Owl's Insight variants (3.5)

[D4rkh0rus]

Im not sure if they exist, but are there spells like owl's insight that affect other attributes? (like dex or intellect)

[TrueJordan]

Im not sure if they exist, but are there spells like owl's insight that affect other attributes? (like dex or intellect)

Yeah, there's
Cat's Grace, for Dex
Fox's Cunning, for Int
Bull's Strength for Str
Bear's Endurance for Con
and Eagle's Splendor for Cha

Edit: But these aren't variants, they're different spells. Different classes have different ones, I don't think any classes have all of them (barring the crazy classes that can learn any spell forever)

[IAmTehDave]

And for Psionics, there's Animal Affinity. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/animalAffinity.htm) Which is all of those wrapped into one power.

Edit: Except you can augment it, but it can't affect allies. So there's that. :smallannoyed:

[TrueJordan]

Also it's 'Owl's wisdom'. And I just realized, since it's an enhancement bonus, that means it doesn't stack with magic items? Dammit! I've been playing wrong all this time...

[Hamste]

Also it's 'Owl's wisdom'. And I just realized, since it's an enhancement bonus, that means it doesn't stack with magic items? Dammit! I've been playing wrong all this time...

No, it is Owl's insight it is a different spell that gives an insight bonus. It is a 5th level spell from the spell compendium

[Phelix-Mu]

Owl's insight v owl's wisdom.

Owl's wisdom 2nd level and is +4 enhancement to Wis, lasts for min/CL. The one has the other versions for each ability score.

Owl's insight is 5th level, SpC, grants insight bonus to Wis= 1/2 CL and lasts one hour. This one has no conjugates, and rightly so, as it is right borked. CL pumping is so easy at high levels that you can pretty easily bust out CL30 at 20, giving oneself a whopping +15 insight bonus to Wis, which stacks with just about everything, and equates to a +7 or 8 to spell DCs.

Owl's insight is also druid only, but can be cast on anyone touched, just like owl's wisdom, except other classes can more easily get access to owl's wisdom (like, say, via periapt of wisdom).

[Deophaun]

Also it's 'Owl's wisdom'. And I just realized, since it's an enhancement bonus, that means it doesn't stack with magic items? Dammit! I've been playing wrong all this time...
No, he's referring to the spell owl's insight, which gives an insight bonus to wisdom based on CL.

And no, there are no similar spells for other ability scores. Wizards, bards, and sorcerers will find no joy here.

[Phelix-Mu]

No, he's referring to the spell owl's insight, which gives an insight bonus to wisdom based on CL.

And no, there are no similar spells for other ability scores. Wizards, bards, and sorcerers will find no joy here.

The spell is rather gratuitous, frankly. Tier 1s don't need the help, and the horror of a wizard version would be pretty intense (-40% chance that DCs are in a given target's range of possible rolls...I think that's how the math works). That's nuts.

And then we get into the wizard CL pumping tricks, and it's just about time to take a break and go get some pizza...the DM feels an aneurysm coming on.

[Deophaun]

The spell is rather gratuitous, frankly. Tier 1s don't need the help, and the horror of a wizard version would be pretty intense (-40% chance that DCs are in a given target's range of possible rolls...I think that's how the math works). That's nuts.
Very true. Even nuts for tier 3s. I had a dread necro/witch that had some ungodly DC because a)lots of things boost fear DCs and b) dread witches can add the [fear] descriptor to any spell with a visual effect. Just about anything equal to her ECL+4 was at serious risk of being killed by phantasmal killer, of all things. If there was a Charisma-based version of owl's insight, and she was under the effect of a greater consumptive field, well, I don't think there would be much that would have stood against her.

[Gemini476]

Owl's insight v owl's wisdom.

Owl's wisdom 2nd level and is +4 enhancement to Wis, lasts for min/CL. The one has the other versions for each ability score.

Owl's insight is 5th level, SpC, grants insight bonus to Wis= 1/2 CL and lasts one hour. This one has no conjugates, and rightly so, as it is right borked. CL pumping is so easy at high levels that you can pretty easily bust out CL30 at 20, giving oneself a whopping +15 insight bonus to Wis, which stacks with just about everything, and equates to a +7 or 8 to spell DCs.

Owl's insight is also druid only, but can be cast on anyone touched, just like owl's wisdom, except other classes can more easily get access to owl's wisdom (like, say, via periapt of wisdom).

Keep telling yourself that, if it helps you sleep at night. I can still hear the echoes of that terrible, terrible name: Wyrm Wizard Wyrm Wizard Wyrm Wizard

[Fouredged Sword]

and Archivist, and Chameleon.

If there was a version of this for all the stats, Gishes would laugh.

[Hamste]

and Archivist, and Chameleon.

If there was a version of this for all the stats, Gishes would laugh.

Build your character just right and you can get wisdom to everything that matters

[Chronos]

Other ability scores can still get decent bonuses, from various other sources (mostly from stacking bonuses of different types). Inner Beauty (FC1) gives a +4 sacred bonus to Cha and Dex. Holy Transformation (SC) gives +4 sacred to Str and Con. Divine Agility gives +10 enhancement to Dex. Bite of the Werebear (SC) gives +16 enhancement Str and +8 enhancement Con. Giant Size (CA) gives a +32 size bonus to Str and +12 size to Con. Minute Form (CA) gives a +12 size bonus to Dex (but is incompatible with Giant Size, of course). Greater Visage of the Deity (SC) gives an untyped +4 Str, +2 Dex, +4 Con, +2 Int, +4 Wis, +4 Cha.

So if you have all of the buff spells you want, your ability bonuses can be up to:
Str: +56 (+16 enh, +32 size, +4 sacred, +4 untyped)
Dex: +28 (+10 enh, +12 size, +4 sacred, +2 untyped)
Con: +28 (+8 enh, +12 size, +4 sacred, +4 untyped)
Int: +6 (+4 enh, +2 untyped) (or +8 if you use a headband instead of a spell for enhancement)
Wis: +8+CL/2 (+4 enh, +4 untyped, +CL/2 insight) (or +10+CL/2 if using a periapt)
Cha: +12 (+4 enh, +4 sacred, +4 untyped) (or +14 with a cape).

Int is really the only one you can't easily pump to stratospheric heights.

[Hamste]

All of those last for rounds (or a minute in the case of the form spells) or have a somewhat expensive component. The result is that those are incredibly inefficient buff cycle for combat as they would rarely last from one combat to the next and it requires several high level (or a couple multiclassed) casters to accomplish. Owl's insight has no expensive material component and lasts an hour so a single casting may last multiple combats. Of course wisdom benefits are not overly large that massive boost to dc and will saves could be somewhat useful.

[peacenlove]

Bump your previous enhancement scores to int and wisdom by 4 with Necrotic empowerment at 15th level

[Chronos]

They're also from many different lists. I mentioned them mostly for the sake of high-op play (the same place that you'd get CL 40 Owl's Insight), where you're also likely to have methods available for accessing other spell lists and persisting spells.

[Segev]

Ah, the Necrotic Cyst line of spells. I want to play with them one day.

[Zanos]

Keep telling yourself that, if it helps you sleep at night. I can still hear the echoes of that terrible, terrible name: Wyrm Wizard Wyrm Wizard Wyrm Wizard

I'm not really sure how a large wis boost helps any arcane casters. There's no arcane Wis caster, last I checked.

[Segev]

I'm not really sure how a large wis boost helps any arcane casters. There's no arcane Wis caster, last I checked.

Geomancer.

[Hangwind]

Keep telling yourself that, if it helps you sleep at night. I can still hear the echoes of that terrible, terrible name: Wyrm Wizard Wyrm Wizard Wyrm Wizard

StP Erudite

[Phelix-Mu]

By the end of 3.5, they had dismantled any limiters that they had originally put on magic. Get any spell, anytime, as often as you want, on any class you want, for negligible cost (once you've broken WBL any one of a billion ways)...that wasn't how it originally was supposed to work, but, meh, such is the slippery slope of trying to sell more supplements.

[eggynack]

I think the real question is how owl's insight interacts with spell preparation. Owl's wisdom and similar spells have explicit rules against gaining bonus spells from the increased score, but insight notably does not have that. It's a pretty crazy thing.

[Phelix-Mu]

I seem to recall that I ruled that it doesn't give bonus spells, but I'm not sure if that was because I know that is some very cheesy cheese, or if that was because I had some kind of evidence.

There was this thing about spells cast in the past four hours counting against the total for the next day, but that doesn't seem pertinent now that I think about it.

In any case, I usually ruled that only permanent increases to ability scores (or those continuous effect, e.g., items) grant bonus spells. Doesn't it say that somewhere? Shouldn't it say that somewhere?

[DR27]

All of those last for rounds (or a minute in the case of the form spells) or have a somewhat expensive component. The result is that those are incredibly inefficient buff cycle for combat as they would rarely last from one combat to the next and it requires several high level (or a couple multiclassed) casters to accomplish.You are thinking about it wrong. That buff combination is not for you, its for creating a final boss fight. :p

[(Un)Inspired]

All of those last for rounds (or a minute in the case of the form spells) or have a somewhat expensive component. The result is that those are incredibly inefficient buff cycle for combat as they would rarely last from one combat to the next and it requires several high level (or a couple multiclassed) casters to accomplish. Owl's insight has no expensive material component and lasts an hour so a single casting may last multiple combats. Of course wisdom benefits are not overly large that massive boost to dc and will saves could be somewhat useful.

Really? It's not unreasonable to assume that the Druid adds his wisdom to ac. Additionally, getting wis added to ac again, to all saves and to attack and damage is pretty trivial.

Don't forget that many insane Druid spells allow saves. Just think about a Frostfell spell that's completely impossible to save out of.

[Phelix-Mu]

Don't forget that many insane Druid spells allow saves. Just think about a Frostfell spell that's completely impossible to save out of.

Frostfell is normally a very strong choice, but if a druid has gone to the trouble of pumping CL to get a big owl's insight off, then the situation really demands a bunch of huge save or dies, and few are bigger than some of the druid mainstays (firestorm, frostfell, fimbulwinter, control weater). In before eggy can mention boreal wind.:smallwink:

[eggynack]

Frostfell is normally a very strong choice, but if a druid has gone to the trouble of pumping CL to get a big owl's insight off, then the situation really demands a bunch of huge save or dies, and few are bigger than some of the druid mainstays (firestorm, frostfell, fimbulwinter, control weater). In before eggy can mention boreal wind.:smallwink:
Y'know what might actually work well for this one is control winds. CL boosting would pump both the wisdom bonus from owl's insight, and wind speed, preferably up to tornado levels. I do love a good boreal wind though. Also nifty among the area SoL's are call avalanche and red tide. You can even further parlay CL boosting into druid style holy word spells, like word of balance and leonal's roar. It's a nifty thing.

[Phelix-Mu]

Y'know what might actually work well for this one is control winds. CL boosting would pump both the wisdom bonus from owl's insight, and wind speed, preferably up to tornado levels. I do love a good boreal wind though. Also nifty among the area SoL's are call avalanche and red tide. You can even further parlay CL boosting into druid style holy word spells, like word of balance and leonal's roar. It's a nifty thing.

Can you metamagic rod Chain Spell a drown? I seem to remember doing that once or twice, as opposed to using the mass version.

In any case, can wyrm wizard really get a druid only spell? I thought they had to get it from a dragon.... Of course, knowing WotC, there is a dragon out there with access to the druid spell list. Lol, give all the goodies to the dragons, then make up stuff that allows the pcs to cherry pick off of the dragons. Classic.

Mind you, dragons were awesome in 2e, but nowhere near as much support material for dragonesque stuff as there is in 3.5. Somehow, it all seemed less broken back then (likely because houserules were mandatory to avoid the labyrinthine idiosyncrasies of the 2e ruleset).

[eggynack]

Can you metamagic rod Chain Spell a drown? I seem to remember doing that once or twice, as opposed to using the mass version.
I don't know if such a rod exists, but if it were to exist then I suppose that's feasible. Either way, out of the list of druid SoD/SoL's, I'd generally prefer something like mummify or baleful polymorph. Also maybe dire hunger.


In any case, can wyrm wizard really get a druid only spell? I thought they had to get it from a dragon.... Of course, knowing WotC, there is a dragon out there with access to the druid spell list. Lol, give all the goodies to the dragons, then make up stuff that allows the pcs to cherry pick off of the dragons. Classic.
I'm not all that sure on that account. I mostly just know dragon stuff as it relates to dragon wild shape, which is a rather limited swath of dragon knowledge. It's pretty cool dragon knowledge though.

[(Un)Inspired]

Ok so now the really question is; what is the best way for a Druid to boost caster levels?

[eggynack]

Ok so now the really question is; what is the best way for a Druid to boost caster levels?
Well, you obviously have to start with a prayer bead of karma on any CL boosting adventure, and orange ioun stones are a classic. Past that, this list (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1054346) seems like a decent place to start.

[WhamBamSam]

In any case, can wyrm wizard really get a druid only spell? I thought they had to get it from a dragon.... Of course, knowing WotC, there is a dragon out there with access to the druid spell list. Lol, give all the goodies to the dragons, then make up stuff that allows the pcs to cherry pick off of the dragons. Classic.I'm not sure if there's a type of dragon that gets Druid spells natively, but the Child of Eberron Sovereign Archetype grants access to the Druid spell list. So yes, Wyrm Wizards can get it, and by extention StP Eriudites can get it as well and pass it on to any of the other Psionic Classes via Psychic Chirurgery.

This in turn could lead to an analogue of sorts to Owl's Insight for the Physical Ability scores, in answer to the OPs original question, since a Psionic character could also learn Psychofeedback and funnel the Wis increase into Str, Dex, or Con. They'd need to persist Psychofeedback though since it's only rounds/level, and I really can't see it being worthwhile.

[Gemini476]

I'm not sure if there's a type of dragon that gets Druid spells natively, but the Child of Eberron Sovereign Archetype grants access to the Druid spell list. So yes, Wyrm Wizards can get it, and by extention StP Eriudites can get it as well and pass it on to any of the other Psionic Classes via Psychic Chirurgery.

This in turn could lead to an analogue of sorts to Owl's Insight for the Physical Ability scores, in answer to the OPs original question, since a Psionic character could also learn Psychofeedback and funnel the Wis increase into Str, Dex, or Con. They'd need to persist Psychofeedback though since it's only rounds/level, and I really can't see it being worthwhile.

Psionic characters have a harder time boosting ML, though, so you're looking at maybe +13-ish?