OoTS timeline

[hamishspence]

Any thoughts on what amendments could be made to Wrecan's IMO very well researched timeline?


Okay, here's my revised Order of the Stick timeline (only for the timeline of the actual comics). All told, OOTS has been adventuring together almost two years (for about eight months of those Roy has been dead). And thanks to the singers of the musical "Rend" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0755.html), we know that the OOTSiverse has a 365-day year, which helps with the timing.

Superscript numbers represent the minimum number of days, based on what's stated in the comics. It could be a lot more.

According to 489, OOTS was formed in April 1183. They adventured for an indeterminate time before comic 1, however, which is no later than December 1183.

Dungeon of Dorukon
1Comics 1-15: Day One
2Comics 16-39: Day Two
3Comics 40-79: Day Three
4Comics 80-120: Day Four
* * * * * *
Resting in the village and to the Wooden Forest
4Comics 122-123: Day One
5Comics 123-146: Day Two
* * * * * *
This is probably continuous, since we've been watching every night's sleep, so 123-146 and 150-163 are probably the same day.
The Bandits
5Comics 150-163: Day One
6Comics 163-173: Day Two
* * * * * *
This is probably continuous, since we've been watching every night's sleep, so 163-173 and 175-185 are probably the same day.
The hex swamp
6Comics 175-185: Day One
7Comics 186-189: Day Two
* * * * * *
13Comic 339: Rookie Cop says Nale and Thog began their murder spree in Cliffport about this date.
* * * * * *
In 198, Belkar says it was weeks since the hex swamp
After the dragon hoard
21Comics 198-210: Day One
* * * * * *
Dirt Farmer
21Comics 211-221: Day One
22Comics 222-223: Day Two
* * * * * *
The Inn
22Comics 224-246: Day One
23Comics 247-251: Day Two
* * * * * *
In 403, Hinjo says Belkar has been incarcerated three weeks. Assuming, somehow, that Miko got them from the Inn to Azure City overnight, the earliest they would be incarcerated is day 24. It's probably longer, though.
* * * * * *
In 252, Nale says it has been weeks since they left OOTS in comic 173, which comports with what Belkar says in 198. Moreover, in comic 355, Julia says it's been 2 weeks since comic 257.
Azure City
32Comics 260-293: Day One
33Comics 293-298: Day Two
* * * * * *
In 306, V says it's been a "few days" of scribing books and, in 287, Celia says she needs to be back in class in a week (and she'll need a few days flying time, presumably).
Azure City, post-trial
36Comics 302-316: Day One
37Comics 317-320: Day Two
39Comics 321-338: Day Four (322: 2 days to get from AC to Oracle)
40Comics 340-367: Day Five
41-42Comics 387-391: Days Six and Seven (Elan and Thog on the Mechane)
43Comics 377-378: Day Eight (Sabine says it had been three days since they left Cliffport)
44Comics 379-386, 392-400: Day Seven
45Comics 401-417: Day Eight
46Comics 418-484: Day Nine (Per 489, this day is in March 1184, but comic 702 makes clear, this is earlier -- probably January or February 1184)
* * * * * *
Circa June 1184. Roy's Archon says Roy's been dead 103 days as of comic 498.
Heaven
149Comics 485-499: Day One.
159Comic 500: Day Ten. (Roy skipped down the mountain for nine days)
* * * * * *
Circa July 1184. It is "almost 4 months" since comic 484, and Kato is 8 weeks pregnant, which matches what Roy said about how long he's been in heaven.
Hinjo's Junk through Arriving in Greysky
159Comics 501-530: Day One
160Comics 531-532: Day Two
* * * * * *
There must be a delay between summoning Celia and the peace conference. We'll have to work backwards from comic 702, which somehow gives us a massive five month gap!
Haley, Celia and Belkar travel to the Oracle
336Comics 533-563: Day One
339Comics 564-572, 628: Day Three (two days from AC on 550 to Sunken Valley). This is the same day the ancient black dragon visits the Oracle.
346Comics 573-598: Day Ten (Haley says it's a week since the Oracle, and it is implied that Elan's arc continues on the Greysky City day)
347Comics 598-599: Day Eleven
* * * * * *
Horace mentions it's been weeks since comic 572, and Haley says it's been over a week since 598.
Battling the Greysky Thieves' Guild
355Comics 600-622: Day One
* * * * * *
Circa November 1184. In comic 643, Kazumi mentions V's visit to the fleet was "days" since a second sending spell (sent after Battling the Greysky Thieves' Guild)
V Makes a Deal and Roy Resurrected
358Comics 623-672: Day One (in comic 666, Roy estimates beating Xykon and goblins, and Belkar dying, in 7 weeks)
* * * * * *
In comic 678, Blackwing says it's been 2 days since V saw Inkyrius.
Traveling in the West
360Comics 673-685: Day One.
363Comic 686-692: Day Four (in comic 682, Roy says it would take "a few days" to get to the first oasis)
368Comic 692-698: Day Ten (comic 692 has a six-day montage)
* * * * * *
In comic 702, Redcloak says it is six weeks before the one-year anniversary of Azure City's conquest. The entry in the comic says it's "late 1184".
Gobbotopian Independence Day!
369Comic 699-709: Day One.
* * * * * *
In comic 720, Elan says it is "almost a year" from comic 463, which is day 46. That means comic 720 is no later than day 410, but it is not clear how close to day 410 this may be. Until we get more information, we assume one day passed between 709 and 710, but as much as four weeks may have passed.
The Empire of Blood
370Comic 710: Day One.
371Comic 711-727: Day Two (comic 710 is at night; 711 is day).
372Comic 728-747: Day Three (comic 728 begins at a bed and breakfast, and casters are refreshing spells)
373Comic 748-present: Day Four (747 is night; 748 is day. Also, in 739, the guard states that the parade is on the next day)

[David Argall]

A contradiction: Sabine arrives in Azure City on "day 8" in strip 377, but 392-400 are said to be "day 7". Since she can't take part in a fight before she arrives, 392-400 should be redated to 8-9+. [Dead space can almost always be added in. What we have here in most cases is the minimum date events could have happened at.]
Incidentally, I am unable to locate where Scoundrel's travel time to Azure City is given.

[hamishspence]

Elan broke out of prison "three and a half days earlier" (at night) the next day got on Julio's ship, and shortly afterward, Julio said it was "two days & two nights to Azure City":

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0391.html

[Sir_Leorik]

Any thoughts on what amendments could be made to Wrecan's IMO very well researched timeline?

It's well researched, but the presentation is a mess!

I think that we need to take as our starting point the entry of the OotS into the Dungeon of Dorukan, with everything before that being "X weeks ago" or "Y years ago" (the way it is in the prequel books), and everything after the OotS entering the Dungeon of Dorukan being "X days after" or "Y months after". The main problem with that is we have no clue how long the OotS adventured in the Dungeon of Dorukan between the Bonus Comics in DCF and Elan blowing up the Dungeon. It was probably weeks, but without the passage of day and night, with the Order resting based on how low V and Durkon were on spell slots (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0146.html), we can't be certain.

So maybe we could accurately date everything after Elan blows up the Dungeon, but not beforehand. And if we do try to determine a timeline, we need to choose a single benchmark (entering the Dungeon, blowing up the Dungeon, entering the small Town, etc.) and stick with it, which Wrecan did not do.

We also need to acknowledge that in a real timeline for a comic as complex as this one, events are going to overlap, not always occur in sequence. For example, while the OotS were adventuring in Wooden Forest, fighting Bandits and hunting Starmetal, Nale, Sabine and Thog had fled to Cliffport, and Xykon was busy restoring his body and gaining a new army. A good timeline would indicate that these events are happening simultaneously.

[Shale]

Yeah, I think the best thing to do is to take the DCF period as sort of a black box. We can date things in the prequels to X Days/Months/Years before they enter the dungeon, and we can date things from later books to X Days After The Explosion, but as far as I can tell there's nothing to say about the stuff that happened in the dungeon apart from the order in which it happened.

[hamishspence]

Makes sense.

We know at least (from Word of Giant) that the Battle of Azure City was "about a week" after the New Year- and the morning of "New Year's Day" (Day Two Post-Trial) was strip 317.

So, while the dates for the War & XPs period might be "minimums" - they can't be much higher, either.

[David Argall]

Elan broke out of prison "three and a half days earlier" (at night) the next day got on Julio's ship, and shortly afterward, Julio said it was "two days & two nights to Azure City":

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0391.html
Which means flight time was a minimum of 2 days, and is easily increased to 3.
Since Elan says Thog was only in jail for 40 minutes, we have a total of 3 1/2 days to play with.

[hamishspence]

Minus however long it took for dawn to arise, and for them to meet Julio.

[David Argall]

Minus however long it took for dawn to arise, and for them to meet Julio.
Which still means we have to redate the ship voyage to day 8-9.

[hamishspence]

How about:


Azure City, post-trial
Comics 302-316: Day One
Comics 317-320: Day Two
Comics 321-338: Day Four (322: 2 days to get from AC to Oracle)
Comics 340-367: Day Five
Comics 387-391: Days Six and Seven (Elan and Thog on the Mechane)
Comics 377-378: Day Eight (Sabine says it had been three days since they left Cliffport)
Comics 379-386, 392-400: Day Eight
Comics 401-417: Day Nine
Comics 418-484: Day Ten

[ChristianSt]

I think it would be much more useful if it had actually a timeline somewhere in it.

So more like
"Day ##A-##B / Date X: That happened"
"Day ##C-##D / Date Y: This happened"

The way it is presented right now doesn't really make it easy to see how much time passed from this event to that event. (E.g. to see how much time has passed between YABD and ABD I need to seriously crunch a lot of numbers myself)

Yes i know we don't have exact times for probably most of the stuff, but in that case we could display ranges (it should be possible to present some somewhat useful min/max days passed)

[David Argall]

How about:

Quote:
Azure City, post-trial
Comics 302-316: Day One
Comics 317-320: Day Two
Comics 321-338: Day Four (322: 2 days to get from AC to Oracle)
Comics 340-367: Day Five
Comics 387-391: Days Six and Seven (Elan and Thog on the Mechane)
Comics 377-378: Day Eight (Sabine says it had been three days since they left Cliffport)
Comics 379-386, 392-400: Day Eight
Comics 401-417: Day Nine
Comics 418-484: Day Ten
Comic 387-91 still need to be redated to Days 7-8, and maybe 8-9. Sabine has a busy day 5 in Cliffport, and then flies to Azure City, where we have another busy day. We can squeeze both days into one, but it does make for a very busy schedule that makes little allowance for predictable down time. [Arrival on the 8th requires the party to pretty much see the lord immediately, and we are all too aware of how much time we spend cooling our heels before we get to see Mr. Big.] So instead of arriving on Day 8 [in the late? afternoon], she could arrive the morning of the 9th. and allow for the expected petty delays.

A more serious worry, at least for the value of this thread, is that our writer may not be obsessed with the timeline. At least he has mentioned a timeline that is at least difficult to reconcile with our analysis. [This was a rather casual remark, and wasn't that different, and so he may pay more attention when doing the comic, but Belkar may have an extra day or 2 of life.]

[hamishspence]

Comic 387-91 still need to be redated to Days 7-8, and maybe 8-9.

Why? They begin "three and a half days earlier" - and the fight between Elan & Nale can feasibly be on the night of "Day Eight".

With "half a day" lapsing between Sabine's arrival in Azure City that morning, and Elan's arrival that evening.

The shorter the timeframe, the more consistent it is with the Battle of Azure City being "about a week after the New Year"

[David Argall]

Why? They begin "three and a half days earlier" - and the fight between Elan & Nale can feasibly be on the night of "Day Eight".
Which of course means the date needs to be changed from 6-7 to 7-8. Now as to why it should be 8-9...



With "half a day" lapsing between Sabine's arrival in Azure City that morning, and Elan's arrival that evening.
Actually 377 suggests 8-9. We have Sabine having taken 3 days = Day 8. We don't really know what time during the day, but since she was talking of it taking 4 days, we can view this as afternoon or later. Also we have the arrival of the Order. If they arrived before 9 am, they made camp almost within sight of the city walls. Now we can think of reasons they might stop with so little to go, but the presumption would be that they made camp when there was still a good distance to go, and thus arrived at the walls more like noon.
Then we have Roy saying "We'll be meeting with Shojo in the Morning." This is routine language when talking on Tuesday about a Wednesday meeting. It would also be normal when talking on Tuesday morning about a Tuesday afternoon meeting. But it is not normal to talk about a Tuesday morning meeting even on Tuesday morning. Roy might have said "We'll be meeting ... this morning." But "in the morning" means "the next day".



The shorter the timeframe, the more consistent it is with the Battle of Azure City being "about a week after the New Year"
But it is still within the range of consistent. And flashback times are more flexible since we can call any inconsistency just an error by the speaker.

[hamishspence]

Actually 377 suggests 8-9. We have Sabine having taken 3 days = Day 8. We don't really know what time during the day, but since she was talking of it taking 4 days, we can view this as afternoon or later.

We know at least that it was day when the Order finished their fights in Cliffport, but night when we cut to Elan in jail.

[David Argall]

We know at least that it was day when the Order finished their fights in Cliffport, but night when we cut to Elan in jail.
Which weakly suggests it was late in the day when the fight ended, which in turn argues it was late in the day when everybody arrived in Azure City, and Roy then says [in afternoon or evening] that they will see Shojo in the morning [next day].
But we are dealing with weak points and very small amounts of time.
So it is probably time to go to other points. So let’s look at the Western time line...

666- Roy says 7 weeks to end of year. [This should likely be much shorter. Roy dies on day 9 & is dead for 112 days, at which point our lass is 8 weeks along. She gives birth just before this and so 270+9+56=336 days have passed in the year. So Belkar only has 4 weeks. However, giving birth a month early is not a real shocker, and the date of conception is often misguessed. So we can’t call it definitely wrong, and can even give Belkar an additional weekend or so.
678-Party is in Sandsedge, and it has been two days.
682 party is leaving Sandsedge the same day. [The voyage, and the stay, should be notably longer, but both V in 677 and Durkon imply it is the same day.
Roy say the party will the party will be traveling with the caravan for a few days. “Few” is a very loose term, but 3 is a common definition, which would be leaving “Monday” & traveling “Tuesday-Thursday”[Day 3-5] before leaving the caravan on Friday [Day 6].
683-”Tuesday”. Durkon has had a chance to regain and cast spells, so it is the next day. [And not later since “forgot” is only good for the first time.]
687-”Thursday” as Roy mentions leaving the caravan in the morning
688-”Friday” [We can say later, but we would assume that Belkar eats the spice as fast as possible, and are probably surprised there was any left at dawn.]
690-Durkon talks of arriving in a few hours, which suggests it is still “Friday” and will be when they arrive.
692-shows 5 nights and 6 days [and can easily be assumed to just skip over a great many more]. So 693 would be day 11 or later.
697-evening of Day 11.
698-Haley say they will be walking for the next 4 days to leave the desert.
702-Redcloak talks of an attack a week ago. This seems to refer to V’s visit on Day zero or -1, which would make the speech on Day 6-7.
He also talks of the anniversary in 6 weeks, which is somewhat consistent with Roy’s estimate of 7 weeks to year end. [It should probably be 7 weeks to the anniversary of the conquest, but there are several arbitrary ways Redcloak could count here and get a “correct” figure of 6 weeks.]
709-Night of 702 according to MITD.
710-Party in city. Should be Day 16+. [Our writer has pointed out that this may not have been the first city they visited, and again a later date is possible.]
717-Empire of Blood. Still Day 16.
727-Tarquin tells us wife passed away recently [on day -1] and a funeral was held last week. This suggests a date of Day 7. However, funerals of the suddenly dead rarely happen the next day, particularly for the important. So a date of Day 14 becomes reasonable. Funerals of the mighty are also often longer than 1 day, indeed have been known to go on for months. Still, it is a stretch each additional day, and so Day 16 is likely our best date.
Tarquin now talks of 3 days of celebration [which conforms to the idea of a longer funeral as well]
728-next day.
729-Still morning as Durkon prepares spells.
733-Roy in jail, apparently same day.
736-In arena. This reads like it was orientation lecture, and would be morning of Day 18, but evening Day 17 is possible.
740-Durkon is meeting up with Haley & Elan. The timeline is getting confused here. Following Haley, this could still be Day 16, but this is most unlikely for Roy or Durkon.
741- There will be mid-week game [which will be within 3 days]. So games likely “wednesday” [Tuesday-Thursday at least]
742-banquet
748-Morning for the gladiators. Games tomorrow. Next several strips show day for most of party. Day 17?
753-Evening. Games tomorrow.
775-new day. Day 18?
818-Tarquin says it’s 2 days to Windy Canyon.
834-Party has arrived, and now waits for casters Day 20
835-casters return to mortal plane in evening, and estimate a day’s travel.
836-casters arrive in daytime. Day 21? We can now squeeze the rest of the strip up to 936 into this day. However, this does make for a very full schedule. The casters must travel all night, rest for long enough to regain spells, and then march right into battle. It is probably better to assume the rest of the book is Day 22.
One of the persistent flaws of the strip is the tendency to crowd everything into the same day[s]. For the most part it is unimportant, but it would be an improvement to stretch things out a bit here and there to take into account the normal delays of life.
842-Durkon says the Draketooths have been dead at least a fortnight. “At least” means that is the minimum, and the maximum can be twice as much. That is entirely consistent with 22 days we are finding..

[hamishspence]

682 party is leaving Sandsedge the same day. [The voyage, and the stay, should be notably longer, but both V in 677 and Durkon imply it is the same day.

Why, if The Giant is specifically going out of his way to say it's not? It's his story, after all - no "should" or "should not" about it.

[David Argall]

Why, if The Giant is specifically going out of his way to say it's not? It's his story, after all - no "should" or "should not" about it.
The writer has several goals besides his own amusement, and to achieve these goals should do certain things, among them being realistic [except in those ways we want him to be unrealistic.] So doing twice as much in a day as a real PC could achieve is a bit of a flaw.

[RMS Oceanic]

David, you're missing the documentary evidence in 842: The Draketooth Spellchart, which denotes that the last spell cast was two weeks before that day. Now one could assume the Draketooth Clan were using a false date for some unknown reason, but I see no reason to believe that.

[hamishspence]

I would also consider the possibility that getting back from Sunken Valley might have taken slightly less time than leaving it- because Nale contacts Roy early that evening, just as the other Order members have started trying to get to sleep. At least, the sky doesn't look very dark compared to other night scenes.

Roy, being worried - and on a deadline - may have cut back on the resting, on the way back.

[David Argall]

David, you're missing the documentary evidence in 842: The Draketooth Spellchart, which denotes that the last spell cast was two weeks before that day.
No, it does not say that. It says the last spell was cast the day Roy was raised, which is consistent with Durkon's estimate of at least two weeks. But 3 or 4 weeks is also consistent with Durkon's estimate, indeed arguably even more consistent. If they had been dead for just 2 weeks, Durkon was only barely right, and on the edge of being wrong.
The chart is there to finger V, not to date things. And so the time passed does not need to be precise. The text just needs to show it could be right.
Note "it fits". Not "the exact date". Right away, we conclude it did not say two weeks ago because Roy would have said so. Rather, he said "fits", which means the date fell into a range that was consistent with Durkon.
842 is important information, but it, itself, does not nail down the date.