[Spoiler] Miko to the rescue?

[Iranon]

I see several 'mini-plots' converge:

- The abandonment of the LG by Pompey and Leeky
- Miko being cautioned to not Detect Evil without provocation
- Her conviction that the OotS are nefarious villains
- Shojo's underhanded way of ruling

Is there enough to push Miko into doing something drastic when she finds out the Linear Guild, who she will assume to be innocent victims, is being held without charges? All-out rebellion would probably be out of character (although I don't know what applies to paladins when their legitimate ruler commits an act that appears outright chaotic and evil); I could see her demanding a fair trial forcefully or even attempting to remove Shojo from rulership if the laws of Azure City have an established procedure for unfit rulers.

Shojo flat-out said that some of his behaviour would 'not be tolerated' by his paladins without the guise of senility. Maybe he has pushed it too far this time. On the other hand, I don't think something quite as drastic will happen; my prediction is that she will loose them during the invasion, when order breaks down and she can't justify leaving them to their deaths.

[Morty]

I think that if she finds LG she'll think that Lord Shojo has a good reason to keep them in prison without informing anyone. She's still loyal to him, after all.

[Snake-Aes]

as Iranon said, she would defy Shojo in some way to give them a fair trial or so.... But who knows, as far as we know Miko won't even have the time to reach Prison...unless the gate's there

[teratorn]

as Iranon said, she would defy Shojo in some way to give them a fair trial or so.... But who knows, as far as we know Miko won't even have the time to reach Prison...unless the gate's there

But then she would have a dilemma. She's not only a paladin, she is a samurai, she can not go against her lord's will. She could defy Shojo and do what's fair as a paladin but then she would probably kill herself for failing her lord as a samurai. But I don't believe any of that will happen. Incarceration of those three is for the sake of existence itself and Miko likes to play cop judge and executioner. Probably she would complain about the waste in not killing them.

On the other hand if her lord gets killed by Xykon she would be compelled to kill herself for failing him. I'm very curious to see the Giant's take on the upcoming battle.

[Renegade Paladin]

"What is this 'Japan' you speak of? I've never heard of it before."

Nothing we have indicates that the Samurai of the southern lands have the same obligations of bushido that some of us may be familiar with. We don't know that she'd have to kill herself.

[TinSoldier]

"What is this 'Japan' you speak of? I've never heard of it before."

Nothing we have indicates that the Samurai of the southern lands have the same obligations of bushido that some of us may be familiar with. We don't know that she'd have to kill herself.True, but there must be some superficial similarity or why use the term "Samurai" at all?

[Renegade Paladin]

There has to be some similarity, but nothing says that the practice of seppuku is it. We've seen plenty of similarities, including service to a liege lord, a strict code of honor defining that service, and even the twisted misconception of the fighting style that is common to D&D. We have no indication that it would extend to ritual suicide over continuing her duties as a paladin.

[Wiione]

They use the daisho.

[Amon Star]

and even the twisted misconception of the fighting style that is common to D&D.

That appears to just be :miko:, who is NOT typical of the average Azure Guardsmen. At least, the Samurai here were using a single blade;

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html

[Haruki-kun]

There has to be some similarity, but nothing says that the practice of seppuku is it. We've seen plenty of similarities, including service to a liege lord, a strict code of honor defining that service, and even the twisted misconception of the fighting style that is common to D&D. We have no indication that it would extend to ritual suicide over continuing her duties as a paladin.

I agree. The Saphire Guard is BASED on Japanese Samurai, Miko included, but I don't think it has to be EXACTLY like it.

[Renegade Paladin]

They use the daisho.
And? Using both swords of the daisho together in a two-weapon style was remarkably uncommon, to say the least. A katana is designed as a two-handed weapon. There have been occasional techniques that use both, but by and large the wakizashi wasn't even carried in combat. The daisho was a status symbol, with the wakizashi replaced with a shorter dagger when actually going to war.

[Green Bean]

I see several 'mini-plots' converge:

- The abandonment of the LG by Pompey and Leeky
- Miko being cautioned to not Detect Evil without provocation
- Her conviction that the OotS are nefarious villains
- Shojo's underhanded way of ruling

Is there enough to push Miko into doing something drastic when she finds out the Linear Guild, who she will assume to be innocent victims, is being held without charges? All-out rebellion would probably be out of character (although I don't know what applies to paladins when their legitimate ruler commits an act that appears outright chaotic and evil); I could see her demanding a fair trial forcefully or even attempting to remove Shojo from rulership if the laws of Azure City have an established procedure for unfit rulers.

Shojo flat-out said that some of his behaviour would 'not be tolerated' by his paladins without the guise of senility. Maybe he has pushed it too far this time. On the other hand, I don't think something quite as drastic will happen; my prediction is that she will loose them during the invasion, when order breaks down and she can't justify leaving them to their deaths.

Only one problem with that theory. The LG will be held in anti-magic cells. This means that :sabine:'s polymorph won't work. No matter how concerned :miko: is about due process, she's not going to let an outsider with bat wings, horns, and a pointy tail even try to get loose.

[Iranon]

As far as I can tell, samurai have been mangled considerably less than paladins (assuming the class as used stems from the peers of Charlemagne and associated legends... the other historical uses of the term are even further off) as it is. As long as some core principles are still recognisable, everything seems fair game - what is this 'Japan' indeed.

Anyway, good point about the conflicting duties of a samurai and a paladin - what would one who is both do when their legitimate ruler seems to commit chaotic evil acts?
I assume most would follow established authority if their code makes conflicting demands, at least until another legitimate authority figure voices dissent. Miko strikes me as more devoted to principles than hierarchies though, and she seems to value her own judgment over that of others to a degree unusual in her alignment. Bit of a wild card...

[Talyn]

As far as I can tell, samurai have been mangled considerably less than paladins (assuming the class as used stems from the peers of Charlemagne and associated legends... the other historical uses of the term are even further off) as it is. As long as some core principles are still recognisable, everything seems fair game - what is this 'Japan' indeed.



Sorry to thread-hijack, but would you mind explaining what you mean by this? I thought a historical Paladin was a knight (that is, a member of the aristocracy who could afford plate armor and a horse) who swore fealty to the Church instead of to a liege lord. That seems to fit the D&D paladin pretty darn well...

[Renegade Paladin]

Well, Paladin was the proper title given to the Twelve Companions of Charlemagne's court, but it also refers to other things, foremost among them a paragon of chivalry. That meaning is why the Companions were titled paladins in the first place, so yes, it fits.

[Iranon]

I'm not saying the fit is bad, just that some liberties were taken. Hence, I don't see the need to incorporate each and every aspect of bushido as we think about it now (the code evolved over time) in the case of samurai.

Class nitpicking apart... strip 405 made me feel somewhat smug and I can't wait for the plot to unroll.

[Snake-Aes]

remember: miko may be a samurai but she's also a paladin. Paladin duties surely "overwrite" her duties with Shojo

[Demented]

Only if she wants them to.
There is no actual proof that Shojo is doing something evil, just lots of circumstancial hearsay and bad coincidences. Miko wouldn't even be suspecting the OOTS of being evil if it weren't for Shojo accusing them of a crime in the first place.

That said, the only reason to suspect that Miko would now be willing to rebel against Shojo is our own suspicions.

After all, the only thing she knows about Shojo right now that's absolutely bad is that he staged a trial, and that he's associating with a mercenary party of questionable ethics for a purpose that may be the destruction of the gates, but one can't be sure.

...Than again, that sounds like a good reason to depose him, even if it's a piss poor argument for an execution. I sense an impeachment coming on....

[TreesOfDeath]

Just about anything could happen. For one thing I think she has renwed fury for the OTTS, especially Roy.
Well shes been loyal to a liar who is also acting agisant the law, what does the law say to do about that? Regardless of that Miko one to fly off the handle, so who knows. Maybe she'd free the Linear Guild join up with them to get revenger on the Order, under the agreement they go back for a fair trial (sounds Mikoish, and Nale appears to have a fair few ranks in bluff.
Whatever happens, I reckon shes going to be going after the Order soon. She probably thinks the gods have exposed thier lies (remeber her praying for it earlier?) so now its smiting time

[Amon Star]

Only if she wants them to.
There is no actual proof that Shojo is doing something evil, just lots of circumstancial hearsay and bad coincidences. Miko wouldn't even be suspecting the OOTS of being evil if it weren't for Shojo accusing them of a crime in the first place.

That said, the only reason to suspect that Miko would now be willing to rebel against Shojo is our own suspicions.

After all, the only thing she knows about Shojo right now that's absolutely bad is that he staged a trial, and that he's associating with a mercenary party of questionable ethics for a purpose that may be the destruction of the gates, but one can't be sure.

...Than again, that sounds like a good reason to depose him, even if it's a piss poor argument for an execution. I sense an impeachment coming on....

Trouble is, :miko:'s judgement is some what impaired when it comes to the OotS. The fact that Shojo is in cohoots with them in such a way is surely not going to sit well with her. I agree with Trees Of Death, she could go any which way at the moment, including allying with the LG.

P.S. It's all :belkar:'s fault.