Loremaster:Any feat

[joybug]

So, one of the secrets a lore master can learn is, "Applicable knowledge," which allows him/her to gain, "any one feat." As far as I know it means just that, any feat, regardless of prerequisite feats, ability scores, level, anything! So, if you could draw any feat from any official 3.5-d20 source for a wizard, what would it be? I'm looking for the most hilarious/broken feats out there.

[Vaz]

It doesn't say you ignore prerequisites, so you must meet them, otherwise, you could take Epic Spellcasting at ECL11 or whatever it was, and "win D&D".

(You automatically cast a number of spells equal to 1/10th of your K. Arcana score).

[TuggyNE]

Vaz is right, it functions like a Fighter bonus feat, except not limited to any particular list; it's handy, but it's not that amazing.

[Drachasor]

The best two secrets are probably the +2 Fort Save and +2 Will Save ones.

[Killer Angel]

The best two secrets are probably the +2 Fort Save and +2 Will Save ones.

:smallconfused:
Those are basically "Great fortitude" and "Iron will". How are they better than "Any one feat"?

[Spore]

:smallconfused:
Those are basically "Great fortitude" and "Iron will". How are they better than "Any one feat"?

They stack with mentioned feats. :)

[Killer Angel]

yep, but I'd still prefer a different feat. :smallwink:

[Drachasor]

They stack with mentioned feats. :)

Also, they are the two most important saves.

I'd say the bonus feat probably comes in third. After the top three it gets a bit tricky to determine which is best.

[TuggyNE]

They stack with mentioned feats. :)

Teh borkens! :smalleek:

[Killer Angel]

Also, they are the two most important saves.


It depends. Once, Saph posted a thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105483) about her Red Hand of Doom campaign, and ref was the main one.

[Chronos]

Actually, they don't stack with the feats, for one simple reason: You don't have those feats, because you're not an idiot, and used your feat selections for things that were actually useful.

[Zombulian]

Actually, they don't stack with the feats, for one simple reason: You don't have those feats, because you're not an idiot, and used your feat selections for things that were actually useful.

There we go.

[Drachasor]

It depends. Once, Saph posted a thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105483) about her Red Hand of Doom campaign, and ref was the main one.

I don't think this properly takes into account how Fort and Will saves work. Often they might not directly kill you, but they weaken you a lot more than hit point loss. Sometimes they take you out of the fight (which might result in another party member dying). So overall that thread isn't remotely convincing. Especially since there are many other ways to protect yourself against almost all Reflex-based stuff (like Energy Resistance).


Actually, they don't stack with the feats, for one simple reason: You don't have those feats, because you're not an idiot, and used your feat selections for things that were actually useful.

It's not like they are really bad feats. But more to the point, the Loremaster lets you get save bonuses very cheaply. If you aren't grabbing the save bonuses, then the class really isn't doing much of anything for you. You already SPENT a feat to get into it, and you'll lose Wizard bonus feats while in it. If a feat is so valuable, you shouldn't even be in this PrC.

[bekeleven]

There are a small number of reflex save-or-sucks.

Fun fact: In 3.0 playtesting, the original Great Fort/Iron Will/Great Ref were +1 bonuses and could be taken multiple times. They decided players responded better to a "more exclusive" bonus.

[Eldaran]

I agree the save bonuses are nice, and you get five secrets over the course of the class, so if you're going all the way you're going to have the saves and the feat, but it still doesn't mean the feat is "third best." A bonus feat is still the best secret you can get, because all the other options are equal or inferior to feats, and the feats they do equal are almost always regarded as sub-par.

Loremaster is good because it gives you bonuses with no downside. Yeah, you have to waste a feat to get in, but you get it back from the secret anyway.

[Telonius]

It's not like they are really bad feats. But more to the point, the Loremaster lets you get save bonuses very cheaply. If you aren't grabbing the save bonuses, then the class really isn't doing much of anything for you. You already SPENT a feat to get into it, and you'll lose Wizard bonus feats while in it. If a feat is so valuable, you shouldn't even be in this PrC.

Two extra skill points per level are nice, and there aren't a whole lot of other full-casting PrCs that grant UMD as a class skill.

The bonus feat is basically a wash - Skill Focus is not something most Wizards would usually have taken, so that Secret is giving you back the feat you would have had otherwise. (The other prereqs are things that a Wizard might have reason to take whether or not they intend to go into the PrC, so there's not much of an opportunity cost there).

[Zanos]

I agree the save bonuses are nice, and you get five secrets over the course of the class, so if you're going all the way you're going to have the saves and the feat, but it still doesn't mean the feat is "third best." A bonus feat is still the best secret you can get, because all the other options are equal or inferior to feats, and the feats they do equal are almost always regarded as sub-par.

Loremaster is good because it gives you bonuses with no downside. Yeah, you have to waste a feat to get in, but you get it back from the secret anyway.

You can pay 2-3k to use the Frog God's Fane power from CS to get the Skill Focus to qualify anyway. You were probably already taking the metamagics.

[TypoNinja]

Aquatic Spellcasting can be either nearly useless or the best feat you'll ever take depending on circumstances.


Water does not impede your spells. Creatures partially or completely submerged do not gain cover or total cover when you cast a spell from outside the water. The surface does not block line of effect for any spell, including spells with the fire descriptor. You need not make a Spellcraft check to cast a fire spell underwater.

Being able to stand on the deck of the ship and still cast at things underwater is very very nice.

[Fates]

Actually, they don't stack with the feats, for one simple reason: You don't have those feats, because you're not an idiot, and used your feat selections for things that were actually useful.

There are zillions of PrCs that require them, Iron Will in particular. Beyond that, I agree, they're pretty damn mediocre.

[Slipperychicken]

So, one of the secrets a lore master can learn is, "Applicable knowledge," which allows him/her to gain, "any one feat." As far as I know it means just that, any feat, regardless of prerequisite feats, ability scores, level, anything! So, if you could draw any feat from any official 3.5-d20 source for a wizard, what would it be? I'm looking for the most hilarious/broken feats out there.

Since it takes a feat to enter Loremaster, the prestige class is sometimes used to "delay" a feat until you qualify for the feat you want. There are a few decent uses for that trick, but I don't recall them off the top of my head.

[Killer Angel]

I don't think this properly takes into account how Fort and Will saves work. Often they might not directly kill you, but they weaken you a lot more than hit point loss. Sometimes they take you out of the fight (which might result in another party member dying). So overall that thread isn't remotely convincing.

It could be, I don't recall if there were details about those particulars, but each cause of death was analyzed.
IMO, it's still an anedoctal evidence that ref save shouldn't be immediately droppable: and also a fail ref save, even if it doesn't kill you, can weaken you for a successive "death by HP". Or can make you a valid target for "word of..."

[bekeleven]

Once again, there are plenty of ref save-or-sucks. Some (resilient sphere) are situational, others (enveloping cocoon) are less so. They tend to include escape clauses for teleportation, but plenty of enemies lack that, and some restrict casting.

[Killer Angel]

yep that too.
I'm not trying to diminish the importance of will and for, but ref isn't the little brother...

[Chronos]

Eh, Reflex certainly isn't useless, but a failed Ref save usually means "it's easier for something else to make you lose". A failed Fort save, though, usually means "You lose, right now", and a failed Will save means either that, or "You and one other party member both lose".