Shock Trooper + Banzai Charge

[GhengisConrad]

Banzai Charge from Ronin of Complete Warrior

"Banzai Charge (Ex): The ronin has cast away the code of bushido and at least a measure of his own honor, but his heart still remembers the thrill of bravery. When a ronin of 2nd level or higher charges into battle, he can accept a variable penalty to his Armor Class and take an equivalent bonus on the damage roll. The normal —2 AC penalty for charging still applies and counts toward the bonus, but the ronin cannot accept a penalty smaller than —2 or larger than his base attack bonus. For example, a 2nd-level ronin making a banzai charge could take a —8 penalty to AC in exchange for a +8 bonus on the damage roll."

This has got to have some awesome kind of abuse synergy with Shock Trooper... no?

[limejuicepowder]

Not at all; one subsumes the other. Namely, shock trooper is (almost) strictly better than banzai charge since generally speaking Power Attack is going to give much better than 1:1 returns.

[Kelb_Panthera]

They stack but that doesn't really mean much.

If you're willing to take twice your BaB in penalties to AC then you get the boost to PA from shocktrooper and an extra X damage where X is equal to your BAB. Things that multiply your total damage will apply to the latter but things that only multiply power attack will not.

[FMArthur]

I think I recall at least one thread about this previously, or at least on a completely-sacrificing-AC topic. There were lots of options presented.

There ARE actually additional dangers to continuing further even after you've gotten past the point of everyone around you being able to auto-hit, if they want though. It means they can sacrifice their attack bonus for their own benefits, like fully power attacking, or hitting you with crossbow bolts from 1200 feet away. There are generally more ways to sack your attack rolls for benefit than there are for AC, so watch out. You never know when you might run into an enemy TWFing oversized weapons with feats optimizing his Power Attack damage. :smallwink:

Or someone in an archery prestige class hitting you from so far away that he has someone holding a telescope up to his eye.

[Gemini476]

They stack but that doesn't really mean much.

If you're willing to take twice your BaB in penalties to AC then you get the boost to PA from shocktrooper and an extra X damage where X is equal to your BAB. Things that multiply your total damage will apply to the latter but things that only multiply power attack will not.

Well, the standard -2 to AC from charging gets you +2 damage with Banzai Charge.

You still get more damage from THF+Storm Strooper, though. I suppose you could take -40 to AC to get +20+PA to damage, though, which could be pretty huge. Does Supreme Power Attack work with Storm Trooper? 'Cause +100 damage before Leap Attack and such is very nice. Even if it makes you more dangerous to your party than the BBEG.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Supreme power attack modifies power attack and shocktrooper modifies power attack in a different way. The former changes the exchange rate between attack and damage while the latter multiplies it. Thus, they do, in fact, stack very nicely.

However, supreme PA is only available to Frenzied Berserkers, as far as I know, and the risk of attacking your allies with those same damage values is both difficult to mitigate effectively and very likely to cause a serious problem, both in and out of game, if you don't.

[Garktz]

Supreme power attack modifies power attack and shocktrooper modifies power attack in a different way. The former changes the exchange rate between attack and damage while the latter multiplies it. Thus, they do, in fact, stack very nicely.

However, supreme PA is only available to Frenzied Berserkers, as far as I know, and the risk of attacking your allies with those same damage values is both difficult to mitigate effectively and very likely to cause a serious problem, both in and out of game, if you don't.

Unless you have Righteous Wrath (http://dndtools.eu/feats/book-of-exalted-deeds--52/righteous-wrath--2458/) and thus "You are perfectly able to deal nonlethal damage, stop your attacks to show mercy, and distinguish friend from foe even in the heat of your rage."

[Necroticplague]

Unless you have Righteous Wrath (http://dndtools.eu/feats/book-of-exalted-deeds--52/righteous-wrath--2458/) and thus "You are perfectly able to deal nonlethal damage, stop your attacks to show mercy, and distinguish friend from foe even in the heat of your rage."

But those are all benefits you gain while in a rage, while you risk attacking enemies in a frenzy, not rage.

[Khatoblepas]

But those are all benefits you gain while in a rage, while you risk attacking enemies in a frenzy, not rage.

You could begin raging whilst you're in a frenzy and be able to tell friend from foe then, maybe?

I mean, nothing is stopping you from raging and frenzying at the same time, AFAIK.

[Gemini476]

You could begin raging whilst you're in a frenzy and be able to tell friend from foe then, maybe?

I mean, nothing is stopping you from raging and frenzying at the same time, AFAIK.
I guess, since you're frenzy-addled mind probably realizes that "Hey, I could kill my party more effectively if I got EVEN MORE ANGRY". It's why you get a Merciful enchantment on your weapon, so you deal non-lethal and also +1d6 damage so that it's more effective at beating up your allies (but hopefully won't kill them.)

But yeah, Frenzy is just a TPK waiting to happen. Especially since taking any damage at all forces a Will save to not go into a Frenzy.
What I'm saying is that friends don't let friends place the Frenzied Berserker first in the marching order.

The big issue with Frenzied Berserker, pretty much, is that it makes you too good at killing things. And even if you put in holes so that you can be stopped, that's just waiting for the BBEG to Dominate you and have you kill your party! Earlier than you would have, that is.

Grease is pretty effective, though. I guess you'll stay prone and fling your sword at people or something?

[limejuicepowder]

Grease is pretty effective, though. I guess you'll stay prone and fling your sword at people or something?

I love the image of a frenzied berserker convulsing wildly on the ground, unable to get up and attacking anything. Hilarious.

[Gemini476]

I love the image of a frenzied berserker convulsing wildly on the ground, unable to get up and attacking anything. Hilarious.



While frenzied, the character cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Intimidate)

A creature can walk within or through the area of grease at half normal speed with a DC 10 Balance check. Failure means it can’t move that round (and must then make a Reflex save or fall), while failure by 5 or more means it falls (see the Balance skill for details).

Balance (Dex; Armor Check Penalty)

A-yup.

Of course, at that point "During a frenzy, the frenzied berserker must attack those she perceives as foes to the best of her ability." might be interpreted by a GM as making the Frenzied Berserker use Inspire Frenzy to make all allies within 10ft into miniature Frenzied Berserkers.


But yeah, imagine a large, grease-covered wolverine and you've pretty much got a Frenzied Berserker. Those guys are living blenders, and the best response to one trying to join the party is to ditch him while he's sleeping. (The INcorrect response is to either attack him or let him adventure with you. Both will kill you.)

[Piggy Knowles]

As others have said, they stack, but that's about it as far as synergy goes. I guess if you're already taking -15 or -20 to your AC for Shock Trooper, you might as well go whole hog and add this one in as well. After all, any sources of big solid chunks of damage like this really add up when you start taking into account multipliers like Valorous weapons, Headlong Rush, diving attacks and/or Battle Jump.

[Artillery]

I love the image of a frenzied berserker convulsing wildly on the ground, unable to get up and attacking anything. Hilarious.

"What do you mean the Frenzied Berserker has levels in Bloodstorm Blade... well this is going to suck"

[limejuicepowder]

"What do you mean the Frenzied Berserker has levels in Bloodstorm Blade... well this is going to suck"

Ok that would just be mean. They'd better have a good will save or pc's WILL die...

[Kelb_Panthera]

Unless you have Righteous Wrath (http://dndtools.eu/feats/book-of-exalted-deeds--52/righteous-wrath--2458/) and thus "You are perfectly able to deal nonlethal damage, stop your attacks to show mercy, and distinguish friend from foe even in the heat of your rage."


But those are all benefits you gain while in a rage, while you risk attacking enemies in a frenzy, not rage.

While righteous wrath -may- protect the berserker's allies that's an exalted feat. It comes with all the RP requirements that such status incurs and can be lost quite easily. There's also the very real possibility of the frenzy outlasting the rage if the player is careless.

It's worth noting that the feat's benefits may or may not actually overcome the frenzy. It's a question of which is more specific; frenzy's ally attacking clause or the feat's benefits. A DM could rule either way, though I -strongly- advise any DM's to rule that the feat's benefit takes precedence.