How Many Attacks? (TWF question)

[CommanderCronos]

Hey guys,

This is an issue that has likely been explained a million times. However I'm just looking for a bit of help to make sure what I've got is right.

My character is a Human. Rogue lvl3 / Swashbuckler lvl2. Weapon Finesse, Two Weapon Fighting, Daring outlaw, Craven, Dex 20. Fights with a rapier in each hand.

It seems like he is currently getting 1 attack with each weapon.

Main hand +0 (before dex bonus)
Off Hand -4 (before dex bonus)

Is this correct? also if so how will my attacks increase going forward?

Thanks for the help in advance.

[A.A.King]

No, that's not correct.

Your attack bonus for both your offhand weapon and your main hand weapon are the same

BAB + Dex Modifier -4 (Because a Rapier isn't a light weapon)

[Kennisiou]

Consider swapping your offhand to a shortsword to get a lower penalty on attacks. Also, with your dex being that big, consider taking a one level dip into swordsage at level nine to qualify for the shadowblade feat (grab two shadow hand maneuvers and the stance assassin stance) and then making both your weapons shortswords. Since they're shadowhand weapons, they both get dex to damage as long as you're in a shadowhand stance (easy enough if your only stance is a shadowhand stance).

[DarkSonic1337]

Hey guys,

This is an issue that has likely been explained a million times. However I'm just looking for a bit of help to make sure what I've got is right.

My character is a Human. Rogue lvl3 / Swashbuckler lvl2. Weapon Finesse, Two Weapon Fighting, Daring outlaw, Craven, Dex 20. Fights with a rapier in each hand.

It seems like he is currently getting 1 attack with each weapon.

Main hand +0 (before dex bonus)
Off Hand -4 (before dex bonus)

Is this correct? also if so how will my attacks increase going forward?

Thanks for the help in advance.

Let's see.
Has TWF
Off hand is not Light.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#tableTwoWeaponFightingPenalties

So you're base attack penalties are -4/-4. You have 4 bab so that puts it at +0/+0. You have a +5 Dex modifier putting it at +5/+5.

Off hand attacks are made at your full bab (itwf and gtwf give you additional attacks at full bab, then apply -5 and -10 penalties respectively). Generally your off hand attacks will have the same attack bonus as your mainhand attacks if you have the TWF feat, since the penalties to each hand is equal.

When you reach 6 bab (assuming everything else stays the same), your attack routine will be.

main hand +7/+2, off hand +7

if you grab improved two weapon fighting it will be

main hand +7/+2, off hand +7/+2

Does your offhand weapon need to be a rapier? You'd suffer less severe penalties with a light weapon in your offhand (such as a short sword or kukri). If it must be a rapier, consider getting a feycraft (Dungeon Master's Guide 2) Rapier. It will count as one size category lighter, but take a -1 penalty to damage rolls.

[CommanderCronos]

right I see, good. ok so going forward taking levels in swashbuckler all my new attacks I gain from my BA going up will be with my main hand and I will just get on attack with my off hand until I take Improved Two Weapon Fighting.

Eg:
Main hand: +x/+x/+x...etc
Off hand: +y(due to TWF)

[CommanderCronos]

unfortunate Swordsage is not an option in this campaign.

Yeah I had thought about giving him a light weapon in his off hand but the character flavour suits two rapiers and I've decided to go with it even with the slight hit on the attack bonus.

Soooo, wait.....since my BA is sitting at +4 would it look like this?

Main hand: +0
Off hand: -4

or this,

Main hand +0
off hand +0

as I say the TWF rules get a bit confusing and I thought the first one was correct as far as reading from the PHB.

[CommanderCronos]

OOooooh I see. so when TWF you are using you BA for both hands but with the minuses on the chart....

aaahhhh I see. I think I have been looking at TWF wrong for quite some time lol

[Kelb_Panthera]

Once you get TWF your penalty to primary attacks and off-hand attacks will -always- be the same.

The latter is the correct interpretation.

Your primary attack is 5 dex + 4 bab -4 TWF = +5

Your off-hand attack is also 5 dex +4 BAB -4 TWF = +5

You can reduce the penalty to all of your attacks to -2 by either switching your off-hand weapon to a light weapon or by picking up the oversized two weapon fighting feat. Since you're getting sneak attacks getting the light weapon is the more optimal choice but it's your character.

[CommanderCronos]

that's awesome, thanks guys.

to be honest I'm pretty sure I will be either getting a light weapon at some point or get my DM to let me buy some kind of rapier enhancement that makes my off hand one light or something along those lines. or maybe I will just pick up a nice dagger.

[KillianHawkeye]

BTW, you should edit your previous posts to add new content rather than posting several times in a row.

Forum Rules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?a=1)

[Gavinfoxx]

Why not fight with a rapier and a smallsword, and just use short sword stats for the smallsword?