unknown to Alif and thus impossible to counter via dispel magic.

Is this an acceptable ruling, or have I missed something that allows Alif to know Kalib is manifesting a power?

Alif can see Kalib. Kalib stopped concentrating on his prior power the duration of which is concentration or one round not concentration plus one round. Well, if Alif can see out of his snow at least.

[Piggy Knowles]

OOC: Yes, Alif has no trouble seeing through the snow.

[OMG PONIES]

Alif can see Kalib. Kalib stopped concentrating on his prior power the duration of which is concentration or one round not concentration plus one round. Well, if Alif can see out of his snow at least.

OOC: Aah, I was operating under the assumption that the darkness was still active. Mea culpa. Alif can see through his snow and can choose to counter (or not counter) powers via dispel magic. Thus, he has a chance to counter Kalib's dispel psionics, which he succeeds on. It is Alif's turn, with a map update coming sometime tonight or tomorrow.

[Piggy Knowles]

The snowstorm begins to move once more. It almost brushes up against Kalib, its billowing flakes swirling about just a pace or two from his face. Then there is another sharp, cold word, and the ground beneath his feet begins to freeze. Soon the whole arena seems to be covered with slick ice, and he feels his feet begin sliding away.

Then the cold voice, high and piercing, echoes out from the snowstorm once more. "Surround him first," it says. "Once you have him surrounded, drain the life from him."

Silent as death, the shadows move to obey, drifting in on the winter winds to flank Kalib Sutol before their grasping hands reach forward once more.


Snowstorm moves west towards Kalib, but stops just short of engulfing him.

A 20' square of ice appears below Kalib's feet (covering squares G-J 1-4).

Kalib must make a DC 14 Balance check or fall prone, and must make a new check every round that he remains in the ice. (As always, anyone who makes a Balance check with fewer than 5 ranks in Balance is also flat-footed.) If he succeeds on the save, he may move at half speed across its surface.


MOVE: Alif moves to M6. This should bring the radius of the snowstorm to just five feet away from Kalib, but should not actually engulf him.

STANDARD:

Alif casts ice slick.


FREE:
Direct shadows to first fly to surround Kalib, and then once he is surrounded, attack.


First shadow (the one in J3) flies to G1 following a circuitous route to avoid an AoO (west to F3, north to F1, east to G1) and readies an action to attack once the other shadow is in position.

Second shadow flies to I1 (triggering the first shadow's readied action) and attacks.

First shadow:
Touch attack: [roll0]
--Crit confirmation (if necessary): [roll1]
Strength damage: [roll2]
--Crit damage (if necessary): [roll3]

Second shadow:
Touch attack: [roll4]
--Crit confirmation (if necessary): [roll5]
Strength damage: [roll6]
--Crit damage (if necessary): [roll7]

[Lord Ruby34]

[roll0]

I need to see the result of this before I take my (Probably last) turn.

[Lord Ruby34]

Kalib gasped as the shadow brushed his face, sapping his flagging strength with its unearthly chill, but kept his balance on the treacherous ice. He didn't speak this time, he simply focused in on himself, focusing for all he was worth, Yarvith humming in his head to give him something to focus on.


Standard: Manifesting Defensively [roll0] +2 If Yarvith can hit a ten. DC 18 If I fail this I provoke two AoO's and my power fails.
Yarvith: [roll1]
Manifest Dispel Psionics, Augmented to cost six PP, to make my dispel bonus +8.

Area dispel, centered on H4.



I can only knock one buff off. Starting from highest caster level until I succeed or I fail on all your buffs. (Assuming max six and that you're in the area. Let me know if I need to roll more, or if your shadows have buffs on them.)

[roll2]
[roll3]
[roll4]
[roll5]
[roll6]
[roll7]

I'm in the area of my own dispel this time. :smallannoyed: (Yarvith being where he is I assume he isn't effected. Ponies, let me know if I need to hit him too.)

[roll8]
[roll9]
[roll10]
[roll11]
[roll12]
[roll13]



Not items, just objects that you may have cast something on. (Assuming max six. Let me know if I need to roll more.)
EDIT: Realized this effects me too. Last three are mine, first three are yours?

[roll14]
[roll15]
[roll16]
[roll17]
[roll18]
[roll19]



What it says on the tin. These will be dispelled as if the duration ended. (Assuming max six. Let me know if I need to roll more.)

[roll20]
[roll21]
[roll22]
[roll23]
[roll24]
[roll25]



Suppresses where an effect overlaps. (Assuming max six. Let me know if I need to roll more.)

[roll26]
[roll27]
[roll28]
[roll29]
[roll30]
[roll31]




Shadow 1: [roll32]
Shadow 2: [roll33]

Other thing 1: [roll34]
Other thing 2: [roll35]

That is still way too many rolls.

Awaiting the results of my turn before I take my move action.


@Ponies
If this works I'll lose share pain and Greater Magic Weapon from my bow.

[Piggy Knowles]

Once again the waves of dispelling force move outward from Kalib, and once again he feels a push backwards, powerful divine energy disrupting his magical forces.


Dispel check: [roll0] (vs. DC 11+CL)


Divine Defiance once more. 9 turn attempts left.

[Lord Ruby34]

Seeing his attempt fail Kalib... does nothing.

End turn.

[Piggy Knowles]

OOC: Just a quick reminder, you need to make another Balance check for remaining in the area of the ice. I'll post my turn in the meantime, though, since I don't think the results of your Balance check will change my own actions.

"Keep at it, shadelings," says the cold voice. The shadows reach their cold hands forward...


Shadow one attacks:
Touch Attack: [roll0]
--Crit confirmation, if necessary: [roll1]
Strength Damage: [roll2]
--Crit damage, if necessary: [roll3]

Shadow two attacks:
Touch Attack: [roll4]
--Crit confirmation, if necessary: [roll5]
Strength Damage: [roll6]
--Crit damage, if necessary: [roll7]

As always, balancing without 5 ranks = flat-footed.

I'll wait to find out the results of these attacks to conclude my turn.

[Lord Ruby34]

[roll0]

Do de do. Words.

[Lord Ruby34]

Kalib feels an icey hand caress his cheek and gasps, nearly falling over. He's quite obviously on his last legs.

[Piggy Knowles]

The cloud begins to move and billow away from Kalib.


Double-move to...

O13


This ends my turn.


EDIT: Also, forgot to mention, but don't forget that your carry capacity changing due to low Strength could also mean a penalty to your Balance checks. Going up to a medium load is the same as having a -3 ACP penalty, and a heavy load is equivalent to a -6 ACP. This may not effect you, since it doesn't stack with any ACP you have from your armor, and even with a -6 I'm pretty sure you still passed the Balance checks. Just reminding for the sake of form.

[Lord Ruby34]

Kalib gasped. Why was his sword so heavy? It felt like there was a lead weight in his hand, one that he couldn't keep holding. It fell. So did his bow, dropped from trembling fingers. The shadows around him seemed more threatening now, bigger, more viscous. His feet were slipping on the ice, but he didn't care. Some part of him dimly recognized that he was about to die, and that their was little he could do but keep trying what had already failed. He focused again, trying once more to send the shadows back to the Aether.


Free: Drop bow and Sword.
Standard:Manifest Dispel Psionics, Augmented. Area, targeted on G2
Manifest Defensively check: [roll0] DC 18, +2 If Yarvith doesn't roll a one. If I fail I get to eat a pair of AoO's.
Aid Another: [roll1]


Shadow 1:[roll2]
Shadow 2: [roll3]

Slippery Ice spell: [roll4]

Suppress Slippery Ice spell: [roll5]

Myself:
[roll6]
[roll7]
[roll8]
[roll9]

My Bow:
[roll10]

If this works then I lose my Share Pain.

I'll wait on my results before taking my move action (And balance check)

[Piggy Knowles]

The shadows and ice seem to shimmer in the air for an instant, then disappear.

[Lord Ruby34]

Kalib blinks in astonishment, completely unable to believe that his attempt had finally worked. Then he staggers backward and away from the wall, drawing his dagger as he goes.

Move to D2

End Turn

[Piggy Knowles]

The winds and snow move closer once more, the edge of the stormcloud staying a dozen paces away from Kalib.

Another shadow appears at the snowstorm's terminus, its unearthly form floating in the air. It races forward and attacks.


Snowstorm moves toward Kalib, its very edge just over 30' away from him.

Shadow appears in I7, five feet in the air. It charges to E3 and attacks.

Shadow attacks!
Touch attack: [roll0]
--crit, if necessary: [roll1]
Strength Damage: [roll2]
--crit, if necessary: [roll3]


Alif moves to M11 and summons another shadow.


End turn.

[Lord Ruby34]

The shadow barreled toward Kailb, reaching outward like the hand of death, utterly unavoidable. Seconds later the elf fell boneless to the ground, his face grey and lifeless.

[OMG PONIES]

By this point, the crowd is on their feet. Those who had purchased the goggles being hawked by the vendors had caught every spell, every power, and every opposed dispel. Watching two daring swordsmen exchange parries was a sight to behold, but watching two gifted minds parry each other was a spectacle of another caliber. As the shadows sap Kalib's strength, the arena is at a deafening roar. When he falls to the ground, the raucous applause only intensifies.

There is no moment of silence; there is no honoring of the dead. There is merely delight, and a thirst for more.

Alif wins!