Making a Chameleon. (3.5)

[D4rkh0rus]

How would I go about making one of these?

It would go x 5/Cham 10/x 5
But what Can I use?
Is Factotum 3 good for its brains over brawn?
What else can I add?

I was thinking Factotum 1-3/Cloistered cleric 1/Rogue 1/Chameleon 3/Warblade 1/Chameleon 4-10/something 4

With gnome quickrazor/IF (for the sake of awesome, refluffed to be an assassin's creed hidden blade)


Also, Does chameleon count towards the required caster level to take the craft magic item feats? or do I need to find another source?


I dont want Factotum 8. since The campaign is starting at lvl 3. And either Id get Factotum 8 at 8th lvl and screw chameleon casting, or get it at lvl 18 and meh.


Edit: Other options could be drow sneak attack fighter (mainly for craven + dex to dmg) and is shiba protector good? (Id think so, since Owl's insight gives you tons of wisdom and shiba adds wisdom to hit and dmg... idk...)


what are some useful buffs?

Also, with divine focus, would I be able to use anyspell from the spell domain? (Was thnking of a DDM persist chameleon)

[Piggy Knowles]

Cloistered cleric 1 is almost essential if you want Divine Metamagic, and the Trickery domain can give you all the skills you need.

Following that, here are some entry classes I've enjoyed:


Wizard 1. Abrupt Jaunt, a spell book for your arcane side, a free fighter feat, and most importantly, the ability to take the Spell Mastery feat. Why is that last bit important? Go and look up the feat Uncanny Forethought. Notice that it's any prepared spell, and doesn't specify arcane only. Enjoy casting any divine spell from any list up to 6th level as a full round action.
ToB classes are handy. Cloistered cleric 1/Crusader 4 has treated me well in the past, especially since the floating feat can be used to unlock higher level stances and maneuvers.
Incarnate 2. You get access to every incarnate soulmeld. Now use that floating feat to pick up a scaling chakra bind via the Open Chakra feat (or use the spells of the same name).
Half-elf Paragon. Just the first level. It has good skills and a bonus feat, which you can use for Human Heritage. It's the only way to nab both Able Learner and Human Heritage without flaws, in case you want to later access a PrC that requires point years (like Arcane Archer).
Duskblade 3. Full BAB, arcane spells, a bonus feat that qualifies you for Abjurant Champion down the road, and arcane channeling.

[Zombulian]

Finish the build with Charlatan. Doo eeet. Dooooo eeeet. I'm also a fan of going into Chameleon with Spellthief and the God's Blood feat.

[Zweisteine]

If you want to be the ultimate impersonator, be a Changeling Factotum 5/Cabinet Trickster 5/Chameleon 10. You can pretend to be anyone, and take both their body and abilities.

If your DM says Changelings can't be Chameleons, ignore them. A class for Doppelgangers and Humans should be open to hybrids.

Note: this build is not optimal, but it's awesome.

Take the PrCs in any order, but you probably want Cabibet Trickster 5 before level 20.

This build doesn't work as well in hack-and-slash adventures.

If you're in a high-optimization party, ask of factotum (and the PrCs) can have extra skill points to fulfill the purpose of being a skill monkey. (my DM gives factotums 10 skill points per level, but I doubt most would be willing to...)

[Fouredged Sword]

Here is my suggestions.

Spellthief 1 / Cloistered Cleric 1 / Duskblade 3 / Chameleon 10 / Abjurant Champion 5 Or abjurant champion 1 / Lich LA!

IF you can get a favorable reading of warshaper and changling replace those last 5 levels with warshaper 4 / Something 1

[Zweisteine]

Changeling rogue substitution levels might make that class a better skill monkey than factotum, though some skills still are off-list. If your DM waives feat requirement for Factotums going Chameleon (because the feat is literally useless for them), you should probably take that route, though.

Charlatan is probably more useful than Cabinet Trickster in a less intrigue-based campaign.

If you want to be more effective in combat, war shaper is very good, but it isn't do great with chameleon (one is for melee, one no so much).


Note: if you're starting at level 2, don't plan so far ahead, except to meet prerequisites.

[Fouredged Sword]

Once you get double focus you are going to sit in arcane/divine focus all the time for all the spells. Persisted Divine Power makes anyone a melee class. The immunity to stunning and critical hits is also REALLY nice at higher levels.

[D4rkh0rus]

Note: if you're starting at level 2, don't plan so far ahead, except to meet prerequisites.

I like planning ahead when considering a combat style.


Once you get double focus you are going to sit in arcane/divine focus all the time for all the spells. Persisted Divine Power makes anyone a melee class. The immunity to stunning and critical hits is also REALLY nice at higher levels.

How would I go about making it a ranged chameleon? (sniper) or is such a thing just not possible?

[Fouredged Sword]

Spells are still the best answer. Divine focus grants all the nice ranger spells like hunter's eye and snipers shot. Hunter's mercy can be good with a crit focused bow.

Load up on low level pearls of power and you can open every combat with a crit and follow up with sneak attacks.

Persisted divine power is again your best bet as you can get a high strength mod bow and love the boost to BAB. Swift invisibility will give you the ability to make sneak attacks in the middle of combat.

Go for greater manyshot and let hunter's eye add to damage.

One could trade duskblade for targeteer fighter in the above build.

[bekeleven]

I'll throw in something a bit different. Try either Cloistered Cleric 1/Human Paragon 3/Marshal 1 or Wiz 1/Human Paragon 3/Marshal 1. This gets you 2nd level spells and either (wis casting, turn undead, spontaneous heal, 3 domains/devotions) or (wizard shenannigans like jaunting).

Marshal is a fun 1st level but not necessary for non-CHA focused build. You'll still want it. Marshal qualifies you for exemplar as soon as you leave chameleon. Exemplar, you want.

Human Paragon gives you a stat boost (always nice) and a feat. You'll need extra feats if you're going for 9th level casting on a chameleon.

[Piggy Knowles]

Ranged builds with Chameleon are definitely doable - I've got a ton of them in my sig.

Sniper builds are always tough, but my best take on it has been:


Seven levels of Deepwood Sniper for x6 criticals.
Hunter's Mercy for auto-critting.
Hunter's Eye for a large quantity of SA damage.
Some way of auto-confirming the crit, such as Surge of Fortune or Murderous Intent.
A way of converting your sneak attack into static damage that multiplies on a crit, such as Craven or Maiming Strike (or both).


My own sniper uses seven levels each of Chameleon and Deepwood Sniper, for the spells necessary, boosts SA damage via Hunter's Eye, converts it to Cha damage from Maiming Strike, and fires off an auto-critting arrow volley. The first shot deals 24 points of Cha damage, which is enough to cripple or paralyze most enemies; if not, the remaining shots deal 4 more points each without crits. With CL boosting items and/or Consumptive Field cheese, it can get a lot higher than that, enough to take out anything in the ELH that is vulnerable to ability damage. (Admittedly, though, if you're epic and yet not immune to ability damage, you probably weren't long for the world anyhow.)

[D4rkh0rus]

Ranged builds with Chameleon are definitely doable - I've got a ton of them in my sig.

Sniper builds are always tough, but my best take on it has been:


Seven levels of Deepwood Sniper for x6 criticals.
Hunter's Mercy for auto-critting.
Hunter's Eye for a large quantity of SA damage.
Some way of auto-confirming the crit, such as Surge of Fortune or Murderous Intent.
A way of converting your sneak attack into static damage that multiplies on a crit, such as Craven or Maiming Strike (or both).


My own sniper uses seven levels each of Chameleon and Deepwood Sniper, for the spells necessary, boosts SA damage via Hunter's Eye, converts it to Cha damage from Maiming Strike, and fires off an auto-critting arrow volley. The first shot deals 24 points of Cha damage, which is enough to cripple or paralyze most enemies; if not, the remaining shots deal 4 more points each without crits. With CL boosting items and/or Consumptive Field cheese, it can get a lot higher than that, enough to take out anything in the ELH that is vulnerable to ability damage. (Admittedly, though, if you're epic and yet not immune to ability damage, you probably weren't long for the world anyhow.)

Ive seen the builds but the problem is starting at lvl 3. Your build comes online at like lvl 16 ish. kinda late D:


How would

Factotum 1-3/Rogue 1/Targeteer 1/Cloistered cleric 1/Chameleon 1-3/Shiba protector 1/Chameleon 4-10/something 3

Work? It would come online at lvl 12 with persisted divine power and at lvl 14 it would get access to owl's insight for some extra damage...

[Kennisiou]

If you want a DMM persist chameleon, I suggest gaining extra turning pools. One of the strengths of the DMM chameleon is they only need 10 levels in their primary caster class, so they've got 10 other levels they can gain. Spending 6 of them getting 3 turning pools is not really a waste like it would be for DMM clerics.

Bog-standard DMM Chameleon is something like:

Factotum 1/Cloistered Cleric 1/Paladin 4/Chameleon 10/Dread Necro 1/anything 3


Paladin Enforcer, the LN paladin from Dragon 310, or either of the evil paladins from UA are the best here for alignment reasons, but if not then you can fall from LG to LN when becoming a Dread Necro then redeem yourself and become LG again to retain your paladin abilities.

This build gives you three separate turning pools, meaning you get 9 + cha *3 turning attempts a day base. Extra turning (which you should take by having undeath as one of your CC domains) gets you 4 a day under all but the most flexible readings of RAW.

From here there's a ton of good spells to persist that other classes cannot, as well as the three core persisting cleric spells (Divine Power, Righetous Might, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful). Nixie's Grace, Bite of the Werebear, Greater Blink, Lord of the Sky, and Sirine's Grace are all good choices. Greater invisibility is good from a gamerule perspective, but bad from a you're never not invisible perspective. It can cause problems in towns and the like if you aren't careful, and you'll want to give your friends some kind of means of seeing you.

As for crafting: Chameleon levels count as CL for crafting if you meet the requirements to craft as a chameleon. So if it's a spell on the chameleon list and you have the appropriate feats, then you can craft an item as your chameleon caster level.

[D4rkh0rus]

If you want a DMM persist chameleon, I suggest gaining extra turning pools. One of the strengths of the DMM chameleon is they only need 10 levels in their primary caster class, so they've got 10 other levels they can gain. Spending 6 of them getting 3 turning pools is not really a waste like it would be for DMM clerics.

Bog-standard DMM Chameleon is something like:

Factotum 1/Cloistered Cleric 1/Paladin 4/Chameleon 10/Dread Necro 1/anything 3


Paladin Enforcer, the LN paladin from Dragon 310, or either of the evil paladins from UA are the best here for alignment reasons, but if not then you can fall from LG to LN when becoming a Dread Necro then redeem yourself and become LG again to retain your paladin abilities.

This build gives you three separate turning pools, meaning you get 9 + cha *3 turning attempts a day base. Extra turning (which you should take by having undeath as one of your CC domains) gets you 4 a day under all but the most flexible readings of RAW.

From here there's a ton of good spells to persist that other classes cannot, as well as the three core persisting cleric spells (Divine Power, Righetous Might, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful). Nixie's Grace, Bite of the Werebear, Greater Blink, Lord of the Sky, and Sirine's Grace are all good choices. Greater invisibility is good from a gamerule perspective, but bad from a you're never not invisible perspective. It can cause problems in towns and the like if you aren't careful, and you'll want to give your friends some kind of means of seeing you.

As for crafting: Chameleon levels count as CL for crafting if you meet the requirements to craft as a chameleon. So if it's a spell on the chameleon list and you have the appropriate feats, then you can craft an item as your chameleon caster level.


I don't wanna persist 50 spells, just 2 or 3, nightsticks serve that purpose.

does a chameleon meet the caster level prequisite of a crafting feat wit his floating feat?

[Fouredged Sword]

Generally the consensus is no due to the wording of chameleon. You cannot use the focuses to qualify for anything. You need some other forms of casting.

I recommend getting practical spellcaster for your cleric side and investing in items to boost your CL. Technically a strand of prayer beads will get you up to CL 9 without too much trouble. That is enough for most of the feats.

NOTE, you CAN craft using your chameleon spells. Qualifying for the feat is the problem.

[Piggy Knowles]

That sniper build needs a lot of levels to get all its tricks together for the uber-shot, true, although it's a solid archer before then. But for something that requires as few levels as possible to get going, I'd recommend one of the other Chameleon builds.

Shiba Protector is a fine option if you can use items that grant feats to qualify for it, but otherwise I'd avoid it. Even with Owl's Insight, it's a +5 or so boost to attack and damage. That's solid - but not necessarily game breaking. It becomes better if you're more of a Wis-SAD archer, of course - although with factotum, it looks like you're more interested in Int?

[Kennisiou]

If you're only going to persist 2-3 spells I'd suggest not going DMM. It's going to take 3 of your feats plus the wealth for those nightsticks. It's really not worth that kind of investment to just get three spells. Going whole hog has a lot more going for it, but if you're just nabbing divine power and, what, RWotF? Bite of the Werebear? Nixie's Grace? Greater Blink? Whatever else you pick, it's really not worth the three feats.

[D4rkh0rus]

If you're only going to persist 2-3 spells I'd suggest not going DMM. It's going to take 3 of your feats plus the wealth for those nightsticks. It's really not worth that kind of investment to just get three spells. Going whole hog has a lot more going for it, but if you're just nabbing divine power and, what, RWotF? Bite of the Werebear? Nixie's Grace? Greater Blink? Whatever else you pick, it's really not worth the three feats.

well, a big chunk of damage comes from Craven. So I would need a way to get sneak attack at range. Meaning I need sniper's shot. Hunter's eye also helps with the dmg, since up to 6d6 sneak attacks are pretty awesome.

Both only last a round and cost a swift action. and Im no RKV so I dont got swift actions all day errday...

I also want hunter's mercy/surge of fortune for the auto crit... Considering I spend a turn buffing up with hunter's mercy...

[D4rkh0rus]

Can a chameleon get spells from the Runescarred Berserker PRC?

[bekeleven]

Can a chameleon get spells from the Runescarred Berserker PRC?

As written, yes.

This is also the only way, to my knowledge, to make RSB scrolls - helpful for archivists.

[D4rkh0rus]

As written, yes.

This is also the only way, to my knowledge, to make RSB scrolls - helpful for archivists.

Since RSB gets divine power at lvl 3.. ehehehe.

[Zombulian]

As written, yes.

This is also the only way, to my knowledge, to make RSB scrolls - helpful for archivists.

Artificers can make them no?

[Chronos]

Quoth Piggy Knowles:

Incarnate 2. You get access to every incarnate soulmeld. Now use that floating feat to pick up a scaling chakra bind via the Open Chakra feat (or use the spells of the same name).
Unnecessary. Chameleon already gets more soulmelds than incarnate does.