[3.5] Building... A Tourist?

[koboldish]

Alright everyone! I would like some help on a build. My bard was kicked out for being too op (it's a low op group). After spending a few days playing Nethack, I came up with a concept for another character. I want to play a tourist. In Nethack, they're able to throw darts at stuff for damage, as well as some various utility things. I want to be able to do it without armor, as just walking around in a Hawaiian shirt seems pretty funny. So far, I'm thinking Factotum as a base. They have a lot of utility, and can be built for some damage. The only problems I have are making darts to decent damage (about on par with a 3rd level fighter), and being somewhat survivable with no armor.

This is for a 3rd level campaign, with mostly tier 3s. One or two of the other players tend to optimize.

Thanks for the help!

[Dusk Eclipse]

Poison and/or Knowledge Devotion are good options that synergize well with Factotums

[Gwachitallemall]

If you can use Eberron, there's a character that's all about travelling, the Thunder Guide. Looking at it, you're more of a specialist in showing off and getting stuff written about you, a celebrity. It's in Explorer's Handbook, pg 64.

[Kennisiou]

Yeah, in general you'll want ways to add more damage bonuses on with manyshots/greater manyshots. Poisons are nice but can take a while to come online and are expensive. Often by the time you can make poisons easily/cheaply their DCs are too low to be useful. Knoweldge devotion is a good choice here. If Dragon Magazine content is allowed, dipping a level in the Targeteer Fighter variant from dragon magazine 310 to add Dex to damage isn't a bad idea either. Dipping a rogue level for sneak attack so you qualify for the Craven feat is also a nice way to get an easy damage bonus. A composite bow for str to damage with a nice strength score on top of that is also a good way to add more damage.

[koboldish]

So, Factotum 2/Targeteer Fighter 1? I'd take knowledge devotion, point blank shot, and rapid shot. From there, I'd dip 1 level in Rogue, then just go back to straight Factotum? I want to use darts, and not a bow. Within those criteria, is there a better option?

[Kennisiou]

The good news is that, as throwing weapons, you already get Str to damage with them. Targeteer by RAW replaces that with Dex to damage but doesn't remove Str penalties, meaning you'll be able to set Str to 10 and then pump Int and Dex primarily (with con to survive, obviously). I'd wait on the one rogue level until a level where you get a feat that isn't occupied by knowledge devotion. Don't wait too long, but understand the main reason for the dip is the Craven feat, which gets stronger the more levels you have -- waiting to take it isn't going to hurt.

Also, remember that targeteer fighter gets a different bonus feat list from a regular fighter and that taking the dex to damage feature requires trading in a bonus feat, so your third feat is going to have to be a racial bonus feat.

[koboldish]

Yeah. Forgot to mention I was playing a human. Thanks for the input! Is it worth it to trade in another feat for the arrow swarm ability?

[Kennisiou]

Arrow Swarm is pretty cool, but remember that the advantage of a factotum archer is that you aren't making full attacks. You're making full move actions and then spamming standard actions to manyshot out tons of arrows. Or in this case darts.

Also, doublecheck that manyshot works with throwing weapons with your DM, since by RAW it does not! Or that you can find another way to throw multiple weapons as a standard action! Otherwise you wind up losing out on the main benefits of factotum archery (er, dartery) and should probably look into a precision damage build instead like swift hunter.

[koboldish]

I'm fairly sure my DM would allow manyshot with darts. I'm not gaining any benefit over a bow. Besides, one of the definitions of arrow is an arrow shaped object. I would say darts qualify. Would it make sense to go for some scout/ranger levels instead of rogue (swift hunter)? I would want to take the urban ranger variant though.

Edit: Nevermind. I don't want to miss out on too many Factotum features. I think I'm just going to dip into Scout for a level for the 1d6 damage a turn.

[Kennisiou]

The main purpose of the 1 level rogue dip is to qualify for Craven, which specifies Sneak Attack. If your DM allows anything that applies to Sneak Attacks to also apply to Skirmishes then one scout level works for you, but otherwise you'll probably want to stick with Rogue. It's generally not a great idea to go with swift hunter + factotum, since you wind up with a build that's kinda schizophrenic and looks like...

Factotum 8/Scout4/Ranger8 (or Ranger 7/Cleric 1 for travel devotion, knowledge devotion, and a turning pool) which misses out on a whole ton of important things from the standard swift hunter build like improved precise shot, some skirmish damage, and some favored enemies (although it does gain the factotum's bonus standard actions and lightens the feat load on the factotum a bit by giving them two of the feats they want for free plus giving them a bonus feat).

[koboldish]

I'm not opposed to a level of rogue (sorry for vague wording), just opposed to the whole swift hunter progression. At low levels, it's slightly harder to make sneak attack work every time, but the level is still worth it. Overall, I'd still get 17 levels of Factotum/Maybe Chameleon (probably not). There would be 1 level of Fighter, 1 of Scout, and 1 of Rogue.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Factotums get access to Minor Creation, so getting poison shouldn't be a problem and if your DM calls for some sort of craft check, a single Skill point in Craft (Poison) should be enough to cover your needs. It does comes online a tad late where poison immunity is becoming common, so if you are OK with Psionics you can take Hidden Talent (Psionic Minor Creation) and start making poisons from level 1! Do note that you need Cha 11+ and a feat slot so it isn't right for everyone.

[koboldish]

Yeah. I don't think poisons are the way to go, because I really need the feat slots and they don't seem effective enough for their cost. If I do end up going for that, which poisons would you suggest using?

[Dusk Eclipse]

I have to run, but I suggest you take a look into this handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2714.0), it should cover any of your doubts about poisons, but the general go to is Black lotus poison (DC to craft 35, Damage 3d6 con/3d6 con and DC 20 pretty nasty)

[Kennisiou]

This guide (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4854.msg162787#msg162787) has a nice list of all of the poisons in the game.

Note that if you go the minor creation route you wind up A: having to wait a while for being able to do it and only with one minor creation a day lasting an hour per level (because Factotum) or B: having to give up a feat (or some wealth and skill points for a dojre of psionic minor creation and enough use psionic device to use it easily) and then having to stop every level hours to make your poisons again. It's honestly not bad and there are some really powerful poisons that do scale up nicely, but a lot of the tricks suggested in the poisons guide are occasionally shakey under RAW and the main suggested way around that (minor creation) is still kind of shakey and also requires you to stop and reprepare multiple times a day, which some groups are not happy to do.

It's still something to look into finding a tricky way to do, though. Preparing before a tough boss fight with a scroll/tatoo of minor creation/psionic minor creation by making some poisons is not necessarily a bad idea, and if you need to stealth kill someone then a poison that disappears a few hours later leaving behind little evidence isn't a bad idea.

Also, there is a feat tax that is pretty much always associated with poison use: without the master of poisons feat (or a class feature that gives poison familiarity like Assassin and Blackguard's poison use), you run the risk of accidentally poisoning yourself when applying poisons to weapons.

[koboldish]

So it's probably not worth it. I think I've figured out most of the main parts of the build. I have a couple things I need to figure out, all of which are items.
I need:

Survivability (I don't wanna die)
Some sort of phrasebook
Luggage (often lost)
Spare Money
General air of coming across like a tourist (not knowing about local culture, being extorted by general shopkeepers, etc. This is easily represented by a low wisdom, but I'd rather RP it. Tips appreciated!)

[Kennisiou]

Low wisdom, see about getting a custom flaw that gives you penalties on appraise and sense motive and take, say, knowledge (local) as a bonus feat with it for fluff ("I know so much about the local culture, I read all about it in this little book! Oh, yes, 300 gold pieces does seem about right for this custom hand made club. That man wants it for five hundred? That won't stand! 750 gold pieces it is, sir! Good day.")

Get a handy haversack for sure. Maybe look into some threads about cheap but useful magic items to carry around, there's a bunch out there. Tourist is always prepared and just pulls out random magic items all the time that are relevant to the situation. The odder and cheaper the better. Consider some magic item compendium diving.

A masterwork tool of knowledge (local) could be fun to carry around (masterwork knowledge tools are just books on the subject). Grabbing one for knowledge (history), knowledge (nobility), and knowledge (architecture and engineering) would also be thematically appropriate. Not sure about any items that work like phrasebooks. Maybe see if the DM's cool with you carrying a wand of tongues refluffed into a magical book instead?

[Urpriest]

So it's probably not worth it. I think I've figured out most of the main parts of the build. I have a couple things I need to figure out, all of which are items.
I need:

Survivability (I don't wanna die)
Some sort of phrasebook
Luggage (often lost)
Spare Money
General air of coming across like a tourist (not knowing about local culture, being extorted by general shopkeepers, etc. This is easily represented by a low wisdom, but I'd rather RP it. Tips appreciated!)


In terms of luggage, presumably if you're going for the particular tourist you're going for, you want THE Luggage. Here is what I cooked up the last time I was inclined to make one. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10711479&postcount=19)

[koboldish]

Haversack is a must have. It's still based off of the Nethack class. In Nethack, basically, you have a bag of holding filled with like 200 random scrolls and wands and potions and stuff. Would be very nice. The masterwork tools would be nice. I think I would actually use speak language tools instead of a magic item, so I could have fun with people misinterpreting me and stuff. Is there a way you can be a human without speaking common? :smallbiggrin:
Thanks a ton for all of your help so far. It's been great.


Edit: THE Luggage would be amazing, but not necessary. Sapient Pearwood would be far too expensive.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by koboldish
Is there a way you can be a human without speaking common?

Well, be a human from far enough away that "common" in your home region is a completely different language from "common" in the campaign region. Different continents generally do this well enough.

Very DM-specific, of course, but that would be my approach. And fits neatly with Twoflower the archetypal tourist you want to play.