Base skill points per level: why only 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10?

[TuggyNE]

Why is it that all classes and types give an even number of base* skill points per level? Why aren't there classes that give 3+Int, or 7+Int, or even perhaps 9+Int?

This reflection was brought on by the curious position of the Scout, as a more skilled, less martial, precision-damage version of the Ranger: it has the same number of skill points as the Rogue does, which seems somehow unwise. But if it had the same number of skill points as the Ranger, it would be pretty lame, so why not compromise and give it 7+Int? Alternatively, the Rogue could be given 9+Int, just short of Changeling sub levels.

It's possible that the same principle could be applied to e.g. Fighters and Paladins, bumping them up to 3+Int if 4+Int is (for whatever reason) considered slightly too much.


*I.e., before Int modifier.

[nedz]

I think it's so you can put the extra point into a cross class skill, but I could be wrong.

[Chronos]

No, that's not it, because the number of cross-class ranks you can afford and their maximum ranks are both half. No matter how many skill points you get per level, and no matter what mix of class and cross-class skills you use, you can always max out a number of skills equal to your points per level. Besides which, having an odd Int mod or being human can still give you an odd number of skills per level.

[kaminiwa]

Probably because the difference between 2 and 3 doesn't feel as significant, so having it broken up in to 2/4/6/8 makes each class feel like they have a specific skill-niche (bad, average, good, awesome).

It's probably also similar to why BAB only comes in three flavors, and saves only come in two - a few simple, distinctive categories are easier to parse.

If you wanted to change this, there's really no issue*, but it will make things a bit "fuzzier" for new players, as the "skill monkey" classes won't be quite as obvious if you have a gradient.

(* well, okay, granting more skill points makes prestige classes easier to qualify for. But there's no reason 3+INT would be inherently problematic, compared to 4+INT :))

[deuxhero]

Because otherwise it be odd if they did that.

[TroubleBrewing]

Because otherwise it be odd if they did that.

Get out. Just take your puns and get out.

[TuggyNE]

No, that's not it, because the number of cross-class ranks you can afford and their maximum ranks are both half. No matter how many skill points you get per level, and no matter what mix of class and cross-class skills you use, you can always max out a number of skills equal to your points per level.

Except in cases where the skill was once a class skill, but no longer is.


Besides which, having an odd Int mod or being human can still give you an odd number of skills per level.

Or any of several other possibilities. Yeah, it's not really tidy.


Probably because the difference between 2 and 3 doesn't feel as significant, so having it broken up in to 2/4/6/8 makes each class feel like they have a specific skill-niche (bad, average, good, awesome).

It's probably also similar to why BAB only comes in three flavors, and saves only come in two - a few simple, distinctive categories are easier to parse.

If you wanted to change this, there's really no issue*, but it will make things a bit "fuzzier" for new players, as the "skill monkey" classes won't be quite as obvious if you have a gradient.

Meh. HD are more granular even than skills (d4 through d12, with averages being only 1 apart instead of 2), so I'm not sure it matters; I'd prefer to have anything with granularity in whole numbers, like skill points, HP, ability scores, and the like, to be as close to multiples of 1 only as possible, rather than always being even, or always being multiples of 5, or whatever. It seems silly to not use the full range of expression.


Because otherwise it be odd if they did that.

Argh!

[Particle_Man]

Wait, what class gives you 10 + INT?

[TuggyNE]

Wait, what class gives you 10 + INT?

Changeling Rogue sub levels, if memory serves. (It's something to do with Changelings and Rogues and variants, anyway.)

[JHShadon]

Because otherwise it be odd if they did that.

You sir deserve a cookie.

[grarrrg]

Because otherwise it be odd if they did that.

I don't get it.
I totally get it, DOUBLE COOKIES!


If you really want odd skill points, you need to go 3rd party. They didn't get the memo.
PF Artificer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/adamant-entertainment/artificer) comes to mind.

[Big Fau]

Wait, what class gives you 10 + INT?


Changeling Rogue sub levels, if memory serves. (It's something to do with Changelings and Rogues and variants, anyway.)

Yep, it's one of the ways to make a Rogue better than a Factotum.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

It often takes 2 skills to make a real difference in the game especially in the sorts of things that are expected of skill monkeys.

Being Stealthy=Hide+Move Silently

Trap Monkey=Search+Disable Device

Detecting Enemies=Listen+Spot

Scouting=Hide+Move Silently+Spot (Listen optional)

There are more nebulous connections between Jump, Climb, Tumble and Balance where it feels strange to be great at on and not at least o.k at another, but you can accomplish the main function of the skill without the others.

[Slipperychicken]

It often takes 2 skills to make a real difference in the game especially in the sorts of things that are expected of skill monkeys.


Pathfinder actually had a relatively simple fix for this, with skill-consolidation like with Stealth, Acrobatics, and Perception.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Yep, it's one of the ways to make a Rogue better than a Factotum.

I worry that lines like this may accidentally summon Tippy. Ia! Ia! Tippy fhtagn!

Otherwise I think it was a decision they made early on and no writer ever bothered to change (since having 4 skill points for 8 classes isn't too odd).