[3.5] When exactly can swift actions be made?

[Totema]

Consider the following situation:

I'm playing a tashalatora-style monk (Monk 2/Psychic Warrior 5) with Scorpion's Grasp and Quicken Power. I spend my turn in combat by using unarmed strikes on my enemy, and I intend to manifest a quickened Expansion before making my free grapple check after dealing damage.

Is this possible? By RAW it appears so to me, since the Scorpion's Grasp grapple attempt is a free action that can be made after a successful attack. But I still have a nagging doubt that you can't do this; to me it feels like the attempt must be made immediately after the attack. (I can't convince myself that swift actions are "instant speed", to speak in MtG terms :P) Is there anywhere where it mentions exactly when a swift action can be made, and whether or not it can interrupt this kind of sequence of actions?

[TuggyNE]

Free Action
Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally.
[… much later …]
You can take a swift action any time you would normally be allowed to take a free action.

Seems straightforward enough to me.

[Totema]

Gah, I must have missed that. >.< But I still have my original concern; can you interrupt that chain of actions with another action? Does the game not care about the order in which they are made?

[Vaz]

I don't particularly understand why you'd not want to expand to make it easier to melee in the first place?

[TuggyNE]

Gah, I must have missed that. >.< But I still have my original concern; can you interrupt that chain of actions with another action? Does the game not care about the order in which they are made?

You can take a free action during another action, so yes.

[Bakkan]

To speak in M:tG terms, swift actions are exactly like Instants with the text "you may only cast this spell on your turn", and immediates are just like Instants (with no qualifying text).

[Psyren]

To speak in M:tG terms, swift actions are exactly like Instants with the text "you may only cast this spell on your turn", and immediates are just like Instants (with no qualifying text).

Can I just say that MTG is a really great way to understand how actions work in D&D? I sometimes wish D&D had a "stack" like MTG does.

[fail_deadly]

Gah, I must have missed that. >.< But I still have my original concern; can you interrupt that chain of actions with another action? Does the game not care about the order in which they are made?

Go here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm)for a full summary of the Actions. You can take your actions in any order.

You can, for example, make an attack action then a move action. Or a swift action to cast a quickened spell, a move action, then a standard action to cast another spell.

A swift action can come at any point during your turn.

[Urpriest]

Since Scorpion's Grasp triggers as a free action and you can take a swift any time you can take a free, at the very least you can manifest Expansion at the same time that you make the grapple check, which logically should give you the bonus.

That said, to echo someone upthread, why not just go around with Expansion on before you hit?

[Phelix-Mu]

Can I just say that MTG is a really great way to understand how actions work in D&D? I sometimes wish D&D had a "stack" like MTG does.

Or, I don't know, like they'd gotten a couple of those rules lawyer buffs over there at MTG to take a look at some of the D&D core mechanics, which are like Swiss cheese to the MTG Velveeta.

It's not like both systems don't have exploits, but the "stack" is an excellent example of a pretty simple idea that D&D really could benefit from (especially with later additions of celerity, wings of cover, abrupt jaunt, and other stuff that screws with other declared actions that are still resolving).

[Diarmuid]

Quick Draw would let you draw lots of weapons to make iterative attacks with (say throwing daggers for instance). In that scenario, the "Free Action" is being taken in the middle of a Full Attack Action.

With the understanding that Swift Actions can be taken whenever a Free Action could be taken, but only on your turn, I dont see why you couldnt use one to activate something while in the middle of doing something else.

[Totema]

Wow, the idea that they can be done in any order is...a little mind-bending. It's not intuitive to me at all for some reason. Thanks though!

[bekeleven]

That said, to echo someone upthread, why not just go around with Expansion on before you hit?

Potential edge case: You don't have enough room for a larger form unless you also occupy your enemy's space.

More realistic case: You are holding back to surprise your enemy.