Critical Hits and Invisibility

[CrazyYanmega]

Hello again, Giants! Got a question for you.

So a Pixie is invisible fighting a human with a great axe. The human attacks, and rolls natural 20s on both the attack roll AND the confirmation hit. My question is this: does he still have to roll for the 50% miss chance, or does the 20 mean he auto-hits from that as well?

The fate of my Pixie Pirate is on the line.

[Maginomicon]

You roll concealment (or total concealment) before any attack roll. If the concealment results in a miss, the attack roll misses regardless of whether it was a natural 20, period.

More importantly, the question must be asked how the human was able to determine that the attacker was within his own square. The Rules Compendium gives clear rules for what happens when someone is invisible.

[CrazyYanmega]

More importantly, the question must be asked how the human was able to determine that the attacker was within his own square. The Rules Compendium gives clear rules for what happens when someone is invisible.

I kinda stabbed him three times in the thigh. Racial Greater Invisibility lets me be invisible while attacking.

[Maginomicon]

I kinda stabbed him three times in the thigh. Racial Greater Invisibility lets me be invisible while attacking.
I'd still recommend that you read the Rules Compendium sections on the "invisible" condition and the rules for concealment (and total concealment). They're abundantly clear that if you roll your concealment and it results in a miss, it's a miss, period, because the attack roll becomes irrelevant.

[Baroncognito]

You roll concealment (or total concealment) before any attack roll. If the concealment results in a miss, the attack roll misses regardless of whether it was a natural 20, period.

Honestly, it doesn't make a difference if you roll concealment before or after you roll to-hit.

If you have better than a 50% chance to hit a target of the appropriate AC, you might want to roll concealment first, but if you only hit on a 18 or higher, then you're rolling fewer dice by rolling your to-hit first.

[TuggyNE]

Honestly, it doesn't make a difference if you roll concealment before or after you roll to-hit.

If you have better than a 50% chance to hit a target of the appropriate AC, you might want to roll concealment first, but if you only hit on a 18 or higher, then you're rolling fewer dice by rolling your to-hit first.

Don't be bringin' yer "practical table suggestions" to this here RAW discussion, y'hear! :smallyuk:

Anyway, yeah, concealment works regardless of to-hit rolls. That's its primary function, in fact.

[nyjastul69]

I kinda stabbed him three times in the thigh. Racial Greater Invisibility lets me be invisible while attacking.


In addition to what the others have said, one can't stab an opponent in the thigh.

[Rijan_Sai]

More importantly, the question must be asked how the human was able to determine that the attacker was within his own square. The Rules Compendium gives clear rules for what happens when someone is invisible.


If an invisible creature strikes a character, the character struck still knows the location of the creature that struck him (until, of course, the invisible creature moves). The only exception is if the invisible creature has a reach greater than 5 feet. In this case, the struck character knows the general location of the creature but has not pinpointed the exact location.

If a character tries to attack an invisible creature whose location he has pinpointed, he attacks normally, but the invisible creature still benefits from full concealment (and thus a 50% miss chance). A particularly large and slow creature might get a smaller miss chance.

So that would be how the human determined the pixie's square. As far as the point nyjastul69 posted about location damage, it was most likely DM description, given the pixie's 2' average hight. (Which begs the question: what was the pixie doing that close to the ground?)
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"that the attacker was within his own square"
The phrasing make me think that you were indicating that the pixie would be in the human's square...which would not be neccessary given that pixie's are small, and thus have 5' reach. If that's not how you ment it, this part can be ignored.

[Deophaun]

In addition to what the others have said, one can't stab an opponent in the thigh.
You can if he's sitting next to you.

[CrazyYanmega]

Thank you for confirming my suspicions, everyone.

To clarify, I am NOT the DM. My Pixie Pirate is part of an adventuring party that is getting held up by thugs. Thug leader got a lucky strike.

[HunterOfJello]

Honestly, it doesn't make a difference if you roll concealment before or after you roll to-hit.



Roll order does matter since the game allows you to make decisions that can alter a roll after you see the value it shows. If you already know that you rolled high enough on your miss change to be able to hit someone regardless of their 50% concealment and have now just rolled a d20 to hit, then you are more or less likely to modify that roll both before and after rolling the d20 by using abilities like rerolls, action points, and all sorts of other abilities that can modify a die result.

Roll order matters and can drastically effect player and DM decisions. Roll your dice in proper order.

[G.Cube]

Roll order does matter since the game allows you to make decisions that can alter a roll after you see the value it shows. If you already know that you rolled high enough on your miss change to be able to hit someone regardless of their 50% concealment and have now just rolled a d20 to hit, then you are more or less likely to modify that roll both before and after rolling the d20 by using abilities like rerolls, action points, and all sorts of other abilities that can modify a die result.

Roll order matters and can drastically effect player and DM decisions. Roll your dice in proper order.

Completely off topic, and I apologize greatly to Crazy for this post, but it just occurred to me that you and I are mortal enemies. :smallmad:

[Red Rubber Band]

Completely off topic, and I apologize greatly to Crazy for this post, but it just occurred to me that you and I are mortal enemies. :smallmad:

Are you a cube made of Jello?

Why does he hunt Jello? It could be to give them hugs as he likes the feel of them against his skin?