Sorcerer Spell Level 5

[Saambell]

So I just hit Level 10 Sorcerer tonight, and I have to chose a 5th level spell.
I have the Spell Compendium, and a bunch of other books, like Complete Arcane, Complete Mage, Eberron and Forgotten Realms books, and a couple of others.
I only get 1 spell right now and it will probably be a while until my next level up. I want to make this Spell count. I can also swap a 3rd level spell if I want to.
1st Level Spells(for Synergy): Magic Missile, Shield, Obscuring Mist, Silent Image, Grease
2nd Level Spells(for Synergy): Scorching Ray, Resist Energy, Glitter Dust, Bulls Strength
3rd Level Spells known: Haste, Fly, Fireball.
4th Level Spells(for synergy): Orb of Fire, Phantasmal Killer.

In the Spell Compendium I noticed Draconic Polymorph But the book does not have an entry for it in the main section, jumping from Draconic Might to Dragon Ally, Lesser. Is it worth a look? Where can I find it?

Upcoming in the adventure we will be Setting Sail, Pirate Hunting. Spells that would work on board ships or used to fight other ships would be welcome.

[Kazuel]

Overland flight would be my choice

[Saambell]

Does that even work over water? We are going out to sea, and the spell name seems to say that it fails over water. However you are right that in the description it never says anything like that. Its just that I have 4 uses of 5th level spells and only extend spell as a Meta Magic feat, so i do not want to waste those spell slots. I guess i could cast some lower level spells without the need for metamagic to boost them to 5th.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Draconic Polymorph is in the Draconomicon, it's a personal-range version of Polymorph that gives you an extra +8 Str and +2 Con.

What metamagic feats do you have? It's sort of important whether or not you have a really good metamagic version of a spell that's cast from a 5th level slot, or if all those slots are going to be spent on the spell you pick.

It also sort of matters if you're the only one in the party who would be able to cast something like Teleport. For example, if there's a divine caster they can prepare Mass Resist Energy 1/day and you don't even need to know Resist Energy. You're also lacking Rope Trick, which means either there's a Wizard in the party, or your party doesn't have Rope Trick.

It looks like you've gone and picked almost nothing but fire spells for damage, which leaves you in a bad spot if you run into opponents who are highly resistant or immune to fire. Even Searing Spell doesn't cover you if they have the fire subtype.

I'd swap out Scorching Ray for Web, and get Arc of Lightning. If you're good-aligned, hire an NPC Psion to manifest Psychic Reformation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm) on you, and pick up Ancestral Relic to do this trick (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267805#4). If using magic/psionics transparency, you can also repick your spells with that.

[Vizzerdrix]

Umm...

Arcane Fusion (Comp. Mage)

Celerity (4th level) (PHB2)

Wings of cover (2nd level) (Races of the dragon)

Try those. All are strong choices.

[Spuddles]

I would be highly tempted to pick up Teleport. It's useful to cast a lot and with the view afforded from a ship's mast and/or a fly spell you can scout fairly well.

Maybe trade out scorching ray for invisibility?

[Vizzerdrix]

Metamagics are very handy on a sorcerer. If you want to push the fire theme to the limit then look in Sandstorm for some metamagic feats that'll help deal with fire resistant and immune critters.

One sec. I'll toss a few handy links into this post....

I'mma put these here for ya.

8 Simple Rules For Selecting Sorcerer Spells (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7229)

Solo's Stupendously Superior Sorcerer Stratagems (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=487)

[Marnath]

I guess i could cast some lower level spells without the need for metamagic to boost them to 5th.

That isn't how it works. You can cast a lower level spell from a 5th level slot, but it stays a low level spell for purposes of DC's and stuff unless you heighten it.

[Saambell]

Rest of the Party is:
2 Fighters(1 Bastard Sword, One Dual Tower-Shield-bashing(We often bend some rules))
Paladin(sword and board/Archer/Mounted)
Cleric(Healbot DMPC, only there to heal, and played as such)
Weird Huh?

Feats are:
Toughness
Eschew Materials
Scribe Scroll(Never Used it, DM has given permission to swap it)
Extend Spell

Race: Half Elf
STR 12
DEX 14
CON 16
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 21 (Cloak of Charisma +2)

Swapping Fireball is Definitely on the Table.
Fine with swapping any 2nd level spell Except Glitterdust(You Guys Know Why)
but i can only swap 1 spell and add another.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Does that even work over water? We are going out to sea, and the spell name seems to say that it fails over water. However you are right that in the description it never says anything like that. Its just that I have 4 uses of 5th level spells and only extend spell as a Meta Magic feat, so i do not want to waste those spell slots. I guess i could cast some lower level spells without the need for metamagic to boost them to 5th.

I.... what? You're not serious?

Overland, if it was to be that literal, would preclude flight at all. It's being used in the colloquial to refer to a long journey; a reference to the fact that the spell is an hours/level spell and its primary use is to quickly travel long distances.

Fly is actually superior on the tactical scale because of its better maneuverability rating but overland flight's duration means you can go the whole day with it up and running. The difference in maneuverability isn't large enough for a sorcerer to pick up both and overland flight has -much- better out of combat applicability.

Bottom line: overland flight is a "must have" spell for a sorcerer. Definitely pick it up.

[Endarire]

What do you absolutely want to be able to have, and cast often? Your group lacks teleport, and that's so very handy, if your GM lets you warp away and skip overland travel. Immediate regroups back to base (or warping into your point of desire) also help.

Remember, as a Sorcerer, you can still use scrolls, wands, staves, and other items.

[Maginomicon]

I spent a lot of time futzing over what 5th-level spell to take at Sorc 10 for my Sorcs.

Wall of Force if you want battlefield control, Coat of Arms or Mana Flux if you want something that looks cool, Prying Eyes for surveillance and scouting, Wall of Stone if you need a "nope" button, Mass Fly if you want your party to love you forever-and-ever.


Bottom line: overland flight is a "must have" spell for a sorcerer. Definitely pick it up.
Overland Flight only targets you. It's a personal-range spell.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Overland Flight only targets you. It's a personal-range spell.

Yes. And?

If you're doing the buffer thing then mass fly is an option and you -could- pick up regular fly if you're that worried about it, though I tend to expect everyone to get their own flight methods since the sorcerer can be taken out and relying solely on him for something that important seems like a recipe for disaster.

Edit: oh, and overland flight is the prerequisite spell for both the carpet and broom of flying as well. Craft wondrous item is a great feat for any caster.

[Saambell]

I'm seeing a lot of good stuff.




That isn't how it works. You can cast a lower level spell from a 5th level slot, but it stays a low level spell for purposes of DC's and stuff unless you heighten it.
I understood that and i did not communicate to the extent i should have, sorry.


I.... what? You're not serious?

Overland, if it was to be that literal, would preclude flight at all. It's being used in the colloquial to refer to a long journey; a reference to the fact that the spell is an hours/level spell and its primary use is to quickly travel long distances.

Fly is actually superior on the tactical scale because of its better maneuverability rating but overland flight's duration means you can go the whole day with it up and running. The difference in maneuverability isn't large enough for a sorcerer to pick up both and overland flight has -much- better out of combat applicability.

Bottom line: overland flight is a "must have" spell for a sorcerer. Definitely pick it up.
Yeah, i was dumb and took the "land" portion too literally.

SO MANY OPTIONS AND ONLY 2 SPELLS TO FILL :smalleek:
I would love Overland Flight, But Arcane Fusion is Glorious. Draconic Polymorph is a buffed Polymorph which is Great.
As for 3rd levels: Hold Person would be nice, gives my derpy allies a chance to Coup de Grace them. Web is definitely a good one to get.

Should have posted this disclaimer sooner: I said I have the "books"(Most in PDF), The DM is running off the DnD wikis for info. I have no idea if he has Psyonics in his home made setting. never stated if anything is off the table though. then again we only had the Players Handbook 1 when we started.

[Slipperychicken]

Teleport can be tremendously useful in a strategic sense, and also as a last ditch effort to GTFO of many sticky situations (or even to enter a dungeon which you've previously scryed. Or rather, which your Cleric has scryed, and then described to you). Combined with your Cleric's ability to prepare Plane Shift, you can go almost anywhere in the multiverse with just two spells.

Overland Flight will let you fly everywhere and "nope" out of basically any melee. It lets you fly over water, land, magma, and anything else. You're completely over-analyzing the spell's name; it gives you a fly speed, which applies everywhere.

Swapping out a 4th level spell might be painful, but Ethereal Mount (SpC, Sorc/Wiz 4) gets you 6 phantom steeds which have 200ft move speed, can run on water, can fly for 1 round at a time, and fly full-time once you hit CL 14. In metagame terms, the move speed isn't useful for getting to locations faster ("A player character is never late, nor is he early. He arrives precisely when the dungeon master means him to"), but it can sometimes be nice for outpacing opponents. They are squishy, however. Perhaps it'll be decent once you have more 4th level slots to play with.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Arcane fusion is pretty good and becomes the "I win" button to combat if your DM lets you get away with recursive loop tricks but polymorph doesn't need a buff. It's one of the most powerful spells in the game, as-is.

[Maginomicon]

Yes. And?And so if you cast it, you'll be leaving the rest of your party behind for your hours-long spell. Right?

[Slipperychicken]

And so if you cast it, you'll be leaving the rest of your party behind for your hours-long spell. Right?

Or you can just use your superior speed to scout ahead for things like ambushes and important terrain features.

[Kelb_Panthera]

And so if you cast it, you'll be leaving the rest of your party behind. Right?

I already answered this but I'll counter with this as well: if you're the only way the party is getting airborne then you're burning most of your third level spell slots every time you do so and for a very limited time. There's also the very simple matter of having it up and not using it until it becomes relevant for a single 5th level slot; no need to buff before combat.

Being able to get airborne reliably by level 10 is something every character should be able to do. If the sorcerer is the only one that can do it on his own, that's a problem.

[Spuddles]

Overland Flight is great, but better on a Runestaff or picked up as a spell onown later. How many times are you going to cast it in average day? About once. You're guaranteed to teleport at least twice a day.

Slow is an awesome debuff. When it works, your allies can stay in melee for a VERY long time with things they normally shouldnt. Especially if they're buffed. And with all that charisma, you have a decent chance of slowing monsters.

I would highly recommend swapping scribe scroll for heighten spell. That way you can more efficiently use those higher level slots. Beware the increase in casting time, though.

[Saambell]

SHOOT! I FORGOT TO MENTION THE BARD! yeah there is a bard in the party.
The bard has the Winged Shoes, and the BS fighter has Celestial Mail, which can give him wings i think. so at least 2 other members of the party can fly themselves.


polymorph doesn't need a buff. It's one of the most powerful spells in the game, as-is.
Dragonic Polymorph gives +8 STR and +2 CON. also, this is the point i am vague on; can you cast spells while Polymorphed? Because i Morphed into a Black Dracolisk once and we(the DM and I) figured "well, it has claws, not hands so it might not be able to cast spells"

Teleport is Totally another option but i can only take 3 party members with me and there are 5 other members. WELL i guess that's what i use the other 3 5th spell slots on, jumping back and grabbing the others.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

For Teleport, just stuff a few of them into a Bag of Holding or a Portable Hole.

For Overland Flight, being able to fly all day is great, but remember that you have to maintain a forward velocity or fall out of the sky with average maneuverability.

Definitely try to repick that Scribe Scroll into Ancestral Relic for a custom Runestaff. You can put the above spells on that and pick something like Wall of Force for your 5th level spell known. Be sure to include Rope Trick and a few decent crowd controls on that Runestaff as well.

[Kelb_Panthera]

If your polymorphed form has a mouth capable of speech and hands capable of fine manipulation then you can still cast spells while polymorphed. The extra strength and con are pretty irrelevant since you could just pick a tougher, stronger form.

I honestly don't know if a dracolisk's forepaws are dextrous enough for spellcasting or not so I can't say your DM was wrong. It was his call to make and he made it.

[Grim Reader]

If you're trading out Scribe Scroll, consider Dragon Compendiums Bloodline feats. +1 spell known for every spell level.

[Saambell]

If you're trading out Scribe Scroll, consider Dragon Compendiums Bloodline feats. +1 spell known for every spell level.

Dragon Compendium? I've got Dragon Magic, Draconomicron, and Races of the Dragon. Is it is one of those?
Closest i saw to what you describe was in Races of the Dragon, needed 4 other feats and only gave select spells.
I am Guessing i did not find what you suggested.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Dragon Compendium? I've got Dragon Magic, Draconomicron, and Races of the Dragon. Is it is one of those?
Closest i saw to what you describe was in Races of the Dragon, needed 4 other feats and only gave select spells.
I am Guessing i did not find what you suggested.

It's not any of those. It's Dragon Compendium Vol 1; a WotC licensed Paizo product that is, for some reason, widely accepted as a source for material, in-spite of the fact that acceptable material is usually WotC published products only unless otherwise specified by the OP.

[Grim Reader]

Its basically a "Best of" Dragon Magazine, which has normally counted as a WoTC product. Dragons stuff has often suffered from poor playtesting, but this compilation is basically good stuff.

I also found Darrins taken the trouble to rate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5076244&postcount=30)the Bloodline feats.

[Juntao112]

Magic Jar.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Magic Jar.

Potentially quite useful but difficult to weaponize.

[SinsI]

Have you considered Shadow Evocation?

[Chronos]

Shadow Evocation would ordinarily be my first choice for a 5th-level spell, since it's so versatile, but it looks like the OP already knows a decent number of evocations, which makes it less useful.

[Spuddles]

Have you considered Shadow Evocation?

It's pretty weak, especially without cheesing it up with prestige classes.