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View Full Version : It's fair for me to ask my teammates to pay me back, right?



CoffeeIncluded
2014-01-16, 10:54 PM
To be clear, they haven't given me trouble. I just didn't bring the question up until today because I felt like a greedy jerk asking.

Okay, so in my group (we've got a great dynamic going, though I can be overbearing at times; I'm working on it though) I'm playing a rogue. Specifically, I'm playing Natalia, a dual-wielding rogue/swashbuckler/trapsmith (dipping Swordsage next level; we just hit level 8), so that should tell you what my budget looks like. Specifically, my whole schtick is raising Natalia's dexterity and AC (low 20s unbuffed) as high as possible, then wading into melee and unloading 3-4 sneak attacks per round while dodging everything thrown at her. I'm currently saving up for gloves of dexterity, but I can't afford them yet, and part of the reason as to why is why I'm making this topic.

I'm also in charge of finances for the group, and am scrupulously honest about making sure everyone gets an equal share. That's not changing, ever. The problem is that because I'm in charge of finances and think about everything, I'm also the one who buys potions for everyone, such as the five Protection From Evil potions, the Darkvision potion, and the Barkskin potion the whole party drank in our last battle, where we faced off against a party of 8 drow. They saved our hides, especially since the two drow wizards loved using summons and the protection from evil potions completely negated the summons' attacks. It actually saved the wizard and beguiler's life, as the fiendish dire ape that was summoned broke out of the black tentacles and made a beeline for them; the cleric could only distract him for so long, even though he managed to dodge too.

But here's the problem: I only drank two protection from evil potions and the darkvision potions. My teammates drank the rest, nearly 400 gp worth of potions. And since we're probably headed into the underdark soon, we need to restock. I can't afford to keep buying potions for everyone, especially if I want to buy things for myself. It's fair and not at all rude to ask my teammates, both in character and out of character, to pay me back, right? I just feel terrible if I only buy for myself and nobody else, and then everyone else suffers and gets injured because of that.

JustPlayItLoud
2014-01-16, 10:59 PM
Not in the least bit unacceptable. The way we've always handled it is any haul is "party treasure" until we get to a place to be able to liquidate any items nobody wants to keep. Then party expenses/consumables are paid for. Then the remainder is divvied up into individual treasure.

Erik Vale
2014-01-16, 10:59 PM
Your running finances and your buying group potions?
They should be coming out of group funds before being split to be honest, or the characters should be buying potions out of their own shares and keeping track of them.

Honestly, I think it would completely be in character and entirely reasonable as financier to determine who's drinking the potions and reduce shares appropriately to maintain a group potion stock. Just try and stay on the wizards good side as you level up.

If they disagree, either let someone else take over, or go to buying your own, and then charging them 110+% the potions cost after they need it to save their buts. They will quickly become more reasonable whilst reinstating you, or probably dying.

CoffeeIncluded
2014-01-16, 11:09 PM
We usually split gp and items immediately after the fight, though I try to keep a running tally of what we got. As for the potions, that was just a sudden "Hm, I'm getting a masterwork longbow since I have proficiency and need a ranged weapon that I can attack multiple times with now that I have iterative attacks; might as well get some defensive potions for the future, and get some for everyone," but I feel it's going to be happening more frequently in the future.

Plus there is precedent: When the barbarian/crusader Kurt and beguiler Shiny got killed in an ogre battle gone bad, my character immediately provided the remaining amount of money needed to get them raised, selling some of her items to do so. They paid her back as soon as they were able to. So I guess it is okay to ask that they pay me back. The reason I feel like a jerk is that I didn't mention it as I was buying the potions, it's only when I realized that this might become a thing and how much I was spending on extra stuff when I'm trying to save up for Gloves of Dexterity that I realized that this could be a serious problem.

mistformsquirrl
2014-01-16, 11:11 PM
Not in the least bit unacceptable. The way we've always handled it is any haul is "party treasure" until we get to a place to be able to liquidate any items nobody wants to keep. Then party expenses/consumables are paid for. Then the remainder is divvied up into individual treasure.

I like that method, I'm going to have to use that sometime myself I think.

Rhynn
2014-01-16, 11:24 PM
Consumables that are used at need by whoever has a need* should come out from the top of your budget before everything is divided, and you should definitely be reimbursed. They're a running expense of the adventuring party.

You might need to write up an adventuring party contract (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_code#Example_codes) to make sure everything stays on the level. :smallcool:

* E.g. potions, healing wands, scrolls of healing, cure disease, etc.; but not e.g. the staff or wand the wizard wants for blasting, or the scrolls the wizard scribes into his spellbook, etc. A smart party decides beforehand what is paid for from the common chest and what from individual shares. This includes provisions for expensive or serious healing and resurrection: it makes a big difference whether the party pays for your stone to flesh or raise dead, or whether that comes out of your share or savings.

Gavran
2014-01-16, 11:42 PM
My gut instinct was to say "Yes, it's completely fair" but... you bought these potions on a whim, yes? Their need wasn't Divined? Or something that had come up in multiple encounters already? In the case that the other PCs used them, I think you should expect that they pay you back, without asking at all. But if they hadn't needed them... that's different. Then I'd be inclined to say "just only buy potions for yourself", but you certainly don't want a TPK because they didn't buy their own either... but it is definitely not fair for you to become the sole being responsible for that.

Also, not that it's totally what you're getting at, but I play 4E where WBL raises at such an extreme rate that you can buy a full set of magic items that are a smallish number of levels beneath you for the price of a single magic item at your level. Even despite that, I get very annoyed by players who try to scheme and steal all the loot they can. Magic items are part of the D&D math, and it's very inconsiderate to let one of your fellow players fall behind in that because of your greed.

CoffeeIncluded
2014-01-16, 11:46 PM
My gut instinct was to say "Yes, it's completely fair" but... you bought these potions on a whim, yes? Their need wasn't Divined? Or something that had come up in multiple encounters already? In the case that the other PCs used them, I think you should expect that they pay you back, without asking at all. But if they hadn't needed them... that's different. Then I'd be inclined to say "just only buy potions for yourself", but you certainly don't want a TPK because they didn't buy their own either... but it is definitely not fair for you to become the sole being responsible for that.

But I won't stop blaming myself for it. And that's exactly the issue. They used them, I passed them out before the fight because one of the wizards sicced a fiendish dire wolf on my character. When I bought the potions we had been fighting loads of evil creatures, and I had a feeling they might be handy.


Also, not that it's totally what you're getting at, but I play 4E where WBL raises at such an extreme rate that you can buy a full set of magic items that are a smallish number of levels beneath you for the price of a single magic item at your level. Even despite that, I get very annoyed by players who try to scheme and steal all the loot they can. Magic items are part of the D&D math, and it's very inconsiderate to let one of your fellow players fall behind in that because of your greed.

That is not the case. We play PbP, so even with our insane rate of posting we only do like one combat every few weeks. It's mostly roleplaying.

Deophaun
2014-01-16, 11:53 PM
About the only thing is that if it's coming out of party funds, then the party should at least have a discussion about how that should be spent (belts of healing versus healing potions versus wands of lesser vigor type stuff). But yeah, there's nothing wrong with asking for reimbursement if people use your consumables. Otherwise you might have people sponging off you, as they know you'll always come through with the potion of remove disease or scroll of stone to flesh when needed.

Gavran
2014-01-17, 12:36 AM
I think I should probably trot out the old standard "talk with your group" then. :P Maybe they don't realize they really need the consumables, maybe they don't really need the consumables. If they're reasonable people, and they probably are, telling them you don't want to pay for all the consumables but feel like they're necessary should get you somewhere. I feel like your good intentions are pretty evident in this thread, and from the time you sacrificed for a resurrection. You're probably worrying about it more than you need to. :)

erikun
2014-01-17, 12:47 AM
Yes, that sounds fair. More specifically, it would probably be a conversation like, "Would it be okay to put some treasure we get to restocking those potions everyone drank?" If there's a risk that others will think you're gouging them for money, then this proposal will pretty much put those concerns to rest.

And it's technically true, as well. Just retroactively.

Broken Twin
2014-01-17, 02:33 AM
For future use, I would definitely advise having a seperate 'party fund'. A pool of cash where group consumables and payments for resurrections comes out of. Say approximately 10% of the loot is added to this pool before it's divided up between party members.

veti
2014-01-17, 06:55 AM
If you form, I dunno, a wine club or something at work - you'd collect money from each person, then you go buy the wine for everyone.

I see this working the same way. Next time you're in a town, just ask everyone to chip in for the potions fund. Not "to pay you back", but just to create a shared fund, which is used to create a shared pool (sorry) of potions.

It's not greedy, it's not even socially awkward, it's the most natural and obvious thing in the world.

Spore
2014-01-17, 08:33 AM
Make an extra share for group equipment. People can take out gold for items they want (like your gloves) and potions, ressurections and the sort is paid for with that.

Mastikator
2014-01-17, 08:38 AM
The treasurer should have access to everyone's money. You can't handle someone's finances without handling them.
Don't ask them to pay you back. Tell them to give you the money and you'll handle the bookkeeping, if someone uses more than they can afford they simply go into debt and pay interest to you.
If they can't pay the interest, go for the knees.:smalltongue:

CoffeeIncluded
2014-01-17, 08:56 AM
We talked about it and everyone's going to pay for their own potions from now on. Since my character is still going to buy the cheap stuff in bulk (since it's in both our natures; she's probably the most generous rogue you'll ever meet), they'll pay those back on an "as needed" basis.

TheStranger
2014-01-17, 09:23 AM
I just want to second the "party fund" idea. My group reserves a half-share for the party and uses it for wands and the like. Also comes in handy when you need to hire an NPC or something. And if the party fund is getting big, a PC can ask nicely to borrow some money from it for a specific item.

Athedia
2014-01-17, 09:00 PM
Going to point out one thing that was left out. Most of the potions were not drunk, we never really needed to (My character didn't need a potion, but drank it to make Natalia relax -playing a control wizard if the opponents can attack I am not doing my job).

Balain
2014-01-18, 02:43 AM
We normally split the loot right away, with one extra share. Keep anything worth selling, and when it gets sold split that up with one extra share. The extra share is the party loot. Everyone buys there own potions and what not, but just in case party can buy a could extra or if something comes p and the extra is needed.

RochtheCrusher
2014-01-18, 07:05 AM
Just going to point out one potentially worrying aspect...


But here's the problem: I only drank two protection from evil potions and the darkvision potions. My teammates drank the rest, nearly 400 gp worth of potions.

Charging your front-line fighters more, because they use more potions, is not really fair. These guys are taking hits for you, and that's on purpose... and it's probably the only way you're going to survive... so charging them extra because they're getting hit and need the defense-boosting potions is no more fair than you buying all of them.

As many others have suggested, you should set aside, say, 5-10% of your loot for stuff like this. If you need a Rez, that share helps pay for it... if you're an idiot, you pay it back. If your death saved the party and was the only way, then you keep your money. Same for consumables; only something you wasted needs to be repaid.

When the group funds get ridiculously numerous, dole them out evenly to the party and start over.

JusticeZero
2014-01-19, 11:53 AM
It's really not appropriate to ask what is "fair" here. "Fair" is not a thing by which the world really operates. What you are looking for is a formula that works for your group that everybody can agree on. I tend to agree that consumables should come out of a group pool, as a rule.

Jay R
2014-01-19, 01:25 PM
Go ahead and ask them. It doesn't matter if we think it's unfair; it matters if they think it's unfair.

And if they decide it's unfair, then you can stop handling their finances and buying them potions with a clear conscience.

LibraryOgre
2014-01-21, 03:54 PM
Not in the least unacceptable, though this is a situation where we frequently talk about establishing a party fund for such things... basically, the "party" gets a share of loot, along with each of the members. The party fund pays for some party expenses... potions, lodging, etc. Anything paid for out of party funds is party property, as opposed to personal property.

Another_Poet
2014-01-21, 08:17 PM
Totally fair.

They probably haven't even thought of it. Let them know you bought out of your own funds and gently state that you'll need them to reimburse.

To make this easier in the future, assuming they trust you, ask if they will start a "slush fund." 10% of all loot value goes into it before the individual PCs get their share, and this money is used for group expenditures.

Athedia
2014-01-21, 08:20 PM
Seriously people are still commenting on this? We resolved it guys, and it wasn't near as much as she estimated in fact only 2 of us drank anything at all.

CoffeeIncluded
2014-01-22, 04:41 PM
Thanks guys. I think we're going to be buying our own items in the future, with larger expenses being handled on a case-by-case basis.