Branching Out Past D&D [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Tellah

2007-01-22, 07:57 PM

Fireball.Man.Guy.

2007-01-22, 08:03 PM

Mutants and Masterminds uses the D20 mechanic exclusively, is very easy to learn, and often has villians not die at all! It is mainly for superheroes, but guns and armor are stated out. It also gives several pre-built supervillians and stats for people and animals included in the base handbook.

D20 Modern is fairly similar to DnD, while supporting a modern setting. Several splatbooks for it give the ability to do sci-fi too.

I_Got_This_Name

2007-01-22, 08:03 PM

I've heard good things about Sherpa (http://www.panix.com/~sos/rpg/sherpa.html). It's pretty universal, easy character generation, and doesn't look like it takes that long to learn.

Saph

2007-01-22, 08:04 PM

Well, there's the RPG I started out on - the old Star Wars d6 system. Very simple compared to D&D. NPC generation is so easy, you can pretty much make it up on the spot (it's easy to guess what their stats would be). As for learning the system, if you know D&D, you'll be able to pick d6 Star Wars up within a couple of hours. It really only has one mechanic.

- Saph

purple gelatinous cube o' Doom

2007-01-22, 08:06 PM

if you're looking to get away from the d20, there's always white wolf. Or, there's the LOTR RPG/Star Trek PRG both made by Decipher which feature a d6 system.

Roethke

2007-01-22, 08:06 PM

Raum

2007-01-22, 08:11 PM

You might look at True 20, it's based on d20 and has very few sourcebooks so is easily learned. For more of a SciFi game, I liked Shadowrun. SR is still one of my favorite gaming systems. It is a completely separate system though and will take more time to learn. Also, the character generation may not be as fast as you're looking for...I kept a binder full of pregenerated NPCs when I ran it.

RandomNPC

2007-01-22, 08:13 PM

theres always the serenity game, but i have no idea how hard it is to pick up.

TheOOB

2007-01-22, 08:25 PM

I'll have to make my plug for shadowrun, specifically shadowrun 4e, which has some of the easiest rules to learn I've every seen.

NPCs are really easy to make, even on the spot, you just need to pick the relevent abilities, skills, and eq and your good to go.

It takes place in 2070, with wireless computer technology, cybernetic enhancements, and magic all working side by side (well, magic doesn't work well with technology). You could very easily rule that magicians(spell casters and conjurers) and/or adepts(people with superhuman physical abilities) are superheros and even rarer then normal.

The shadowrun system is really easy to learn, almost everything is based around you rolling ability score+skill d6s, and counting every "hit"(die that lands 5 or 6), if you get more hits then the threshold, you succeed. Works the same with opposes tests, you just need more hits then your opponent.

zachol

2007-01-22, 08:28 PM

I suppose I could suggest GURPS.

I think of it as being "as complex as you want it to be," and once you get the basics down you can expand it to any setting.

Skyserpent

2007-01-22, 08:45 PM

Exalted and Mage are both completely seperate systems with pretty fun outcomes...

Tellah

2007-01-22, 08:49 PM

oriong

2007-01-22, 08:56 PM

http://atomicsockmonkey.com/ 's PDQ system is a good rules-light system. It's about as easy to learn and as fast as they get. The core rules are free and there's a superhero system, a modern-horror game, and a fairy-tale style fantasy game created there too. Other companies have also used the system for Ninja Burger and a D+D parody game.

Call of Cthulhu is really easy to learn/use, but it's very niche. Not necessarily the game for everyone.

BESM tri-stat is a point based system that manages to be moderately deep, but not as intimidating as something like GURPS (that is a system where you will spend hours creating a character very likely, although it's quite cool). The 2nd edition had many problems, but I hear there's a 3rd edition out now that solves many.

TheOOB

2007-01-22, 08:57 PM

Another system I haven't played much of but heard good things about is World of Darkness (Vampire the Masquarade, Werewolf the aplocolypse and such). From what I can understand if you get a group of players who dont turn it into an angst fest it's quite fun.

Yakk

2007-01-22, 10:52 PM

Wild Talent (http://arcdream.com/wildtalents/)'s is a nice system for superheros -- or, more accurately, superhumans who are humans.

SciFi is a braod genre. How hard do you want your sci fi?

Are we talking:
Large Mecha fighting.
FTL spaceships exploring space.
Hypertech socities trying not to break lowtech cultures.
Time travel police.
Blade runner distopia.
Psionic near-future crime.
Fantasy with Lazers.
Transdimensional military squads.
Zombie apocolypse.

Systems that are generic enough to handle all of that are few and far between. They often tend to be either far more crunchy or far less crunchy than you would like.

Thomas

2007-01-23, 07:26 AM

I'd like to start a game with a different ruleset in the near future. I've never played any roleplaying system but D&D, and I'm interested in trying a new system that may suit my tastes and those of my players better. Which systems do you guys like? I'm interested in a system that:
Allows for relatively painless NPC generation. I'm sick of spending an hour and a half statting out a caster only to watch him die after three rounds of combat. DMGenie and related programs go a long way, but I'm looking for something a bit less time-consuming.
Supports a sci-fi or superhero storyline. Fantasy is cool, but after four years of D&D I want a little variety at the table.
Can be learned without hours and hours of study. We're all in college, and if there's one thing my players don't want, it's extra reading.
Your thoughts?

How about... fantasy superheroes? HeroQuest (not the GW game, the Issaries Inc. game). Creating NPCs is easy as anything - you just come up with a bunch of abilities and give them numeric values. You'll only need hours (not hours and hours) of study. And Glorantha is the coolest campaign setting ever conceived. The focus is on storytelling and description over dice, so it won't suit everyone, though.

For SF, Fading Suns (not the d20 version). Relatively simple (there's only one book of rules, for one thing - the rest is pretty much all campaign setting information). It's space opera. Creating NPCs is quite painless, since they all have only a few stats and abilities, and there's no "NPC creation rules" (unlike D&D, where you have to calculate everything from certain values).

Incidentally, I don't think I've ever "assigned" my players reading. I buy my RPG books, I look at the rules whenever I have time, and I run a game and explain the rules as we go along.

MrNexx

2007-01-23, 09:12 AM

I'd agree with both Fading Suns and d6 Star Wars.

I'll also pimp Palladium; characters can take a while to make, but the game is a blast to play, and it supports any type of game you want.

Wolf53226

2007-01-23, 10:05 AM

I going to second MrNexx's pimping out of Palladium, it is close to d20 in many of the rules, although things are named differently, and with the wide aray of settings that all use the same ruleset you really can create any kind of character you could want.

Darrin

2007-01-23, 11:20 AM

I've only played the card game (which is a blast), but from friends I hear that Feng Shui is a system that pretty much meets your criteria, if you want to mix it up. Quick to pick up, more episodic than campaign oriented (kind of like an action-movie, characters play archetypes). Might want to check it out.
~R

Let me strongly second Feng Shui.

Chargen takes five minutes or less, even for new players.

NPC generation is even quicker.

It easily supports multiple genres straight out of the main rulebook. Sci-fi, fantasy, modern/contemporary, wuxia, action/thriller cops & robbers, martial arts, espionage, etc. Some light supers (mostly Batman style) but you can easily adapt it for more four-color scuffles.

It plays quickly and easily from just the main rulebook, so you don't have to spend weeks or months memorizing a whole crapload of "Complete Left-Handed Vegetarian Dental Hygienist" splatbooks. There are splatbooks, but they're not necessary for crunch'n'munch power-building.

JellyPooga

2007-01-23, 11:24 AM

I'll second GURPS: Versatile, Complex as you want it, though character gen can be lengthy (DM's can obviously spend some time writing up a list of stock NPC's and recycle them - "oh no! it's generic wizard 3!")

Dizlag

2007-01-23, 11:37 AM

I recommend Savage Worlds (http://www.peginc.com/Games/Games.htm) if you wanna try a very easy and very flexible gaming system.

It is extremely easy to "roll up" a characters and NPCs. It has a Fantasy Setting (http://www.peginc.com/Games/Savage%20Worlds/Evernight.htm), Superhero Setting (http://www.peginc.com/Games/Savage%20Worlds/Necessary%20Evil.htm), Wild West Setting (http://www.peginc.com/Games/Deadlands%20Classic/Deadlands.htm), Swashbucker / Age of Sail Setting (http://www.peginc.com/Games/Savage%20Worlds/50%20Fathoms.htm), and others including a Victorian Age monster hunter setting called Rippers (http://www.peginc.com/Games/Savage%20Worlds/Rippers.htm). They've also got books that will help create your own setting. There's also a community that has made Conversions (http://www.savageheroes.com/conversions.htm) of other systems to Savage Worlds as well. They've got a pretty good Serenity / Firefly universe conversion there that I might run for my group.

Try out the Test Drive (http://www.peginc.com/Games/Savage%20Worlds/Downloads/SW%20Rev/TestDrive4.pdf) of the system to see just how simple it is. I really like the ruleset because it's a total change from D&D. Their rulebooks are also broken out into Player's Guides in PDF format for on the cheap downloads for the college budget I'm familiar with as well. =)

Good luck,

Dizlag

clarkvalentine

2007-01-23, 11:43 AM

Painless NPC generation? Superheroes (or the functional equivalent thereof)? Quick and easy?

You want Spirit of the Century. :smallbiggrin: http://www.evilhat.com/?spirit

Spirit of the Century is a complete, stand-alone pulp role-playing game based on the award-winning Fate system (Indie RPG Awards include: Best Free Game of 2003, Best Support, and Andy's Choice). Spirit features a heavily revised, revisited, and reimagined vision of Fate. Character creation can be done as quickly as a few minutes, or expand to take up an evening; adventure design is a snap with three methods for creating relevant, flavorful, player-focused stories at a moment's notice. Spirit's mission is to deliver an evening of fun, a "pick-up" game that requires little preparation, but provides hours of entertainment.

pestilenceawaits

2007-01-23, 11:56 AM

I really liked the Alternity system by TSR it is outdated and can be found cheap but it was a ton of fun to play.

Telok

2007-01-23, 03:32 PM

Here, I'll scare you... Traveller

I'm talking the old one that was written up in the late 70's. Covers alot of sci-fi and is easily adapted to any setting and reality level. I'd suggest totally ignoring the spaceship rules and making up your own, or let the guy who is majoring in some sort of engineering bring his calculator in for the time/distance/fuel calculations. On the plus side the basic book does provide the equations for you.

Character creation can be five mnutes easily, or 15 seconds if you look at Traveller Supplement 1, 1001 Characters. Included are stats for James diGriz, Darth Vader, Harry Mudd, and Beowulf Shaeffer.

Very flexable and old-style (read vague or missing rules for the GM to make up for plot improvement) system.

Fax Celestis

2007-01-23, 03:37 PM

I'll pimp Everway on this one. No dice, and the characters' sheets are so simple, you can mock one up in ten minutes. Everything's beholden to the story, and conflict is resolved with a tarot deck.

Thomas

2007-01-23, 05:26 PM

Here, I'll scare you... Traveller

I'm talking the old one that was written up in the late 70's.

...

Character creation can be five mnutes easily, or 15 seconds if you look at Traveller Supplement 1, 1001 Characters. Included are stats for James diGriz, Darth Vader, Harry Mudd, and Beowulf Shaeffer.

Oh, I know Traveller. It's the game where you can randomly die during character creation and have to start over with a new character. What. The. Hell.

Talk about old school RPGs! Gah.

Flawless

2007-01-23, 05:50 PM

I'd recomment Stormbringer. It's based on Chaosium's d100 system and very easy. NPC creation is fast and the setting is one of the best I know. But you ought to know Michael Moorcock's novels...

Yakk

2007-01-23, 05:53 PM

Why jump off the deep end -- try a different fantasy game next.

I'm enjoying http://www.epicrpg.com/ -- skill based fantasy system that has alot of mechanical parallels with d20, so you won't be too shocked.

Stormcrow

2007-01-23, 05:56 PM

Shadowrun is key "chummer" (Shadowrun term for friend).
It's a D6 system and its about as far from D&D as i've ever been. Its a barrel of laughs and lets you do the increadible in day to day life.

Thomas

2007-01-23, 05:56 PM

I'd recomment Stormbringer. It's based on Chaosium's d100 system and very easy. NPC creation is fast and the setting is one of the best I know. But you ought to know Michael Moorcock's novels...

Stormbringer is the older, long out-of-print version. Elric! is the newer version, and much better (with a bunch of cool supplements). That might be out of print by now, too - in fact, since it was a Chaosium game, it almost certainly is.

RuneQuest - either the old 3rd edition, or Mongoose's new edition - is much better, and is the "original" BRP game (BRP = "Chaosium's d100 system"). Glorantha is, plain and simple, the best game-world ever. HeroQuest is set in Glorantha, too, but the system is completely different, focusing on story and style over mechanics - in fact, HQ only has two resolution systems (simple and extended) for any sort of conflict, whether it's combat, climbing, debate, or magical duel.

Dark

2007-01-23, 07:17 PM

Oh, I know Traveller. It's the game where you can randomly die during character creation and have to start over with a new character. What. The. Hell.

Talk about old school RPGs! Gah.
Heh. I was reading Fire, Fusion, and Steel again today, which is a sourcebook for designing spaceships for Traveller. Let me just quote you a paragraph about the Stutter Drive, which has markedly different performance characteristics at certain levels of ambient gravity.

It is easy for a referee to determine at what distance from a planet or a star these cut-off points are. Simply divide the body's surface gravity by 0.1G or 0.0001G (depending on which distance you wish to know), take the square root of that value, and multiply it by the radius of the body in kilometers. The result will be the distance in kilometers from the body's core at which the cut-off points are located.
Now... at what point should you add the +2 circumstance bonus? :smallsmile:

I like the emphasis on how easy it is.

Thomas

2007-01-24, 07:30 AM

I don't mind mathematics myself (I enjoy GURPS Vehicles, GURPS Space and GURPS Robots), but yeah. That's not exactly easy or simple. They actually expect you to do astrophysics.

DeathQuaker

2007-01-24, 07:44 AM

Someone mentioned Feng Shui -- awesome game, especially if you want a game with a strong cinematic theme, and yes, char gen is awesome.

If you like anime-flavored sci fi (or whatever), BESM Tri-Stat is a lot of fun. Harder to find now that GOO has sadly kicked the bucket, but still.

Exalted is great for a fantasy with a notably different feel from D&D, and the char-gen system, like all White Wolf Storyteller based games, is very simple for both players and NPCs. Unfortunately, however, 2nd Ed didn't do a thing for it (I playtested 1st Ed, and they never fixed any of the problems we pointed out for first ed in 1st, and made all of them worse in 2nd).

But while we're on the subject of White Wolf, for sci-fi, AEON/Trinity was an awesome setting--good space opera, aliens, and a neat system for psychic powers. There's a d20 version out there, but I'd recommend the original Storyteller version over that--but again, hard to find. It will be officially called "Trinity" though the oldest copies will be labeled AEON (idiot creators of Aeon Flux sued White Wolf for the name, despite the fact that it obviously had nothing to do with it and you shouldn't be able to sue over a real word anyway; I always like to call it Aeon in spite of them). There's also the related Supers Storyteller game called Aberrant, but that never did anything for me (especially when you see what Aberrants are in Aeon--If I want to play a hero, I want to play a freaking hero, not a doomed-to-be-monster).

Darrin

2007-01-24, 09:34 AM

But while we're on the subject of White Wolf, for sci-fi, AEON/Trinity was an awesome setting--good space opera, aliens, and a neat system for psychic powers. There's a d20 version out there, but I'd recommend the original Storyteller version over that--but again, hard to find. It will be officially called "Trinity" though the oldest copies will be labeled AEON (idiot creators of Aeon Flux sued White Wolf for the name, despite the fact that it obviously had nothing to do with it and you shouldn't be able to sue over a real word anyway; I always like to call it Aeon in spite of them).

While you generally can't sue over a book title or a proper name such as a character name (these are specifically excluded from copyright protection), the issue was over using "Aeon" as a trademark. Aeon Flux had already established their name as a trademark, and those have to be aggressively protected or you can lose them either to another company or to public domain (i.e., "Aspirin" and "Kleenex").

While the creators of Aeon Flux were not actively selling a similar product in the RPG market, there is the issue that allowing another company to sell a product with a similar name could cause confusion with consumers who might think White Wolf had created an Aeon Flux game. Also, the Aeon Flux creators have a right to create and market games based on their work in the future, and their ability to use the word "Aeon" in relation to those products has to be legally protected. And while no one as far as I know created an official "Aeon Flux RPG", it wasn't exactly implausable, given that the setting would have made an interesting RPG, and the primary artist had done extensive artwork for the Underground RPG. As far as licensed RPGs go, it probably wouldn't have been a hard sell.

However, given all that... a fairly common name like "Aeon" that has already been in use for a variety of sci-fi titles should have been a pretty safe name for a sci-fi RPG, and had it gone to court, it probably would have been exceedingly difficult for the Aeon Flux creators to prove trademark dilution, much less sue for damages. If White Wolf had the legal resources to fight such things, it would have been a fairly easy case to dismiss. But just going to court can be exceedingly expensive, and RPG companies generally have very little or absolutely zero legal resources. They tend to immediately fold on just a "Cease and Decist" letter.

Arlanthe

2007-01-24, 09:50 AM

[QUOTE=Darrin;1883344](i.e., "Aspirin" and "Kleenex").
QUOTE]

"Aspirin" was meaningless until 1899 when a German company coined the term. "Kleenex" was also a meaningless until coined by a cotton products company in 1925. "Aeon" however, is a Latin (from the Greek Aion) word, meaning "eternity", and has been in existence for... aeons.

It's one thing to use "Aeon Flux"- a phrase previously meaningless prior to the creation of the character, and another just to use an ancient classical term on it's own. It drives me nuts when companies try and pin people on intellectual property rights issues where they have no business treading.

My company owns a product called "Solar-Gard". Why is it spelled in an absurdly stupid way? Because it's copyrightable. "Solar Guard" is not so. White Wolf should have stood their ground, and not let themselves be cowed. Cowards.

random11

2007-01-24, 09:58 AM

I'll be the third that recommends Gurps.
It is universal, easy to learn and play, and very easy to create characters with.

The only flaw is that sometimes it is over simplified, so you might need to think about some house rules if you want to fit it into a speific campaign.
I is only a minor flaw since unless you find EXACTLY the world you search for, it will require that work anyway.

Meschaelene

2007-01-24, 10:03 AM

Cyberpunk 2020.

I played Shadowrun for half a year, and thought it was really cool to play in a dark future kind of world. Then I played Cyberpunk and discovered what a dark future really was. I firmly support any game that has rules for selling a body for "spare parts", and that actively encourages you to think hard before making a decision about your badly wounded friends.

storybookknight

2007-01-24, 10:08 AM

I like Exalted, but it's very complex mechanically.

For a mechanically simple and unambiguous system, I second Savage Worlds. The people who wrote it were very creative - Heroism is an optional character flaw. It advertises as being "fast! fun! furious!" and while I'm not too sure about the whole 'fury' thing (I can just see a guy, veins popping out of his head anime-style, rolling dice for great justice) it fits the other two criterion pretty admirably.

ghost_warlock

2007-01-24, 10:22 AM

I really liked the Alternity system by TSR it is outdated and can be found cheap but it was a ton of fun to play.

Alternity gets my plug, too. It's honestly one of the best systems I've ever seen and it can be adapted, using only the core two books, to virtually any sort of sci-fi setting; past, present, or future. The Player's Handbook contains the basic rules plus rules for psionics, mutations, and cybergear. The Gamemaster's Guide provided environmental rules and monsters (as well as a slew of miscellaneous other things, such as alien artifacts). A supplement provided rules for magic and super powers ("FX"). A variety of other books were also published but aren't really neccessary.

In the past, I've played a number of different games using the Alternity system, everything from Star Wars to StarGate to ALIENS vs. Predator. Most of these were homebrew campaigns but it didn't take much work to adapt because the core books provide just about all the mechanics you'd need to do so. There was also a GammaWorld book published to play that campaign setting using Alternity rules (I prefer it to the recent d20 rules).

Mechanics overview:
Alternity's core mechanic is similar to d20 but sort of backwards - roll 1d20 but try to roll low. It's a system where rolling a natural 1 is actually desireable! To get the result of a roll, you modify the original d20 roll (called the "control die") by other dice in "step" bonuses or penalties. Normally, you'll only end up rolling two dice unless you're trying something fantastically difficult or ridiculously easy because you take into account all the step modifiers before deciding what die should be used to modify the control die. "Plus a step bonus for this, minus a two step penalty for that, nets me a single step penalty." A single step is +/-1d4, two steps are +/-1d6, three are +/-1d8, four are +/-1d12, five is +/-1d20 (keep adding d20's for steps beyond five). Bonuses are subtracted from the control die, while penalties are added to it.

A character's ability score + skill ranks determine target numbers for success (11 Dex + 4 skill ranks = 15 for an Ordinary success, 7 for a Good success, 3 for an Amazing success).

The system is a level-based skill system. A character starts with a number of points to place in his/her ability scores and a number of seperate points to place in skills and buy perks. Taking flaws gives more skill points. When a character levels, he/she receives a number of skill points to spend on...mostly skills. The character's health levels (analog to hp) don't change much as the character advances, which means that combat can remain fairly brutal even at high levels. At higher levels a player can spend skill points to buy perks, buy-off flaws, raise ability scores, and a few other things.
Wikipedia article. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternity)
Some homebrew stuff for Alternity. (http://www.geocities.com/wrarx/ALT.html) (Mostly player races.)

Golthur

2007-01-24, 10:29 AM

Oh, I know Traveller. It's the game where you can randomly die during character creation and have to start over with a new character. What. The. Hell.

Talk about old school RPGs! Gah.
I've heard good things about Traveller (never played myself), but I've never heard that one.

For some reason, I find that very, very funny :smile:. I'd likely think differently if I were playing, though...

Shisumo

2007-01-24, 10:29 AM

Thanks very much for the advice! I'll try to read the basic framework of a few of these at the good ol' Friendly Local Gaming Shop. I'm particularly intrigued by Mutants and Masterminds and Shadowrun, both of which I've seen but never read.

Now I just need to decide whether my players will be treated to a supers story or Dune with dice.

For supers, Mutants & Masterminds is the hands-down favorite. I've literally never encountered a system that does 4-color comics better (and supers gaming is something of a thing for me - at last count I owned 5 separate supers systems).

For Dune... that's trickier. There was, at one point, a Dune RPG, but it was utter rubbish. Traveller could probably do it, but Traveller's nothing if not complicated crunchwise - plus out of print. GURPS Space is another option, but - despite the statements of others here - I've found that GURPS' "as complicated as you want it to be" has a definite minimum level of complication that you have to be willing to accept, and it's higher than I'd prefer.

For speed of rules-learning and ease of chargen (PC and NPC both), I'd go ahead to suggest Savage Worlds. It's not a perfect system, but it's very crunch-lite and could probably handle Dune out of the box - you might have to build a few custom Edges to represent certain archetypes, but the Edge system's pretty intuitive and coming up with what you'd need would be the work of minutes.

Incidentally, while I love Shadowrun, and think SR4e has by far the best iteration of the ruleset (even if I'm less thrilled about the setting changes), I should point out that I don't think it would handle Dune without some serious effort - probably more effort than it would be worth it to do. SR's a fine game on its own, though, so if you like scifi/fantasy mixes but don't need them to involve Arrakis, SR's a wornderful choice.

clericwithnogod

2007-01-24, 10:43 AM

I'll throw out some favorites...

1) The aforementioned little black book Traveller. I hate math, but still enjoyed creating ships with it. And the more detailed character books (Mercenaries, High Guard, Scouts, etc.) are awesome.

2) FASA Star Trek, particularly if you use the character generation method here: http://www.compulink.co.uk/~mr-flibble/rpg/resources/index.html

Like a lot of licensed games at the time, it suffered from, "You can't be anywhere near as good as any of the characters that made you like this." The rules there let you make a competent and well-rounded character.

3) FASA Doctor Who, I mean it's Doctor Who, how can you not enjoy it.

4) DC Heroes, still the best superhero RPG ever to me.

5) Gamma World (the Alpha/Beta/Gamma/Delta/Epsilon Module edition).

The Star Frontiers 2000 web collaboration looks interesting too.

EDIT: The keep it simple kept me from mentioning this, but I really love Champions. And the resources at http://www.mactyre.net/archives/index.html provide great resources including fully developed heroes, villains, campaign settings and organizations. In particular, the Chessmen are worth looking at... You could run years of adventures and never create anything yourself.

Sulecrist

2007-01-24, 10:50 AM

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, if you don't mind getting down and dirty. It's got drunkenness, plague, and insanity. If you're familiar with the Warhammer miniatures game, the setting is similar but it's a bit grittier--PM me if you want more information.

It's very streamlined, by the way, and combat is very, very dangerous.

Jewel Thief

2007-01-24, 10:58 AM

I'd also recommend Mutants & Masterminds, like Fireball.Man.Guy. I've played it with friends and have had lots of fun. It doesn't just have to be superheroes, too, but supports a broad range of genres (with a little tweaking and thought).

Telok

2007-01-24, 11:00 AM

I've heard good things about Traveller (never played myself), but I've never heard that one.

For some reason, I find that very, very funny :smile:. I'd likely think differently if I were playing, though...

It's one of those things that's both true and untrue. You see, there really is a survival roll during each term enlistment in character creation. And the very next sentence is about the "optional rule" where the referee or the player can decalre that instead of being killed that character was injured and got to retire.

As for the astrophysics stuff, I just worked up a simplified chart that skipped the math. Unless you really wanted a hard science backing for all the ships, your planets, and travel between them the math was pretty much optional. Even people's complaints about the orginal hexadecimal character notation system were pretty silly since you never had to use it if you didn't like it.

What I really like is that the game is in reprint from Far Future Enterprises.

Darrin

2007-01-24, 11:21 AM

It's one thing to use "Aeon Flux"- a phrase previously meaningless prior to the creation of the character, and another just to use an ancient classical term on it's own. It drives me nuts when companies try and pin people on intellectual property rights issues where they have no business treading.

The difference between a primary or secondary trademark isn't worth going into here, but to summarize it's generally easier to trademark something if the term is not previously in use anywhere or if you're using a common term that is completely unrelated to the product - for example, the concept of "apple" generally has nothing to do with computers.

My company owns a product called "Solar-Gard". Why is it spelled in an absurdly stupid way? Because it's copyrightable. "Solar Guard" is not so. White Wolf should have stood their ground, and not let themselves be cowed. Cowards.

Actually, it's not copyrightable, but trademarkable. Copyright generally refers to an artistic work, but not necessarily a commercial product. The title of a copyrighted work can't be protected under the copyright. You can trademark a title, however. Trademarks are the trade dress, marketing materials, and graphic/media representations used to market a product (which may or may not be considered an artistic creation).

Most RPG companies have absolutely *ZERO* dollars dedicated to defending their legal rights. When even challenging a Cease & Decist letter means $ > 0, the best solution that keeps products moving out the door is to comply. Yes, legally they might have had an easy case, but most lawyers will be the first to tell you the cost won't be worth it even if the case was an easy win.

Gaming companies and lawsuits generally have a very bad, dark history. Everybody pretty much loses, and even if you do win, the cost isn't worth it.

artaxerxes

2007-01-24, 11:50 AM

Thomas

2007-01-24, 04:24 PM

Cyberpunk 2020.

Best cyberpunk game there is, unless you can find GURPS Cyberpunk and feel like doing the work required to actually run and play GURPS.

Make sure it's 2020, too - the new third edition (203X) is absolute crap, and not worth a penny. It hasn't got a single thing over 2020, and is missing a lot of what made 2020 great.

I've heard good things about Traveller (never played myself), but I've never heard that one.

For some reason, I find that very, very funny :smile:. I'd likely think differently if I were playing, though...

The odds aren't small, either. I think it's like 10% at the end of each four-year term. (I haven't perused by rulebook for a while.)

Mind you, the world is very cool; and GURPS Traveller is probably a great use of GURPS. Like Telok mentions, the game's been reprinted (in rather oddly-shaped books, though).

Dark

2007-01-24, 04:54 PM

Premier

2007-01-24, 05:12 PM

I second MrNexx's nomination of D6 Star Wars. Very easy to create characters, absolutely simple and completely unified game mechanics. Furthermore, I've found it very malleable - if you wish, you can convert it to any other sci-fi setting with minimal fuss. Or, I guess, to non-sci-fi settings as well.

MrNexx

2007-01-24, 05:18 PM

Yes; I've found D6 Star Wars to be very easy to use for fantasy, as well as sci-fi. Throw out rules about Dark Side of the Force and suddenly you have fireball-throwing wizards who are pumping their Force skills while others have to up their Melee skills.

Thomas

2007-01-25, 05:38 AM

For the people recommeding GURPS: Do you recommend 3rd or 4th edition? I've been eyeing both, but because I've never played it I don't know how significant the differences are. The 3rd edition has a lot more sourcebooks, but I'm afraid of buying into a system that will be superseded.

Fourth, just because the two basic rulebooks are so much better. You get some 3-4 3rd-edition books' junk.

And the 3rd edition sourcebooks are still perfectly compatible with the new edition - some point costs may have changed, but that only affects the 5 or so pages that list advantages or character stats. GURPS Cyberpunk, for example, is almost entirely instructions on how to actually run a cyberpunk game, and can be used as a reference for practically any system.

Also, anyone who likes sci-fi and tries out GURPS should get GURPS Transhuman Space. It is byoo-ti-ful.

JellyPooga

2007-01-25, 07:47 AM

I started playing Traveller once...but stopped after about half an hour when I realised that my aged veteran, after a lifetime of war, started the game being an alright shot with a rifle, can just about maintain a car and knows a little first aid...ummm yeah...ok. I prefer a game where my character can actually do stuff after character gen.

I do like Cyberpunk 2020 though. V.Gritty if played right. Best line in the whole book?
[On the subject of cosmetic surgery after listing the cost for raising your Attractiveness attribute] "If you want to lower your ATTR, a straight razor costs 59c."
It made me laugh.

Thomas

2007-01-25, 08:46 AM

If one does play Cyberpunk 2020, though, you have got to get Listen Up, You Primitive Screwheads! and use the alternative damage and armor rules (the rest of the combat rules aren't that important). It's the only way to make combat work. Otherwise, skinweave (advanced SP 14+ skinweave especially) and an SP 20 armored jacket (cheap, easy to get, and only has a REF penalty of -2 or so) will make a character immune to all handguns and most rifles, unless the enemy always uses Reaper rounds or something...

Ethdred

2007-01-25, 09:37 AM

Yeah, old school Traveller was fun. I never really noticed the maths problem, but then I like maths, so maybe I just took it in my stride. The character gen was idiosyncratic to say the least, but also fun - you actually got a feel for your character rather than having to be yet another orphan out to avenge his parents. In answer to the point about why can't you do anything after all that experience - in Traveller you are never really good at anything. It is a very 'realistic' (ie non-fantasy) system. It took me ages, as a long time D&D player, to get to grips with how deadly the combat is.

Runequest is also worth checking out, though I haven't seen the new d20 rules

Thomas

2007-01-25, 10:40 AM

They're not d20 rules for RuneQuest. It's BRP RuneQuest, just made and published by Mongoose (Issaries, Inc. still holds the trademark). There's been some changes in the mechanics (opposed skill or characteristics tests work), but the basic system is still the same as always. I'm having no trouble at all using old spells, cults, and monsters - I just need to rearrange the skills (since they redo the available array of skills every time; this time, they've cut down on the number of skills, which is good).

The fact that there's now a RuneQuest SRD (the basic book, the Companion, and the monster book are available free in text format, here (http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/home/series.php?qsSeries=39)) may confuse some people, but it just means there's an SRD. Minor publishers (mostly online PDFs) have already taken advantage of this opportunity and put out tiny little supplements. The Glorantha: the Second Age stuff will be coming from Mongoose (as will the Lankhmar stuff), and that's the most important part anyway (especially when spirit magic and proper cult rules are in those books). The Third Age Glorantha stuff is still coming out through Issaries, Inc. and SJG.

Fax Celestis

2007-01-25, 10:45 AM

You know, I'll say it over here too. Am I the only person who played Everway and liked it?

Hoggmaster

2007-01-25, 10:46 AM

I will give a second for WFRP. Very simple mechanics (% roll equal or under relavant statistic = success). Character creation is laborious but detailed.

Thomas

2007-01-25, 10:51 AM

I wouldn't say WFRP chargen is laborious. Roll a bunch of dice for your stats, pick a race, roll some talents, pick/roll a profession, jot down your skills... you're done.

Jayabalard

2007-01-25, 01:41 PM

I suppose I could suggest GURPS.

I think of it as being "as complex as you want it to be," and once you get the basics down you can expand it to any setting.I second the suggestion.

Point based character creation, and everything else uses a simple roll 3d6 mechanic.

Basic rules are quite simple, but you can get as complicated as you want. There are zillions of source books, so it's not hard to getting exactly the flavor of campaign that you want, but isn't so book dependant that you need much more than the basic set (which I think has been split since I last bought books, into a character and a campaign book) and then a whatever books or 2 for the genre(s) that you want.

for Dune, you might draw on: Space, Martial Arts, Cyberpunk, vehicles, ultratech, supers, psionics, etc, but you could probably manage just fine with just a couple of those.

Count Chumleigh

2007-01-25, 11:19 PM

One game you should definitely try to lay hands on is White Wolf's Adventure! Tales of the Aeon Society. Not only is it a loving tribute to the old pulps and serials of the 1920's, it is unique among the RPGs I have encountered in that it has an elaborate, well-executed system of rules for breaking the rules in the name of pulling off the amazing coincidences you see in those films. (Arguably, Mage does the same thing, but the operative phrase here is "well-executed," which I don't think Mage is.) For instance, that assassin who just leaped out from the shadows at you might just happen to be your old boarding-school chum and decide to spare you. Or there might miraculously be an extra parachute in the emergency locker. Or you might happen to be driving Professor Farnsworth's experimental submersible car--on loan from the university, of course--when the dam breaks. All in all, Adventure! is a wonderful system--onle of the few perfect games I have ever encountered.
Other than that, um ... the Serenity RPG is quite good, and Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed and Arcana Evolved, while using the D&D ruleset, feel a lot different from traditional D&D.

Cheers,
--Count Chumleigh

P.S. Oh, and Werewolf: the Apocalypse is alright if kept simple, so if you can find a used copy of it online and are willing to stay away from all the blankety-blank supplements you might enjoy it.

Ethdred

2007-01-26, 09:08 AM

One game you should definitely try to lay hands on is White Wolf's Adventure! Tales of the Aeon Society. Not only is it a loving tribute to the old pulps and serials of the 1920's, it is unique among the RPGs I have encountered in that it has an elaborate, well-executed system of rules for breaking the rules in the name of pulling off the amazing coincidences you see in those films. (Arguably, Mage does the same thing, but the operative phrase here is "well-executed," which I don't think Mage is.) For instance, that assassin who just leaped out from the shadows at you might just happen to be your old boarding-school chum and decide to spare you. Or there might miraculously be an extra parachute in the emergency locker. Or you might happen to be driving Professor Farnsworth's experimental submersible car--on loan from the university, of course--when the dam breaks. All in all, Adventure! is a wonderful system--onle of the few perfect games I have ever encountered.

I played something like that once - it might have been GURPS, but it was a swashbuckler version. The adventure was set in the English Civil War, but had lots of flavour from 3 Musketeers/Errol Flynn etc. You basically had a better chance of suceeding depending on how ludicrous your idea was, and there was always a handy rope/chandelier/curtain/whatever to swing on impressively. I only played it once but it was good fun

Ethdred

2007-01-26, 09:10 AM

Dairun Cates

2007-01-30, 01:32 AM

I'd like to start a game with a different ruleset in the near future. I've never played any roleplaying system but D&D, and I'm interested in trying a new system that may suit my tastes and those of my players better. Which systems do you guys like? I'm interested in a system that:

Allows for relatively painless NPC generation. I'm sick of spending an hour and a half statting out a caster only to watch him die after three rounds of combat. DMGenie and related programs go a long way, but I'm looking for something a bit less time-consuming.
Supports a sci-fi or superhero storyline. Fantasy is cool, but after four years of D&D I want a little variety at the table.
Can be learned without hours and hours of study. We're all in college, and if there's one thing my players don't want, it's extra reading.

Your thoughts?

Well, For relatively painless NPCs:
Risus, Paranoia, BESM (if you use templates), The Marvel Universe RP system (just put down some numbers), Feng Shui, In Nomine's also pretty easy if you can find it, and Serenity

Sci-fi or Superheroes:
Risus, Paranoia, ... Okay. Fine. The same list, but add Heroes, Fuzion, BESM d20, DC Heroes, Star Wars d20, and Exalted

Learned Quickly:
Most of the above can be learned easily and understanding d20 makes most of the stuff out there already learned for you.

Ultimately, it depends on exactly what you want to do and how over the top you like to be. Personally, I've run a lot of those system or have at least read them thoroughly. Risus is great fun but best for one shots. Ditto Paranoia. BESM is cheesy and fun as hell but makes for horrible balancing issues (3E fixed some of it, but not nearly all).

I'd say to go ahead with something like Exalted or Feng Shui for over the top antics, or maybe In Nomine for some good old fashion angels versus demons. If you trust your players, BESM is super fun. I have also heard wonderful things about mutants and masterminds, and I LOVE the dice rolling mechanic for Serenity which uses only skills and attributes and opposed rolls. If you're a little more specific, I know a lot of other GM's and could search for something PERFECT for you. But yeah, welcome to the world of GM's that own multiple systems.