High level gestalt wizard advice.

[Cirrylius]

So I have an old character concept from back in the day, before I had a good handle on how to optimize, and I'm looking for advice on a bunch of different fronts.

The character is a TN scholar of both the general and the forbidden; someone who was educated in an extremely suspicious, repressive academic setting, who has spent his career learning distasteful and dangerous secrets 1) so that when threats along those lines appear then someone's equipped to deal with them, 2) so others don't have to, and 3) occasionally because of overweaning curiosity. He's a good person, but willing to make the hard decisions that other characters don't want to, so (again) others don't have to. The party role will probably be Batman Wizard/Occasional Blaster/Tenth-rate Skill Monkey.

The character will be starting as a L21 gestalt character, and, the DM warns me, will be on the road to restoring his godhood (which will be fun for me to play, as the character has always been a nontheist:smallbiggrin:)

What I have so far is Wiz5/Master Specialist (Necromancy)2/Loremaster11/Archmage3//Factotum 5/Archivist 16

My rationale:
Wizard 5- I really want that bonus metamagic feat to get Spontaneous Divination from CC, and the ability to speak to my familiar (which is still up in the air ATM).

Master Specialist 2- Nets me Skill Focus (Spellcraft) for Archmage.

Loremaster 11- I'm not a huge fan of this class, especially when
Tainted Scholar fits the concept somewhat better, but I don't want to mess around with new mechanics. Plus my DM's eyes light up in an unhealthy way whenever anybody mentions madness or corruption:smallannoyed:

Archmage 3- The high arcana seem more useful than any other three-level dip I could think of, even if it is stupid feat intensive.

Factotum 5- I like skill points. I really like skill points. :smallbiggrin:I know that's kind of a failing for someone going full caster, but I'm also a big fan of the "add your enormous Intelligence modifier to all sorts of things to save your ass" mechanics. Plus, the points are useful to the Archivist.

Archivist 16- Perfect for flavor, and tons of utility. I'm not too broken up about being denied epic Divine magic for a while, as this DM levels us super fast.

So I guess my questions are

1) Are there any glaring flaws in this build, or classes that fit the concept better, or weak spots I'll have to shore up to make it work, or things that could be done better? I'm looking for mid-high-op, inasmuch as it's possible with this character concept.

2) How will it synergize with Divinity with a portfolio of Knowledge, Secrets, Death(?), and/or Free Will?

3) Is there a better epic PrC for this sort of thing than Epic Loremaster? It's kind of dull:smallyuk:

4) Can anyone point me to a more general "how to" rundown thread on epic characters? This'll be my first one, and if the answers are already floating around out there, I don't want to waste anyone's time:smallredface:

[EugeneVoid]

For total-op become Undead somehow (Necropolitan)
You become immune to the effects of taint. Spam spells raise taint get more spell per day repeat.

[Kraken]

Are you dead set on merely being a tenth rate skill money? Unseen seer (Complete Mage) is a pretty darned good class, and I can possibly see it fitting your character concept. They get full caster progression and 6+int skills per level from a broad list.

If you're going to go factotum, take it to level 8. Extra actions are pretty darned good.

Consider psion over archivist. The bookkeeping of two separate high level prepared casting classes is onerous, so the psion would make your life much simpler, while still adding tons of utility. Plus, psions use only int for casting, so you eliminate some wis reliance.

[Spuddles]

Easy bake wizard//erudite21

Know everything there is to know about spells and powers and spells as powers.

[Cirrylius]

For total-op become Undead somehow (Necropolitan) You become immune to the effects of taint. Spam spells raise taint get more spell per day repeat.
I'm pretty sure my DM won't let me get away with an infinite loop, but thanks for the suggestion.


Are you dead set on merely being a tenth rate skill money? Unseen seer (Complete Mage) is a pretty darned good class, and I can possibly see it fitting your character concept. They get full caster progression and 6+int skills per level from a broad list.
Ooh, I'd never seen this class before.

But... I don't know... skill points, 1/3 sneak attack progression, and boosted Divination CL in exchange for a reduced overall CL and the Archivist's de/buffs or the Loremaster's... stuff? I'll have to think about it.


If you're going to go factotum, take it to level 8. Extra actions are pretty darned good.
I didn't think that one extra action per combat would be overwhelmingly useful compared to three caster levels, especially considering the same character has access to Time Stop. Was I wrong?


Consider psion over archivist.

Easy bake wizard//erudite21
I don't think we're doing psionics, but I'll have to ask to make sure.


Plus, psions use only int for casting, so you eliminate some wis reliance.
Thankfully, we're not hurting on either ability-boosting gear or ability scores, but the point is taken:smallsmile:


The bookkeeping of two separate high level prepared casting classes is onerous
Yeah, no, I'm not looking forward to that:smallannoyed:

[(Un)Inspired]

take factotum to 11. Archivist is really cool but you're not really getting anything from it that you couldn't get from your wizard side already. With factotum 11 you'll never need to worry about spell resistance ever again.

[Spuddles]

There's a feat you can take for extra inspiration points, gaining a cumulatively increasing number of points. Font of Inspiration. Google it.

Combine with limited wishing up a psionic reformation on adventuring days to trade out unneeded crafting feats or what have you.

[Kraken]

Yeah, font of inspiration is an addictive feat, give it a look. For the lost caster levels of unseen seer, one feat (practised spellcaster Complete Arcane) eliminates that issue.

[Spuddles]

Yeah, font of inspiration is an addictive feat, give it a look. For the lost caster levels of unseen seer, one feat (practised spellcaster Complete Arcane) eliminates that issue.

If you're picking up practiced spellcaster, you may as well nab that trait that gives you +1 cl to a school of magic and -1 to all the others.

[Barmoz]

Being great at arcane and divine is all well and good, but it suffers from lack of actions. I'm currently looking into this situation for a game and I'm thinking you're best off focusing on one type of magic source; arcane, divine or psionic, and then getting into a PRC asap. Use your offside to get CL in any missing levels, or taking classes that can get you extra actions / better saves / bonus feats / higher BAB for touch attacks etc.

[DMVerdandi]

Easy bake wizard//erudite21

Know everything there is to know about spells and powers and spells as powers.

archivist//erudite 21 would be so much better. spell to power will give all the arcane casting necessary.

actually, throwing in factotum for that first level instead of archivist and taking able learner will net all skills as class skills.

all skills, all arcane, all divine, all psion powers. good god...

[Jack_Simth]

The character is a TN scholar of both the general and the forbidden; someone who was educated in an extremely suspicious, repressive academic setting, who has spent his career learning distasteful and dangerous secrets 1) so that when threats along those lines appear then someone's equipped to deal with them, 2) so others don't have to, and 3) occasionally because of overweaning curiosity. He's a good person, but willing to make the hard decisions that other characters don't want to, so (again) others don't have to. The party role will probably be Batman Wizard/Occasional Blaster/Tenth-rate Skill Monkey.

The character will be starting as a L21 gestalt character, and, the DM warns me, will be on the road to restoring his godhood (which will be fun for me to play, as the character has always been a nontheist:smallbiggrin:)

What I have so far is Wiz5/Master Specialist (Necromancy)2/Loremaster11/Archmage3//Factotum 5/Archivist 16

My rationale:
Wizard 5- I really want that bonus metamagic feat to get Spontaneous Divination from CC, and the ability to speak to my familiar (which is still up in the air ATM).

Master Specialist 2- Nets me Skill Focus (Spellcraft) for Archmage.

Loremaster 11- I'm not a huge fan of this class, especially when
Tainted Scholar fits the concept somewhat better, but I don't want to mess around with new mechanics. Plus my DM's eyes light up in an unhealthy way whenever anybody mentions madness or corruption:smallannoyed:

Archmage 3- The high arcana seem more useful than any other three-level dip I could think of, even if it is stupid feat intensive.

Factotum 5- I like skill points. I really like skill points. :smallbiggrin:I know that's kind of a failing for someone going full caster, but I'm also a big fan of the "add your enormous Intelligence modifier to all sorts of things to save your ass" mechanics. Plus, the points are useful to the Archivist.

Archivist 16- Perfect for flavor, and tons of utility. I'm not too broken up about being denied epic Divine magic for a while, as this DM levels us super fast.

So I guess my questions are

1) Are there any glaring flaws in this build, or classes that fit the concept better, or weak spots I'll have to shore up to make it work, or things that could be done better? I'm looking for mid-high-op, inasmuch as it's possible with this character concept.

2) How will it synergize with Divinity with a portfolio of Knowledge, Secrets, Death(?), and/or Free Will?

3) Is there a better epic PrC for this sort of thing than Epic Loremaster? It's kind of dull:smallyuk:

4) Can anyone point me to a more general "how to" rundown thread on epic characters? This'll be my first one, and if the answers are already floating around out there, I don't want to waste anyone's time:smallredface:
Let's see...

1) First off, Epic Spellcasting is borked (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=791074&postcount=9). If it's in play, and you don't take it, you can VERY EASILY get creamed by someone who knows how to game the system.
2) Ignoring Epic Spellcasting, low Epic is very similar to high normal play, but with a handful of extra options.
3) You're doing Gestalt. That is it's own can of worms. One of your biggest issues with your build will be the action economy - you simply won't be able to get through your spell slots in a reasonable time frame. So you pick one side to be the 'primary' or 'active' side, and set the other up to do stuff that helps, but doesn't require an action - monstrous LA, passive benefits to saves, AC, SR, things that give you more actions, et cetera.

Keeping with the trained motif, I might suggest something like....
Gray Elf (MMI, +0) Ghost (MMI, LA+5 - acquired, but you want this before Tainted Scholar as being undead makes you immune to the negative effects of Taint)/Factotum-11/[Fill with dips from Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6970727&postcount=1) on your stat of choice - either Charisma or Int, whichever you plan to have higher - making sure to pick up both Evasion and Mettle]
Wizard-1(Easy Bake build (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9738.msg329051#msg329051))/Tainted Scholar-10/Other full advancement PrC's to taste - I would recommend going Loremaster-10, and sticking with it for future advancement, for the Epic Bonus Feats.

Very useful feats to have:
Faerie Mysteries Initiate (Dragon 319): One of the options has your Int score replace your Con score for purposes of HP calculations. You don't have a con score, so...
Ghostly Grasp (Libris Mortis): Fixes the issues with re-equipping yourself.
Flyby Attack (Monster Manual): As an incorporeal critter, this lets you duck underground and deny your opponents Line of Effect to you when it's not your turn.
Ascetic Mage / Carmandine Monk / Kung-Fu Genius: Changes monk (and in some cases, all sources of Wis to AC) to either Charisma or Int.
Alacritous Cogitation: Complete Mage: 1/day, cast any spell you know as a full-round action out of an un-prepared spell slot of that level or higher.
Uncanny Forethought: Exemplars of Evil (doesn't require Evil, however): Alacritous Cogitation on Steroids: It's Int Mod times per day.
Summon Elemental: One of the ghost options, Draining Touch, turns this feat into uncapped non-combat self-healing. Also useful as a trap springer. Make sure to grab a permanent Detect Magic or Arcane Sight as well.
Planar Touchstone(Catalog of Enlightenment): Planar Handbook: Take a domain power. Pride lets you reroll all 1's on saves. Plus, you know, thematic for where you're going.
Epic Spellcasting: Epic Level Handbook: This is pretty much required for epic characters if the feat is in play. It's basically the only thing that can defend against Epic Spellcasting, you see.

Factotum-3 helps avoid stuff.
Factotum-8 gets you Cunning Surge. If you're Int based, you can do this more than once an encounter, which can seriously help out in ending encounters before your opponent can go.
Factotum-11 pretty much lets you ignore SR.
Ghost makes you Undead (which you want, for Tainted Scholar - you can have an arbitrarily high Taint score, and thus, arbitrarily high save DC and bonus spell slots - and oh yes, undead ignore the negative effects of taint) and also gives you a get out of death free card you can use basically whenever.
The Easy Bake Wizard setup on an Elf means you pretty much act as a Sorcerer a bunch of times per day, while getting enough spells that you aren't overly dependant on finding them. Oh yes, and your spellbook can't be stolen. Only downside is that you can't make use of Baccob's Blessed Book for copying spells... but at 5 spells known per level, you get enough that it's going to be fine, really).
Tainted Scholar, when combined with Ghost, gets you arbitrarily high save DC's and bonus spells.
Loremaster is primarily for the Epic Bonus feats later. Yes, they are worth it.

[zlefin]

I'd recommend taking one level in swordsage somewhere midlevel or higher (so you can get maneuvers of level 3+).
You're going to have a high concentration check anyways; getting all those save abilities in diamond mind is handy.

[Endarire]

Trait: Spellgifted

Strictly for those with Practiced Spellcaster or the like, or who like doing specialty stuff.

What about going Incantatrix (from Player's Guide to Faerun) instead of Loremaster? You can persist a lot of buffs that way! And you get 4 bonus metamagic feats over 10 levels, and a buncha other stuffies! And there's an official Incantatrix epic progression in the same book!

I advise going at least Factotum8 for the extra actions. Ask your GM if you can use Cunning Surge more than once per turn. If so, bwahahahaha! If not, it's still brilliantly good.

Have you considered Spellguard of Silverymoon (Player's Guide to Faerun)? Selective Spell is wonderful for certain things, like Selective antimagic field that doesn't affect you. Also, you get Spellguard, which is the ability to cast personal only spells at Touch range. Hello, shapechange on your party!

Familiar: Hummingbird (+4 initiative) is wonderful. At this point, you may need it. Otherwise, Raven is spiffy kuz it can hold wands/scrolls and use UMD to activate 'em, and it has speech.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I didn't think that one extra action per combat would be overwhelmingly useful compared to three caster levels, especially considering the same character has access to Time Stop. Was I wrong?
Extra actions are the most valuable currency in 3.5, and Factotum 8 does a fantastic job getting them. One Font of Inspiration gets you two extra actions per combat, not counting standard wizard tricks. If you can't end an encounter in 3 standard actions as a level 20 wizard, you ain't trying.

If you don't go for it, though, I'd stop taking Factotum at 3, after you get the last of the early Int-for-Everything.

Take a level of Monk with Kung-Fu Genius to get a constant Int-to-AC.

You might want to use Ur-Priest instead of Archivist-- faster casting progression and all that.

[Zweisteine]

If you can convince your DM to let you, you might want to use the Paragon Creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm) template. I would suggest a +15 LA if you go for this (i.e. using the template's CR adjustment as LA).

If you want to convince your DM, point out that most of the template's bonuses are typed, so they won't stack with a lot of stuff. (though +15 ability scores is not, and that's probably the best part)

[Grod_The_Giant]

If you can convince your DM to let you, you might want to use the Paragon Creature (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm) template. I would suggest a +15 LA if you go for this (i.e. using the template's CR adjustment as LA).
Aren't you supposed to apply LA to both sides of a gestalt?

[Zweisteine]

I see nothing saying that it should, and if it does, level adjustment is something you should never have in gestalt, because it's so much weaker. If LA goes to both sides, it becomes character-breakingly weak, I'd say.

[Jack_Simth]

Aren't you supposed to apply LA to both sides of a gestalt?
How it is dealt with is not specified. I've seen DM's run it three basic ways (well, four, but 'not allowed' doesn't count):
1) LA goes on one side, you pair it with class levels on the other. (Sor-10//Ghost-5/Hexblade-5)
2) Split the LA between both sides: Ghost-2/Sor-8//Ghost-3/Hexblade-7)
3) What you said: Applies to both: LA+5: Sor-5//Hexblade-5