Is Sniping possible with knives? (3.5)

[D4rkh0rus]

Is it possible to snipe (300+ ft away) using only thrown weapons? Any non magic cheese is usable (meaning no teleporting daggers or stuff like that)

Buffs that increase damage output/etc and enchantments are allowed though.

[Dusk Eclipse]

It might be cheese, but an old Dragonwrought Kobold can select epic feats and this get Distant Shot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#distantShot) at level 18 >_>

[D4rkh0rus]

It might be cheese, but an old Dragonwrought Kobold can select epic feats and this get Distant Shot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#distantShot) at level 18 >_>

and a Martial Monk 1 can do so too.

Ok. Hmm.

Not including these 2 cases. what else is there?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Probably involving magic, but none that I can recall offhand

[Ramza00]

Throwing weapon mastery adds 20ft to the base weapon range increment

Far shot doubles your range increment, there are two magic items that give you the benefit of far shot, helm of the hunter or horizon goggles. The helm is the better of the two.

Gauntlet of extended range doubles your range increment

The distance weapon enhancement doubles your range increment.

Finally the goggles of foe finding allow you to ignore cover but not total cover.

10+20=30 Ft
Three doubles means your range increment is now 120ft
You can target up to 5 range increments away so that is 600ft total

[D4rkh0rus]

Throwing weapon mastery adds 20ft to the base weapon range increment

Far shot doubles your range increment, there are two magic items that give you the benefit of far shot, helm of the hunter or horizon goggles. The helm is the better of the two.

Gauntlet of extended range doubles your range increment

The distance weapon enhancement doubles your range increment.

Finally the goggles of foe finding allow you to ignore cover but not total cover.

10+20=30 Ft
Three doubles means your range increment is now 120ft
You can target up to 5 range increments away so that is 600ft total
allright, what else is there?

[Socratov]

well, all that is left is being a strongheart halfling (rogue seems to work best), take halfling whisperknife PRC (couple of levels), and take masterthrower. Apply items and bonii and presto you don't only throw far, you can hit hard if you want to (take dead eye shot for more crit).

Now I must stress that sniping is not very effective with daggers. little to no damage or something else. You'd better extend the range, but take full attacks to turn enemies into pincushions.

[D4rkh0rus]

well, all that is left is being a strongheart halfling (rogue seems to work best), take halfling whisperknife PRC (couple of levels), and take masterthrower. Apply items and bonii and presto you don't only throw far, you can hit hard if you want to (take dead eye shot for more crit).

Now I must stress that sniping is not very effective with daggers. little to no damage or something else. You'd better extend the range, but take full attacks to turn enemies into pincushions.

I can easily add dex and wis to dmg on long range, and craven too, meaning with a hunter's mercy 1 knife can be pretty potent.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Craven only proc's on sneak attacks and at most you have 30 ft range for it, you can get up to 60ft SA range but you need to use crossbows.

[D4rkh0rus]

Craven only proc's on sneak attacks and at most you have 30 ft range for it, you can get up to 60ft SA range but you need to use crossbows.

Sniper's shot nulls that?

[Diarmuid]

But if you're using Sniper's Shot then you're not also using Hunter's Mercy or Hunter's Eye more than likely. You only get the 1 Swift action per turn outside of other shenanigans.

[D4rkh0rus]

But if you're using Sniper's Shot then you're not also using Hunter's Mercy or Hunter's Eye more than likely. You only get the 1 Swift action per turn outside of other shenanigans.

Hunter's mercy is a std action cast.

Sniper's shot is persistable. Ill persist it. same with Hunter's Eye.

[Socratov]

yes shiper's shot is persistable, but that doesn't mean you can use it multiple times during that duration:


Divination
Level: Assassin 1, Ranger 1, Sorcerer 1, Wizard 1,
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 round

When you cast this spell, you extend and sharpen your perceptions for one devastating ranged attack.
Your next single ranged attack (if it is made before the start of your next turn) can be a sneak attack regardless of the distance between you and your target.
This spell doesn't grant you the ability to make a sneak attack if you don't already have that ability.

Bolding mine. It means that sure, if you persist it, yes you can take longer to take your shot. But as soon as you take it you lose the benefits. wait until they are in range for you while you remain in hiding, when he comes into range, you go "haHAAAA!" and throw every damn dagger you have while abusing your sneak attack dice. High level that's a lot of damage. A lot more then just sniping. (and hide works really well)

[D4rkh0rus]

yes shiper's shot is persistable, but that doesn't mean you can use it multiple times during that duration:



Bolding mine. It means that sure, if you persist it, yes you can take longer to take your shot. But as soon as you take it you lose the benefits. wait until they are in range for you while you remain in hiding, when he comes into range, you go "haHAAAA!" and throw every damn dagger you have while abusing your sneak attack dice. High level that's a lot of damage. A lot more then just sniping. (and hide works really well)

"haHAAAA!" part. yep. gonna try for that.

[Diarmuid]

Persisting Sniper's Shot seems like a very very bad return on the investment of resources required.

[Psyren]

So you don't want magic but you're okay with persisting buffs?

[D4rkh0rus]

So you don't want magic but you're okay with persisting buffs?

buffs and dmg increases are ok. whats not ok is doign stuff like Mirror image spotting and the like.

in a few words...

Magic is allowed, but the throwing range and method have to be (ex)

[Curmudgeon]

and a Martial Monk 1 can do so too.
Not without house rules. Monks don't need to meet prerequisites to select their bonus feats, but have no dispensation from the normal requirements to use those feats. As written, the class feature just gives Monks some extra flexibility in scheduling when they take their feats.

[Uncle Pine]

and a Martial Monk 1 can do so too.

You can't select Distant Shot as one of your martial monk bonus feats, because as a martial monk you can only select fighter feats and Distant Shot isn't a fighter bonus feat as it lacks the "A fighter may select Distant Shot as one of his fighter bonus feats" line. Instead, it's an epic fighter feat, as you can see here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/classProgressions.htm#epicFighter).

[Vaz]

You cannot persist dischargeable spells.

[Diarmuid]

Source? Quote?

[Vaz]

Persistent Spell Feat, Complete Arcane

[Diarmuid]

Cool, clears that right up.

Thanks for the speedy reply.

[Person_Man]

300 feet is 100 yards, also known as a football field. I don't think it's even physically possible to throw a knife 300 feet (unless you're throwing it off of an elevated surface of some kind), much less throw in with any kind of accuracy. Most professional quarterbacks, who spend the prime of their life throwing something for millions of dollars have a hard time throwing a football more then 70 yards. And a football is specifically designed to be thrown as far as possible.

So I'm saying no, without the aid of magic, it can't be done.

Now, back to murdering those catgirls...

[D4rkh0rus]

300 feet is 100 yards, also known as a football field. I don't think it's even physically possible to throw a knife 300 feet (unless you're throwing it off of an elevated surface of some kind), much less throw in with any kind of accuracy. Most professional quarterbacks, who spend the prime of their life throwing something for millions of dollars have a hard time throwing a football more then 70 yards. And a football is specifically designed to be thrown as far as possible.

So I'm saying no, without the aid of magic, it can't be done.

Now, back to murdering those catgirls...

I guess so. What about 70 yds or what equates to about 210 feet?

[Diarmuid]

Throwing a knife with the accuracy to hit a precision spot on a moving, armored enemy is just as unlikely at 70 yards as it is at 100 yards.

D&D rules take none of this into account however and if you can boost your to-hit bonus high enough and can figure out how to reliably get your SA to apply at that range and can trigger SA, then you can make it work.