Malevolence and ghostly grasp question

[Uncle Pine]

Malevolence (Su)
Once per round, an ethereal ghost can merge its body with a creature on the Material Plane. This ability is similar to a magic jar spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicJar.htm) (caster level 10th or the ghost’s Hit Dice, whichever is higher), except that it does not require a receptacle. To use this ability, the ghost must be manifested and it must try move into the target’s space; moving into the target’s space to use the malevolence ability does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The target can resist the attack with a successful Will save (DC 15 + ghost’s Cha modifier). A creature that successfully saves is immune to that same ghost’s malevolence for 24 hours, and the ghost cannot enter the target’s space. If the save fails, the ghost vanishes into the target’s body.

An ethereal ghost is incorporeal and thus can freely pass through walls and creatures. The same goes for his body's equipment, of which he has an ethereal copy. Now meet the Ghostly Grasp (http://dndtools.eu/feats/libris-mortis-the-book-of-the-dead--71/ghostly-grasp--1214/) feat, which allows an incorporeal character to wield, wear and use corporeal equipment while still being ethereal and incorporeal. What would happen if a ghost with Ghostly Grasp who isn't manifesting uses malevolence while wielding a weapon and/or wearing an armor?

A - Unless he drops his corporeal equipment he can't enter the target's space and thus can't use malevolence.
B - He can use malevolence and his corporeal equipment temporarily vanishes, reappearing at the end of malevolence.
C - He can use malevolence and his corporeal equipment somewhat appear on the target's person.

I'm asking this because I'm planning to use two ghosts as optional bosses in a stand-alone campaign I'm currently writing and I'd like to combine malevolence and Ghostly Grasp, but I can't figure out how the two of them would interact.

[Uncle Pine]

Spooky bump from the 3rd page.

[Rizban]

D - It mimicks the magic jar spell, causing the corporeal aspects of the ghost to fall to the ground "lifeless". The ghost must still be manifested to use malevolence due to that being a requirement of the ability.

[OldTrees1]

1) You must be incorporeal for Ghostly Grasp to allow you to wear and wield as if you were not incorporeal. So to use Ghostly Grasp you need to be manifested.

2) Malevolence requires the ghost to be manifesting.

3) Two corporeal creatures can occupy the same space. You do not need to drop your corporeal items when entering an enemy's space.

4) Magic Jar does nothing to your physical body if you have one. Malevolence has the incorporeal body vanish into the target's body.

Conclusion:
There are no rules for what happens to the corporeal items. However the implication is that the corporeal items would drop as the ghost vanishes into the target (since that is what would happen to a corporeal body).

[Urpriest]

While you're wielding the corporeal items, they're still on your person. I'd say they vanish into the target's body along with you.

[Uncle Pine]

I know it's highly improbable for this to work with armor (as they need to be worn, rather than wielded), but assuming that the corporeal equipment would simply drop as the manifesting incorporeal ghost fuse with the target, could the ghost hand his weapon over to his target as he uses malevolence in order to use it while possessing his target? It'd make a decent evil power-up. Although I'm not sure whether the action "to hand a weapon" is listed somewhere or not (I checked the Rule Compendium and it isn't there).

[Rizban]

4) Magic Jar does nothing to your physical body if you have one. Malevolence has the incorporeal body vanish into the target's body.

Conclusion:
There are no rules for what happens to the corporeal items. However the implication is that the corporeal items would drop as the ghost vanishes into the target (since that is what would happen to a corporeal body).I contest that you are wrong on this point. The very first line of Magic Jar states what happens to your body. Your soul leaves your body, leaving it lifeless, i.e. it's treated the same as a corpse.

In the case of malevolence, the ghost has no corporeal body to leave behind. The ghost effectively is the soul already. If it is wearing or holding anything corporeal, then the incorporeal "soul" would leave the corporal "body", dropping the items to the ground as it is left behind.

Since the ghost must be in the target's square, the items, with no (un)living body to support them, would fall to the ground "lifeless".

[OldTrees1]

I contest that you are wrong on this point. The very first line of Magic Jar states what happens to your body. Your soul leaves your body, leaving it lifeless, i.e. it's treated the same as a corpse.

I object to your word use ("contest"/"wrong") when you state your agreement with what I said.

[Rizban]

Eh, I was pointing out that it does specifially do something to the body, which you said it doesnt. That was my contention.

The rest was clarification of why things happen that way, not a statement against what you had said. I should have probably formatted that better, but I'm posting from a finicky mobile device that makes it difficult.

[OldTrees1]

Eh, I was pointing out that it does specifially do something to the body, which you said it doesnt. That was my contention.

The rest was clarification of why things happen that way, not a statement against what you had said. I should have probably formatted that better, but I'm posting from a finicky mobile device that makes it difficult.

It specifically does nothing to the body. It only mentions the body to differentiate the body from the soul (which it does stuff to).

However you interpret the specifically doing nothing as doing something. So we are in agreement about what happens despite having different definitions about what "does nothing" means.

Edit: I realize the tone in my previous post might have been miscommunicated. Imagine a :P or :) after it.

[Rizban]

Technically, I think we are both correct. It doesn't actively do something to the body, making you correct. It does, however, specify it as becoming lifeless, indirectly turning it into an object/corpse, making me correct. Either way, we are in agreement as to the outcome. :smallbiggrin: