Mage Slayer Build

[j_spencer93]

Ok for a colosseum battle coming up i am making themed characters and the last one if a mage slayer. I have made him a Karsite Hexblade 5, Occult Slayer 5 and am not willing to change those classes but are their any other melee classes solely focused on disrupting magic and killing mages?
He also has the mage slayer feat.

[LordHenry]

Monk 2: Pick up some ACF, I especially like Spell Reflection form Complete Mage. Also, the saves are nice.

[(Un)Inspired]

Maybe an Egoist? Being able to take extra move and standard actions and have you're psicrystal concentrate on telekinetic grapples for you could put the squeeze on a low op caster.

Not to mention an egoist's metamorphosis abilities.

[j_spencer93]

so basically no there is no other class like occult slayer?

[(Un)Inspired]

It you're desperate to swing weapons at people try out an arcane archer. Stick with the classics and pin a AMZ to someones chest.

[Karnith]

so basically no there is no other class like occult slayer?
There aren't very many effective ones, no, especially not for a character who can't cast spells (which rules out things like Suel Arcanamach). Witch Slayer, in Tome of Magic, is a thematically-similar class, and its 5th-level ability could be useful depending on the op-level you're playing at, but as a Hexblade you've already got the other big thing it gives you (Mettle). Witch Hunter, from Oriental Adventures, is at least theoretically another one worth considering, but it's 3.0 and doesn't offer a lot beyond the first level. You also can't qualify unless you have a way of getting Magic Circle Against Evil.

You could dip into Ranger for a level to get Arcane Hunter, an ACF from Complete Mage. Paladin offers a number of things that could be useful, if you can get around the alignment issues.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Define "coliseum battle."

If you're talking about a "we start on level ground, inside an arena, on the count of three" type of thing, you're doomed. Only user error on the part of the wizard's player will leave you with a shot at all. The breadth and depth of the wizard list is all but insurmountable to any non-caster.

If you're talking about a "Here's your enemies name. He knows you're coming. Good luck," type of thing then you've got a slim shot if you can lure him into a trap; an ambush where you lock him down (dimension locked and enclosed space) and hit him hard and fast.


The above assumes relatively high level. There's an inverse correlation between the level of the competitors and the warrior's chances of victory. Unfortunately for the warrior, level 7 is about the point where the wizard pulls far enough ahead that the above becomes nearly always true. Before that it's anybody's game.

I can copypasta my standard game plan for taking out a caster as a non-caster if you like.

[j_spencer93]

ya but have several maps made of different terrains and features that on a 50% the player or NPC gets to choose where to fight.
Also right now im looking at saves in high tens, will going past 20 vs spells, on same note SR 32, and thinking of a high cloak of resistance to boost saves further.
Oh and all they get to know if the name of thier opponent and a picture.

[j_spencer93]

Oh ya forgot to mention players are entering at level 20, no experience is given (kinda like testing them throughout entire thing, all opponents are CR20, who ever wins gets a free wish), the player's actually came up with the idea and he is only one of many.
Oh and wish is removed from my game, thought it sounded cheesey for a player to use, only Deities and creatures that have it naturally can use it.

[TheMonocleRogue]

I've done an anti-mage build before so here's what I would suggest to best defend against common caster setups.


Protection from caster summons. You can counter summoned creatures of a particular alignment by using protection from good/evil/chaos/law on yourself. You can get wands for these spells relatively cheap and they last a long time in combat.
Immunity to mind-affecting spells. Since you already have five levels in OS you should have permanent mind blank which is good against wizards/sorcerers who love enchantment.
Grappling. Mages have crappy base attack bonus and tend to have low strength, especially if they min/max their build. Grapple checks tend to suck in their favor. Since you have levels in hexblade I'd recommend an improved familiar that has good grapple checks and go for that.
Dispelling. If a caster spends time buffing up before the start of the fight it makes the fight that much harder if you can't get rid of the buffs.
Locking down teleports. There is a pair of manacles known as dimensional shackles which, when used to detain a character, prevents extra-dimensional travel. Grapple check then slap on the manacles to keep the caster in one place. If they don't have still spell you have won the fight at this point.

[Emperor Tippy]

If the wizard is played even half competently then you stand not a chance in hell.

If the wizard is well played then he can kill you by punching you to death. Why? Because he is immune to death. As in you flat out do not have the capability to kill him regardless of what you do.

[Kraken]

At the very least, get favored enemy (arcanists) and the nemesis feat from Book of Exalted Deeds. That'll help a little.

[j_spencer93]

Oh forgot to mention, idk who will actually fight who, basically done random but i know the player's and none of them really have any buff's past mage armor. One literally focuses in ice and electrical spells (idk why, very poorly made) and the other is prob the best made force mage i have seen but has very few abilities that are not subject to SR.
In this case, someone might not even fight this character (who i finished now).

[eggynack]

Many of a wizard's best offensive strategies don't need to touch saves or SR at all. Such is the nature of spells. Only magic may defeat magic, for magic has offenses for whom their are no mundane defenses, and magic has defenses which can not be bypassed by any mundane source. Your only hope is a crappy opponent, which isn't necessarily unfeasible.

[j_spencer93]

Oh tippy, i know the cheese wizards can do but my player's do not play like that. Actually they more try to use spells to either barrage target to death (electrical ice specialist) or as the force mage block them in, pelt with magic missile (or the other spells almost identical) and try to use his other spells (most fire) to deal more damage or catch surroundings on fire. however this same character raided 3 Zelkuir's bodies when they died in the story (he was not supposed to) and has a staff of power, idk what that is so i will ask, is that staff overpowered?

[j_spencer93]

Many of a wizard's best offensive strategies don't need to touch saves or SR at all. Such is the nature of spells. Only magic may defeat magic, for magic has offenses for whom their are no mundane defenses, and magic has defenses which can not be bypassed by any mundane source. Your only hope is a crappy opponent, which isn't necessarily unfeasible.

I am thinking the way my player's are set up they actually focus to much on directly offensive damage dealing spells

[j_spencer93]

Anyways thanks, i have him done now. Have a good night
Ps: aren't truenamers the best! lol jk

[Kelb_Panthera]

Good luck then.


BTW, you see that little quotation mark right next to the quote button? That's the multiquote button. Click that on each of the posts you'd like to address and then click reply and you can answer all of them in one post instead of having to spam posts like that. Just a little FYI.

[j_spencer93]

Good luck then.


BTW, you see that little quotation mark right next to the quote button? That's the multiquote button. Click that on each of the posts you'd like to address and then click reply and you can answer all of them in one post instead of having to spam posts like that. Just a little FYI.

ya i actually completely forgot about that, sorry.

[(Un)Inspired]

Oh tippy, i know the cheese wizards can do but my player's do not play like that. Actually they more try to use spells to either barrage target to death (electrical ice specialist) or as the force mage block them in, pelt with magic missile (or the other spells almost identical) and try to use his other spells (most fire) to deal more damage or catch surroundings on fire. however this same character raided 3 Zelkuir's bodies when they died in the story (he was not supposed to) and has a staff of power, idk what that is so i will ask, is that staff overpowered?

It seemly that your characters main power isn't Mage slaying; it's choosing incompetent enemies.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Oh tippy, i know the cheese wizards can do but my player's do not play like that. Actually they more try to use spells to either barrage target to death (electrical ice specialist) or as the force mage block them in, pelt with magic missile (or the other spells almost identical) and try to use his other spells (most fire) to deal more damage or catch surroundings on fire. however this same character raided 3 Zelkuir's bodies when they died in the story (he was not supposed to) and has a staff of power, idk what that is so i will ask, is that staff overpowered?

Tippy isn't talking about cheese at all, just spells being used to their expected effects. For instance, how does your mage-slayer deal with being trapped in a force cage? A solid fog? How does he target an invisible foe? One in flight? How about picking the appropriate target when the caster's under a mirror image effect? Casters are dangerous. Fireball hucking artillery is one of the weakest archetypes unless they seriously work their metamagics.

The staff of power is a lesser artifact, if memory serves, that has a few powers, as is typical of a magic staff, but is famous for the fact that it creates a powerful explosion when broken.

[eggynack]

The staff of power is a lesser artifact, if memory serves, that has a few powers, as is typical of a magic staff, but is famous for the fact that it creates a powerful explosion when broken.
I think you're thinking of the staff of the magi. A staff of power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/staffs.htm#power) actually does a lot of the same stuff, except it's an expensive item instead of an artifact, and it does different stuff within the parameters you've stated.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I think you're thinking of the staff of the magi. A staff of power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/staffs.htm#power) actually does a lot of the same stuff, except it's an expensive item instead of an artifact, and it does different stuff within the parameters you've stated.

I stand corrected.

[12owlbears]

trapped in a force cage? A solid fog? How does he target an invisible foe? One in flight? How about picking the appropriate target when the caster's under a mirror image effect?

smash the cage, smash the fog, look for foot prints, jump, hit the targets until one says ouch

[Saidoro]

smash the cage, smash the fog, look for foot prints, jump, hit the targets until one says ouch
The cage cannot be smashed, nor can the fog. A flying mage leaves no foot prints and they do so at a height well above the highest point to which a warrior can jump. Also, the caster can toss up mirror images faster than most warriors can kill them. And the caster can do all of these things at once using only a fraction of their resources.

[(Un)Inspired]

The cage cannot be smashed, nor can the fog. A flying mage leaves no foot prints and they do so at a height well above the highest point to which a warrior can jump. Also, the caster can toss up mirror images faster than most warriors can kill them. And the caster can do all of these things at once using only a fraction of their resources.

...and can do them all in one turn. In fact, he can do them all on the warriors turn.

[12owlbears]

The cage cannot be smashed, nor can the fog. A flying mage leaves no foot prints and they do so at a height well above the highest point to which a warrior can jump. Also, the caster can toss up mirror images faster than most warriors can kill them. And the caster can do all of these things at once using only a fraction of their resources.


...and can do them all in one turn. In fact, he can do them all on the warriors turn.

are you sure? I don't know the rules very well but logic dictates that anything solid can be smashed. The foot prints thing refers to the invisibility. I highly doubt that. Than just hit the right one the first time. no they can't that's cheating.

[eggynack]

are you sure? I don't know the rules very well but logic dictates that anything solid can be smashed.
Not a force cage, at least not through normal weapon damage. It's a cage made of force. It just is. To cite wall of force, which sets a reasonable basis for how possible it is to harm a force based thing, "It is immune to damage of all kinds, and it is unaffected by most spells."

[12owlbears]

Not a force cage, at least not through normal weapon damage. It's a cage made of force. It just is. To cite wall of force, which sets a reasonable basis for how possible it is to harm a force based thing, "It is immune to damage of all kinds, and it is unaffected by most spells."

Ok but does it cover the ground. Maybe Mr. Hypothetical brought his gloves of burrowing(might not be a real thing) the day he decided to fight Cheaty McWizzbiz. Also it's called cage of force so obviously it has bars like a cage and like any proper cage they are just wide enough for you to squeeze through

[eggynack]

Ok but does it cover the ground.

Yes. The forcecage is a cube.


Also it's called cage of force so obviously it has bars like a cage and like any proper cage they are just wide enough for you to squeeze through
There are actually rules for that stuff. If we're using the barred cage version then the bars have half inch gaps. The windowless cell version, which is pretty likely to contain a fighter who isn't really pumping size, lacks even that small of an escape route.

[Kraken]

Ok but does it cover the ground. Maybe Mr. Hypothetical brought his gloves of burrowing(might not be a real thing) the day he decided to fight Cheaty McWizzbiz. Also it's called cage of force so obviously it has bars like a cage and like any proper cage they are just wide enough for you to squeeze through

You should probably go ahead and read the spell before offering any solutions at this point. Forcecage, and all the other Player's Handbook spells, can be found HERE (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/spells.htm).

[12owlbears]

Yes. The forcecage is a cube.


There are actually rules for that stuff. If we're using the barred cage version then the bars have half inch gaps. The windowless cell version, which is pretty likely to contain a fighter who isn't really pumping size, lacks even that small of an escape route.

if it was a cube it would be called forcecube it is obviously a cage made out of force that naturally has fighter sized gapes in it

[Kelb_Panthera]

A Forcecage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/forcecage.htm) covers all six sides of a cube or rectangular prism as either a lattice of force or as six solid planes. It's not subject to normal damage, it extends into the ethereal plane in the same place, and it lasts for hours/level. Unless you can produce the effect of disintegrate or are carrying a rod of cancellation for every one the caster might place around you, you're hosed unless you can teleport.

A Solid fog (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/solidFog.htm) isn't actually solid but it slows you to a crawl while the caster pelts you with spells with relative impunity.

A wizard doesn't have to screw with action economy breakers to completely overwhelm non-casters. However, a contingent (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/contingency.htm) celerity (http://dndtools.eu/spells/players-handbook-ii--80/celerity--3003/) set to activate when you cast nerveskitter (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/nerveskitter--4591/) means that the wizard -always- goes first.

[(Un)Inspired]

no they can't that's cheating.

It's hard to elucidate the difficulties that a player might have when trying to build an effective character when you ignore the rules and simply say that a wizard is "cheating"...

[eggynack]

if it was a cube it would be called forcecube it is obviously a cage made out of force that naturally has fighter sized gapes in it
So, may I take that as tacit agreement with the premise that any halfway optimized wizard is going to crush a "mage slayer" into a chunky mess? I mean, your other plans, like just happening to get the one in five-eight or so chance necessary to hit the non-image, or somehow spotting the footprints of what will inevitably be a flying enemy, are equally problematic. It's vaguely plausible to kill a really suboptimal wizard, but if the wizard is trying at all then a mage slayer is horribly screwed.

[Rizban]

I think the lot of you are missing out on the whole "blue text is sarcasm" thing and are being trolled...

[eggynack]

I think the lot of you are missing out on the whole "blue text is sarcasm" thing and are being trolled...
I understand that it's sarcasm. My first response to the sarcasm was explaining how the stuff he was being sarcastic about actually works, and the second was asserting that his purely sarcastic comment was one of mage slayer based surrender.

[12owlbears]

Originally I was trying to think of creative way to get around the whole "magic trumps everything rulers" but after that I was just being silly. I know you can't punch through a forcecage(though that would be awesome), you probably can't jump as high as a wizard can fly(though their might be), yes I understand that McWizzbiz is probably invisible as well as flying, and yes I know that the chance of hitting the real wizard is very slim. To be honest I'm pretty sure the op's question was answered after the first few posts I'm just wasting peoples time with nonsensical suggestions like call the mage a wimpy cheater until they burst into tears or agree to a one on one fist fight with no magic or weapons (hey it can't be worse than anything else I've suggested)

[Kelb_Panthera]

call the mage a wimpy cheater until they burst into tears or agree to a one on one fist fight with no magic or weapons (hey it can't be worse than anything else I've suggested)

So...... only challenge the lowest wisdom wizards you can find? :smalltongue:


In all seriousness, a non-caster mage-hunter -can- be successful, relatively speaking, but it's very, very difficult. It's a game of tilting everything that the non-caster can control against the caster and using a few items that produce spell effects to overcome the worst issues that he has to bypass then hitting the caster hard and fast before he has the chance to collect himself.

I understand Emperor Tippy, one of the premier optimizers around these parts, has a mage-hunter build of his own. Perhaps he'd share it with us again or a bit of google-fu could probably find it.

[(Un)Inspired]

Originally I was trying to think of creative way to get around the whole "magic trumps everything rulers" but after that I was just being silly. I know you can't punch through a forcecage(though that would be awesome), you probably can't jump as high as a wizard can fly(though their might be), yes I understand that McWizzbiz is probably invisible as well as flying, and yes I know that the chance of hitting the real wizard is very slim. To be honest I'm pretty sure the op's question was answered after the first few posts I'm just wasting peoples time with nonsensical suggestions like call the mage a wimpy cheater until they burst into tears or agree to a one on one fist fight with no magic or weapons (hey it can't be worse than anything else I've suggested)

I think it only counts as creativity if you come up with ideas that bare fruit. Fighting a mage is difficult but not impossible. It helps to be a mage yourself.

[12owlbears]

So...... only challenge the lowest wisdom wizards you can find? :smalltongue:


It's situational sure but it works. Also I can't believe I didn't mention this before but you could try to iron hart surge the force cage

[DR27]

{{scrubbed}}

[Rizban]

It's situational sure but it works. Also I can't believe I didn't mention this before but you could try to iron hart surge the force cage

That's brilliant! First a big wooden horse, and now an iron hart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hart_(deer))! The wizard will never see it coming!

Seriously though, iron heart surge can practically ignore anything. It's so badly written...

[12owlbears]

That's how you get them, Wizards think their prepared for everything but unfortunately for them they didn't prepare protect from metallic Cervidae this morning .

[Kelb_Panthera]

That's how you get them, Wizards think their prepared for everything but unfortunately for them they didn't prepare protect from metallic Cervidae this morning .

*ahem* Repel metal *ahem*

[Firechanter]

So at the very least you need a bunch of items.
- something to See Invis (Blindsight or w/e)
- something to make you fly
- something to allow you to translocate several times
- and oh something to get rid of DimLock
- something to see through illusions
- something to avoid being dispelled

etc.etc...
and at level 20, the Wizard will have like 50+ spells per Day, and your items are prolly gonna work like what, 1-3/day?
Best of luck.

[iceman10058]

rogue shadowdancer, you will be able to get into melee fast then use imp feint to leave him flat footed and sneak attack

[Gavinfoxx]

rogue shadowdancer, you will be able to get into melee fast then use imp feint to leave him flat footed and sneak attack

You're kidding, right?

[Bickerstaff]

Originally I was trying to think of creative way to get around the whole "magic trumps everything rulers" but after that I was just being silly. I know you can't punch through a forcecage(though that would be awesome), you probably can't jump as high as a wizard can fly(though their might be), yes I understand that McWizzbiz is probably invisible as well as flying, and yes I know that the chance of hitting the real wizard is very slim. To be honest I'm pretty sure the op's question was answered after the first few posts I'm just wasting peoples time with nonsensical suggestions like call the mage a wimpy cheater until they burst into tears or agree to a one on one fist fight with no magic or weapons (hey it can't be worse than anything else I've suggested)

In Pathfinder you can punch spells to make them stop.

Barbarians with the Spell Sunder rage power (and Dwarves with the Shatterspell feat) can sunder ongoing spell effects, and only have to hit a CMD of 15+Caster level (or CMD+5 for buffs and such on a creature). Those CMDs are pretty easy to meet (especially the buffs one against a wizard-type), so get punching!

[MOLOKH]

It's a DC 120 Escape Artist check to find a gap in a Wall of Force or a similar effect so there's that. Also you can technically squeeze through the bars of a force cage if you're about an inch across and the caster chose that version of the spell.

[Fax Celestis]

Surprised no one mentioned the Witch Slayer. PrC in Tome of Magic. MEttle and disjunction smite? Yes please.

[herrhauptmann]

A problem you'll find is that you're using WBL and expensive class/feat choices to do what a caster can do with just his spells.

You've got mageslayer? Also take Blindfight and Pierce Magic Concealment.

A lot of illusion/conjuration spells can be used creatively to ruin a warriors day. PMC is your way to say 'No' to anything that generates a miss chance.

Pierce magic protection isn't as useful. Most casters will boost their miss chances rather than AC, because miss chances are a way to say 'No' to even the most absurd attack bonus. (If it dispelled more than just AC boosts, it would be a lot better. Say any AC boost or abjuration spell.)

Quorbred template in secrets of sarlona (or maybe xendrik) gives you more anti-caster abilities. It's even better if you've got magic/psi transparency. At the cost of more LA though.

You need a good bit of damage. I'd recommend ranger with the strongarm fighting style (dragon mag) with arcane hunter.

Now that you've got FE:Arcanist, take Nemesis from BoED. Within 30 feet, you know where they are. Now that you know their location, you can use PMC to ignore their invisibility (normally you've got to guess the right square)

I suggested strong arm because it trades TWF for 2HF. It also gives you a start on a charger build depending on how many levels you take. Much better than TWF would, which requires buying up two weapons and more feat tax to give it viable damage.

Can you dip into ToB? It probably won't be a long fight, so a late level dip into swordsage would work great. Many maneuvers but you won't have to worry about the recovery mechanic.


Bickerstaff,
I think this is a 3.5 game. Not pathfinder.
Otherwise, good advice.


Thread for advice.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226025
And gestalt: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306620


Surprised no one mentioned the Witch Slayer. PrC in Tome of Magic. MEttle and disjunction smite? Yes please.
Karnith in post #6.

[Artillery]

If you were either a Psychic Warrior or an Egoist and take the Mage slayer line of feats you should be pretty good. Caster level != Manifester Level.

Mage Slayer means no casting defensively when you threaten them and +1 will save.

Pierce Magical Concealment to ignore magical concealment and instantly see through illusions. You can see through a cloud of Obscuring Mist with no problem.
Getting a continuous item of Touchsight does, effectively, the same thing out to 60ft and cost 30k gp.

Pierce Magic Protection I'm not sure about, it gives you automatically successful dispels, which is great, against spells and spell effects that give a bonus to AC, not so broad really. Buts bonus to AC spells besides mage armor, luminous armor line, shield, protection from evil.

Spell Reflection is very nice.

At a certain level a Mage Slayer will need constant freedom of movement or other ways to ignore movement limiting magic, ways to see through illusions and concealment, both magical and natural, and protection against mind-affecting.

If a caster doesn't want to die, they can make sure they won't unless circumstances exceed predictions substantially or they lose initiative.

[Calimehter]

It might be worth mentioning weapons that can dispel. PGtF has a couple IIRC, and there's always the Holy Avenger.

Not that these will dramatically even the odds against a caster or anything, but they might actually allow you to punch your way through some battlefield control spells (though sadly not forcecage) in a very thematic fashion.

[iceman10058]

You're kidding, right?

no, built right, you will get into melee with the wizard before he can react to it, and casters never do well in melee. plus as a rogue, you can easily evade most of the nasty aoe effects he will have and shadowdancer gives you hide in plain sight. cant target what you cannot see. if you can think with tactics and outmanuver the wizard, its very easy. i did it in the past with this build.

[Gavinfoxx]

no, built right, you will get into melee with the wizard before he can react to it, and casters never do well in melee. plus as a rogue, you can easily evade most of the nasty aoe effects he will have and shadowdancer gives you hide in plain sight. cant target what you cannot see. if you can think with tactics and outmanuver the wizard, its very easy. i did it in the past with this build.

Uhm. Wow. I don't know where to start... but, well, this only works against wizards played by people who have no idea how to play wizards. Your group is suuupppeeerrrr low optimization, and the Wizard is much, much, much, much more potentially-powerful a class than how it is being played by that other person, okay?

[herrhauptmann]

i did it in the past with this build.

Good wizards don't allow saves. Or if they do, it's a spell where you still lose even after making the save.
Please give us the full build, and anything else the caster had as well. (Spells, feats, items)

[Gavinfoxx]

Good Wizards also don't need to rely on seeing or hearing you to locate you, too...

[Firechanter]

@herrhauptmann, good post.

re "detecting the Wizard", isn't there a Skill Trick allowing you to See Invis for 1 round?

Another approach:
since this scenario is about level 20, why not go Eternal Blade. This time it's ~you~ interrupting the Wizard and for example peppering him with ~24 arrows as an Immediate Action.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Good Wizards also don't need to rely on seeing or hearing you to locate you, too...Not every wizard has Mindsight or the equivalent. To be honest, a mundane's best bet against a reasonably (but not highly) optimized wizard is probably stealth + darkstalker since the biggest hurdle is actually getting to him.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Not every wizard has Mindsight or the equivalent. To be honest, a mundane's best bet against a reasonably (but not highly) optimized wizard is probably stealth + darkstalker since the biggest hurdle is actually getting to him.

They don't need it. Permanent arcane sight means they pick up any active magic within 120ft of themselves. If you're using -any- ability that has a listed CL (and remember SLA's and SU's have CL equal to the creature's HD) within that range, the wizard knows about it. Mindsight gets better press because it comes online earlier, can't be dispelled, and can detect creatures with no magic at all (who aren't really a threat anyway but, hey, why not?).

If a wizard doesn't see you from a good ways out, it's because he's being careless.

[Mithril Leaf]

For the Stealth Route, you could probably make do with a Marshal 1/Factotum 3 Lesser Half-Giant who's brought down to fine size with Return to Nature and then turned into a Silveraith (no LA ghostly type from City of the Spider Queen) can easily get Cha, Int, Dex, and a hefty racial bonus to Hide, as well as having no need for Move Silently. There are several items that give stacking non-magical circumstance bonuses, plus if it's an allowed source, superior masterwork from War of the Lance.

[herrhauptmann]

For the Stealth Route, you could probably make do with a Marshal 1/Factotum 3 Lesser Half-Giant who's brought down to fine size with Return to Nature and then turned into a Silveraith (no LA ghostly type from City of the Spider Queen) can easily get Cha, Int, Dex, and a hefty racial bonus to Hide, as well as having no need for Move Silently. There are several items that give stacking non-magical circumstance bonuses, plus if it's an allowed source, superior masterwork from War of the Lance.

LA +0? Or LA -?
The latter is not for PCs.

[Rizban]

Silveraith has "Advancement: As base creature." However, City of the Spider Queen is 3.0, not 3.5. As such, level adjustments really were not in existence yet. We know that drow have a +2 LA, but none of the example drow in that book have a listed LA. The CR+2 of the template would lead combined with the advancement line would lead me to give the template at least a +1LA if not +2 once updated to 3.5.

[herrhauptmann]

However, City of the Spider Queen is 3.0, not 3.5. As such, level adjustments really were not in existence yet.
Uhh what?
They had LA ironed out by the time they did the FRCS, which I'm pretty sure was before CotSQ.

[rmnimoc]

Not every wizard has Mindsight or the equivalent. To be honest, a mundane's best bet against a reasonably (but not highly) optimized wizard is probably stealth + darkstalker since the biggest hurdle is actually getting to him.

I'm pretty sure a mundane's best bet is diplomacy. It's easy as it gets to hit any diplomacy check, and if you take a minor penalty you can talk like an auctioneer.

[Mithril Leaf]

Silveraith has "Advancement: As base creature." However, City of the Spider Queen is 3.0, not 3.5. As such, level adjustments really were not in existence yet. We know that drow have a +2 LA, but none of the example drow in that book have a listed LA. The CR+2 of the template would lead combined with the advancement line would lead me to give the template at least a +1LA if not +2 once updated to 3.5.

Nonetheless it was officially not changed, thus still technically legal, and once again your best bet for fighting a caster as a mundane without LA who is sneaking.

[Eldariel]

I'm pretty sure a mundane's best bet is diplomacy. It's easy as it gets to hit any diplomacy check, and if you take a minor penalty you can talk like an auctioneer.

Diplomacy has the problem that PCs are explicitly immune.

[Ghost Nappa]

Diplomacy has the problem that PCs are explicitly immune.

How to beat a Caster as Mundane:

~A Prelude~

If the Caster is an NPC, you can use the Diplomacy skill to make them hate you less. Assuming the worst case scenario (i.e. the caster is hostile) it takes a DC 35 check to improve their behavior towards "Indifferent" over the course of a mere 6 seconds. Like the battle Vs. a house cat, whoever wins Initative wins it all! Unfortunately, this means that a Level 13 or higher Wizard ALWAYS WINS (Contingency + Celerity + Nerveskitter + Killer Filler). The good news is that if for some reason they DON'T want you immediately dead, or if they're sufficiently weak, you can make this check to not die. By Level 5, someone with a Charisma of 10 can Diplomance their way to a score of 15, which is enough to (just barely) make the check. Someone with a higher level and better charisma can do it better and sooner. This is assuming that Bluff, Knowledge (Nobility), Diplomancy, and Sense Motive are class skills and that you have enough skill points per level to get them. This generally requires one of three things:

1) 14+ Int
2) Human w/ 12+ Int
3) Class with 4+INT Skill Pts./Lvl

Additionally, you do of course want a Positive Charisma value to make the check slightly easier. With 18 CHA, you can reach that same 15 score three levels earlier. At Level 20, you hit a BASE score of 33 before you roll. Guess what, you can't crit fail skill checks so you only need a roll of 2 to make the check.

If the Caster is a PC, pray he is not Tippy. Or knows what Tippy does, was or will be.

The best way to "defeat" a caster is never to pick a fight with them in the first place. Pick your battles as they say. By which I mean, pick to never fight them. After all, if you never fight a caster you never have to lose to one.

Casting has a few weaknesses. Most spells require verbal and somatic components. Grappling AND gagging a caster is the best solution. If they have a spellbook, take it from them. Incidentally, this means that the hardest casters to fight are Charisma-based spontaneous casters. A Prepared-caster like a Wizard is going to fall into one of three situations: Totally kicking your butt, totally screwing up, or acting like a mediocre Sorcerer.

A Sorcerer or a Bard? Entirely possible they have back-up supporting them because of their likable personalities. Additionally, their magic playstyle makes them play more tactically than a Wizard or Cleric, and they can apply meta-magic as they need it. The BAD news is that they can still cast spells because of this. The GOOD news is that a Silent Still anything is using up higher spell slots. Not only does this reduce their immediate versatality, it also means that they are blocked off from their two highest spell levels. Better yet, Bards for example CANNOT cast while gagged.

Spell-Resistance and Will boosting things are definitely stuff you want. It will NOT stop a creative caster, but it will buy you some time, and will frustrate and confound those who don't know how you're equipped. Considering how a sufficiently high caster is all but guaranteed to go first, surviving that first attack is definitely a requirement.

Also, having a weapon of some kind is probably a good start.

[Renen]

Nice necro :D