BattleJump POLL!

[GhengisConrad]

Okay, I seriously read through the forum rules, and I didn't find where it said posting this would be illegal.

http://poll.pollcode.com/2731885

If you're going to select the 'poorly worded' option, if you could kindly post in this thread as to what is poor about the wording....

Don't cheat or anything. I am curious what people generally think.

[Kaje]

Hey Genghis, what do you think about maybe just one thread for this charger build you're working on?

[gawwy]

I would consider changing the wording.

I assume what you are trying to get at is as follows:

When using Battle Jump does the 15-30ft vertical fall on to an opponent have to be intentional to trigger the charge?

OR potentially you want to know something along the lines of:

When using Battle Jump does the 15-30ft fall on to an opponent have to be completely vertical or can it be an arc as long as at some point you are above 15ft and never above 30ft?

OR maybe even:

When using Battle Jump does the 15-30ft vertical fall on to an opponent have to be initiated from solid ground (or a stable position such as a wall that you have climbed) or can it be initiated by jumping up15-30ft and falling from there?

tl;dr there are a few ways to interpret battle jump depending on how you want to abuse it be more clear what aspect of battle jump you want to abuse :p

*EDIT

lets not forget the combined abuse of leap attack.

Leap Attack:

[If you cover at least 10 feet of horizontal distance with your jump.....]
[This attack must follow all the normal rules for using the Jump skill and for making a charge...]

Battle Jump:

[You can execute a charge by simply dropping...]

Now if what you to actually know is if they go together you need to rule for question 2 above:

NO, the fall does not have to be completely vertical (it can arc)

you also need to rule for question 3 above:

NO, you do not have to start on stable ground above the foe, you can jump up to the foe.

IN ADDITION to this you also need to ask if as Battle jump states [You can execute a charge by simply dropping...] the following:

When using Battle Jump does the distance covered BEFORE you hit the foe count as distance travelled as part of the charge?

this is so you can use it to trigger leap attack (I would say yes but im being pedantic and RAW isn't perfectly clear)

ALSO as leap attack states [This attack must follow all the normal rules for using the Jump skill and for making a charge...] you need to ask the following:

can Battle Jump and Leap Attack interact at all?

as Battle jump isn't the "normal" rules for a charge.

sorry for the wall of text but it seems that when you try and mix 3.0 rules and 3.5 rules they don't play nice all the time. also it could be argued that Leap Attack is a replacement for Battle Leap and thus Battle Leap is obsolete in a 3.5 game and leap attack is unapplicable to a 3.0 game.

HOWEVER feel free to talk to your DM to see if hes ok with mixing these two to work as you want in a houserule. Also argue that RAA trumps RAI and RAW.

[GhengisConrad]

would the wording make more sense if it read "can any vertical fall" instead of "is any vertical fall"?

[(Un)Inspired]

Hey Genghis, what do you think about maybe just one thread for this charger build you're working on?

Haha you can't rush an artist at work

[GhengisConrad]

Hey Genghis, what do you think about maybe just one thread for this charger build you're working on?

Haha you can't rush an artist at work

I think, with some minor exceptions, that most of my threads are of a substantively different nature as to be different topics of discussion.

Do they have a central theme? Yes.

Maybe its a personal preference, but I don't much care for a thread over 2 pages.

But hey, I've been wrong in the past, I'll be wrong in the future, I could be wrong here. Honestly, no clue as to the exact etiquette expected on a forum.

[gawwy]

so what was is you actually wanted to know if you could do with battle jump?

also updated my other post

[GhengisConrad]

Whether or not falling on an opponent can be a sufficient condition to execute a charge via Battle Jump.

Specifically, I hope to fly over an opponent, fall (which a natural flyer can do by stalling [at will]), the fall becomes a charge, I pounce the mofo. Next round, fly up, repeat.

There are many unnamed RAW aficionados in this board who's opinions I respect greatly; who argue that you must have an entire full-round available for the jump action to be considered a charge, as Battle Jump does not specifically mention that it changes the action economy of charge, and a normal charge requires such a thing.

So as not to create redundant threads The discussion can be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325155)

I tend to consider myself strongly in the 'RAW' camp of play-style. And when I am not, it is in order to deny a benefit, not confer one. It puts me quite at odds with my normal style of play to be on this side of the tracks... and I hate it...

[Oko and Qailee]

My opinion:

Yes circumstantially. The text for battle jump explicitly says the only condition required is falling. BUT it says you cannot do it from a fly or levitate spell, so those are out.

Floor gave way under you and you saw an enemy below you? Yes
You jumped above your opponent by 5 ft? Yes
You fell from a fly spell? No
You saw why kids loves cinnamon toast crunch? Impossible, even for epic level wizards.

[gawwy]

personally i think you have to house rule a little with battle jump.

mostly cause by RAW the off a ledge example doesn't work at all.

e.g. if your stood on a wall you have to 5-foot step off the wall to start falling. you cannot 5-foot step and charge on the same turn.

Also your probably already house ruling as I remember the battle jump feat having REGION: Taer in its prereqs.

if you could find a way to move 10 foot as a free action it could work for flying up and stalling.

that is as long as you ignore "A stalling creature can take no actions, except to recover from the stall." (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040706a).

so no you can barely battle jump at all RAW and almost certainly not while flying if your very strictly RAW. but as your not RAW as soon as you take the feat as you probably don't meet the prerequisite you can probably find a way to do it with 10 foot free action moves. or apply ROA.

** EDIT **

i hate saying no to my players so at this point i would be looking at the diving attack rules.

[A creature that flies can make dive attacks. A dive attack works just like a charge, but the diving creature must move a minimum of 30 feet and descend at least 10 feet. It can make only claw or talon attacks, but these deal double damage. A creature can use the run action while flying, provided it flies in a straight line.]

things to note.

1) there is no minimum horizontal movement
2) any creature with a fly of Average or better can fly strait down
3) a creature flying strait down can move double its fly speed (like a land creature can on a charge).

so instead of stalling you could just fly strait down and initiate dive/charge and treat it as falling (as you are most defiantly hurling yourself at the ground using your wings).

still need to do something about moving back up

[GhengisConrad]

I was actually planning on qualifying under the "Deliberately Freefalling" part, not the Stalling part. I forgot about that.

[Waddacku]

I really wouldn't care about the method used to get high enough, only that that movement, the fall, and the resulting charge are your full-round action for the turn. No weird changing. I believe simply treating battle jump as an alternate movement for the charge is the most reasonable way to handle it.