[3.5] Lost Tradition

[Thurbane]

Lost Tradition (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10203238&postcount=2) is a 3rd party 3.0 feat (from the book Bastards and Bloodlines) that can be taken only at 1st level, but sets all casting to any one stat of the player's choice (yes, even Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution). It is generally considered laughable to the point of being broken.

I was thinking of allowing a toned down and modified version for my own upcoming campaign, with the following changes:

The stat must be chosen from Int, Wis or Cha only.
The class to which it is applied may only be one with dual casting stats (Favored Soul, Archivist etc.)

Thoughts? Advice?

Cheers - T

[Gnome Alone]

Spending one of the 7-8 feats one gets to switch around casting stats seems worth it to me.

While I can agree that it is pretty ridiculous to cast from the physical stats (mah wizzard he only need CON -- blech) I could see it actually being pretty sweet for a paladin to cast through Strength.

How this would make any sense whatever I don't know. What a weird idea.

[Phelix-Mu]

If you are also allowing Faerie Mysteries Initiate to allow all Int-based casters to get Int to hp, then disallowing Con makes little sense.

Thematically, magic is a mysterious and little understood thing, working in unseen ways that are much more easily evoked by the intangible mental ability scores. But that's really just a fairly narrow tradition; in many other myths and so forth, magical effects can be produced by all manner of traits, from brute strength to speed that defeats the eye.

Finally, due to the nature of casting, most spells obviate combat, so having a caster with good stats for a melee build probably won't be as unbalanced as you think.

It's much, much more dangerous to allow more synergy among the mental casting stats. Int-based druids that then get early entry into Arcane Hierophant and pick up all the wizard utility, with none of the two-casting stat drawbacks. Sorcerer/psions. Wizard/ardents. Some of this is going to be ridiculously strong, and with the right mixing and matching of classes, there could be lots of unintended consequences.

But if you know your group and have a good idea of how they will take advantage of it or not, then it should probably work fine. Players will usually appreciate more acceptance of atypical builds (uncharismatic sorcerers, for instance).

[Thurbane]

If you are also allowing Faerie Mysteries Initiate to allow all Int-based casters to get Int to hp, then disallowing Con makes little sense.
That's a Dragon mag feat, right? And a regional feat from memory. No, that won't be in the game.

It's much, much more dangerous to allow more synergy among the mental casting stats. Int-based druids that then get early entry into Arcane Hierophant and pick up all the wizard utility, with none of the two-casting stat drawbacks. Sorcerer/psions. Wizard/ardents. Some of this is going to be ridiculously strong, and with the right mixing and matching of classes, there could be lots of unintended consequences.
Shouldn't be too much of an issue if I limit it to dual casting classes only. Archivist might be the only issue - most of the dual casting classes aren't that strong.

Also, in my campaign, Vancian casters are going to be discouraged (if not outright banned) to PCs.

But if you know your group and have a good idea of how they will take advantage of it or not, then it should probably work fine. Players will usually appreciate more acceptance of atypical builds (uncharismatic sorcerers, for instance).
It's a pretty low-op group, so mostly would just be used to alleviate the pain of classes like the Favored Soul.

[Rhynn]

How this would make any sense whatever I don't know. What a weird idea.

Intelligence: you use arcane formulae, lore, and logic to do magic.
Wisdom: you use intuition, enlightenment, personal experience of magic, and willpower to work wonders.
Charisma: you use sheer force of personality, will, your internal power, and personal connection to the world to work magic.
Constitution: you perform magic through rigorous exercise, physical self-discipline, and channeling the internal life-force within you.
Dexterity: it just looks like magic.
Strength: you HIT THINGS UNTIL MAGIC HAPPENS!

[Ravens_cry]

Ever watch Full Metal Alchemist?
THIS LOST TRADITION HAS BEEN PASSED DOWN THE ARMSTRONG FAMILY LINE FOR GENERATIONS!
***
Ok, but seriously, I can see magic based on the non-mental stat. Con-based is like ki, it's in your gut. Dex-based magic is moving with the flow of the universe and slipping a mickey under its nose. Strength based magic is Major Alex Louis Armstrong. Full stop (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BdQunJnrEw).
How does it work? How does all magic work?

[bekeleven]

There are a few other 3rd-party feats considered toned-down lost traditions. Academic Priest and Dynamic Priest, for instance, move casting stat for a divine class to int and charisma, but keep saving throws on wisdom.

[peacenlove]

You could look at the illumnian race in races of destiny. He utilizes racial sigils to base his bonus spells allotment to either strength or dexterity at 2nd level.

[Totema]

I dunno, I really like the idea of casting based on Strength. "I'm so brawny, I spend 6 hours a day at the gym! Booyah, Time Stop!"

[Rizban]

It's a pretty low-op group, so mostly would just be used to alleviate the pain of classes like the Favored Soul.if that's your goal, then just state that they can pick one of the two existing stats of the dual stat casters and base everything on that. As you've already said, those classes are fairly weak as is. There's no need to penalize them with a feat tax just to "fix" something that can be done with a simple, broad statement.

[Slipperychicken]

I dunno, I really like the idea of casting based on Strength. "I'm so brawny, I spend 6 hours a day at the gym! Booyah, Time Stop!"

I once played with a "muscle wizard" (the guy was literally a Wizard with 18 Strength) who basically did this. In the hands of the right player, the concept can be downright glorious.

[Big Fau]

Intelligence: you use arcane formulae, lore, and logic to do magic.
Wisdom: you use intuition, enlightenment, personal experience of magic, and willpower to work wonders.
Charisma: you use sheer force of personality, will, your internal power, and personal connection to the world to work magic.
Constitution: you perform magic through rigorous exercise, physical self-discipline, and channeling the internal life-force within you.
Dexterity: it just looks like magic.
http://tauntgamers.com/forums/uploads/monthly_02_2013/post-1606-0-33843900-1359798019.jpg

Fixed.

On-topic: I liked the earlier idea of letting Paladins cast from Strength, and I think restricting Lost Traditions to just the half-casters would be a great way to boost them. Spellthieves, Hexblades, and so forth, would all benefit greatly from being able to reassign their casting stat.

[geonova]

personally, i see nothing wrong with lost traditions, a thri-kreen ranger casting off of dex would be both thematically appropriate and also lessens the pain of an already MAD build. also it would own all of the elf rangers out there.

[Slipperychicken]

letting Paladins cast from Strength

Problem is that it portrays them as meatheads rather than wise holy warriors.

[Yawgmoth]

Problem is that it portrays them as meatheads rather than wise holy warriors.Players do a fine job of portraying paladins as meatheads on their own; allowing them to cast from Str just lets their stats reflect it.

(also it would cut down ever so slightly on MAD)

[Vaz]

BoEF's appearance! I can dominate everything in the universe because I'm beautiful!

[Slipperychicken]

Players do a fine job of portraying paladins as meatheads on their own; allowing them to cast from Str just lets their stats reflect it.

Touche.


BoEF's appearance! I can dominate everything in the universe because I'm beautiful!

To be fair, this is how many groups interpret Charisma.