Level Adjustment Q

[Dr. Azkur]

Does "LA: —" mean it can't be played? What about in the case of a template?

[Diarmuid]

Generally, yes..."LA: -" means "Not intended for use with PC's".

[nedz]

Not suitable for PCs: Races or Templates the same.

Ed: swordsaged

[Urpriest]

LA -- means can't be played, yes. What's more controversial is when a template doesn't list an adjustment to LA. While I think it's safer to assume such templates are also LA --, RAW the absence of an LA entry means they don't adjust the LA of the base creature, and thus are essentially LA +0.

[ShurikVch]

If you really really really wish to get "LA -" template for your PC, you can try to make tauric character and place that "LA -" template on "lower" part. It will be LA +3 plus whatever racial HD of "base creature".

Also, what's the Level Adjustment of Q ? :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c1/Q_%28Star_Trek%29.jpg

[Dr. Azkur]

Well, thanks guys!


Also, what's the Level Adjustment of Q ? :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c1/Q_%28Star_Trek%29.jpg

Well... the Q are supposed to be as powerful as they're cocky so I'd say pretty high.

[Zweisteine]

LA -- does mean that a race/template is not meant for players.

A complete lack of LA means you can't use it, unless you have some other way to find LA (as from a template's example creature), or your DM lets you use CR adjustment as LA (or makes up their own LA).

I don't like the idea of unplayable races, except those that lack sentience (3 int) or have no intelligence score altogether. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head, but some normally unplayable races would be interesting to play.

And Q's level adjustment is clearly +Q.

[Dr. Azkur]

A complete lack of LA means you can't use it, unless you have some other way to find LA (as from a template's example creature), or your DM lets you use CR adjustment as LA (or makes up their own LA).

I don't like the idea of unplayable races, except those that lack sentience (3 int) or have no intelligence score altogether. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head, but some normally unplayable races would be interesting to play.


Me neither.
How/What LA would you apply to the Brood Spawn (EEp37) creature template? They have LA — and the CR is based on the base creature's HD.

[Urpriest]

Me neither.
How/What LA would you apply to the Brood Spawn (EEp37) creature template? They have LA — and the CR is based on the base creature's HD.

I wouldn't. They're pretty directly tied to an Elder Evil, and that sort of thing is best as NPC-only.

[Thurbane]

LA -- means can't be played, yes. What's more controversial is when a template doesn't list an adjustment to LA. While I think it's safer to assume such templates are also LA --, RAW the absence of an LA entry means they don't adjust the LA of the base creature, and thus are essentially LA +0.
This is true - RAW, it's possible to have everyone and everything have the Paragon Creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm) template for free.

I agree that absence of LA should be the same as LA --.

[Particle_Man]

Sadly, some of the cases of LA -- seems to be "given the monster's HD, an appropriate LA would mean that the monster would be over ECL 20 so we are not going to allow that", which seems a shame.

[Dr. Azkur]

I wouldn't. They're pretty directly tied to an Elder Evil, and that sort of thing is best as NPC-only.

I know, it's definitely not something I would play, nor would I let my players throw in some blender just because they look cool (It does look pretty cool). It's mostly related to an hypothetical discussions with my DM.

[TypoNinja]

Sadly, some of the cases of LA -- seems to be "given the monster's HD, an appropriate LA would mean that the monster would be over ECL 20 so we are not going to allow that", which seems a shame.

Agreed, I've run into that a few times in games. The lack of Epic Level support for 3.5 saddens me.

Dragons are the easiest example of this to verify, as soon as HD +LA would top 20 they stop listing an LA.

[Gemini476]

This is true - RAW, it's possible to have everyone and everything have the Paragon Creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm) template for free.

I agree that absence of LA should be the same as LA --.

Eh.
Epic Level Handbook p.156 has a table listing the monsters in the book by CR, with an accompanying ECL. The ECL of the "Paragon, mind flayer" is 26. The Mind flayer has eight Hit Dice, and a standard PHB Mind Flayer has an LA of +7. That adds up to an ECL of 15, meaning that the ECL of the Paragon Mind Flayer is 11 higher than that of a Mind Flayer.

So the Paragon template is +11, I guess? The mind flayer paragon isn't on the SRD for obvious reasons, but yeah.


You might also notice how none of the monsters in the ELH have a listed LA despite having an ECL on the table at the beginning of the chapter. I'm just going to assume that it's a weirdness of 3E and leave it at that.
(A lot of the monsters in the ELH have an ECL, by the way. Mercane are LA+0, for instance. That's kinda neat, although they have 7HD. The Worm That Walks is LA+4, though, which is kinda sad but makes sense since it's basically a Lich.)

[Chronos]

LA, as a concept, wasn't invented until late in 3.0. They had the idea that a creature's ECL could be different from its level shortly after core, but didn't express it as LA until, I believe, Savage Species. So in between, you have the hodgepodge way of expressing it found in ELH and other places.

[Gemini476]

LA, as a concept, wasn't invented until late in 3.0. They had the idea that a creature's ECL could be different from its level shortly after core, but didn't express it as LA until, I believe, Savage Species. So in between, you have the hodgepodge way of expressing it found in ELH and other places.

...That explains a lot, actually. The ECL even refers to something as "Level Adjustment" but never gives any specific values for it, so I was wondering about that.