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fencepainter
2014-01-18, 03:55 PM
How do we know, from the rules, which elementals can be summoned with Summon Nature's Ally spells?

We know that at SNA levels II, IV, V, VI, VII, and IX, a druid can summon elementals of sizes small, medium, large, huge, greater, and elder, respectively.

My question really is "What does '(any)' mean?"

Many people believe that what is meant by "any" is any of the following: Air Elemental, Earth Elemental, Fire Elemental, or Water Elemental. I would certainly not object to this as a rule, but I'm not able to determine that that is the rule. With one way of thinking, I can make the argument that it is only the traditional four elementals that a druid can summon under the rubric "Elemental, X-size (any)", because, if it weren't, other elemental creatures, like Thoqqua, would not have to appear on the SNA list. (Though, admittedly, druids have access to the Thoqqua at SNAIII rather than SNAIV this way.) And, elementals like the Storm Elemental from the Monster Manual III, are specifically added to the SNA list, suggesting that it was never intended that "any" might have a narrower interpretation than the generic meaning of the word. (Though, again, the level at which the druid would have access to a Stor Elemental based on size is slightly different than for other elementals, which might account for the separate listing.)

Druids are certainly powerful enough and don't need any more help. But, I'm having a tough time making the case here that "any" means anything other than, well, "any". The fact that the term is in parentheses suggests that the designation refers to "any" sub-type. Under this interpretation, SNA spells would be able to summon any kind of elemental of the appropriate size, regardless of sub-type or monster name.

What do you think?

I also wonder about the ability of the spell to summon, say, a more advanced sized Thoqqua with SNA IV.

ZamielVanWeber
2014-01-18, 03:59 PM
Elemental here refers to the monster entry in MM! (which is "Elemental"); by RAI it is Earth/Air/Fire/Water (by RAW you could pick up any monster called Elemental, X that has the 6 size groupings and is not specifically added by its own thing). A Dragon Magazine added the Paraelementals.

fencepainter
2014-01-18, 04:11 PM
Elemental here refers to the monster entry. By RAI it is Earth/Air/Fire/Water. A Dragon Magazine added the Paraelements. MM3 put storm in its own section.

Thanks. This is helpful. What tells you that the word "Elemental" refers to the monster entry and not the creature type? Don't mistake me, I think that is a fair argument to make this case, as all the other designations seem to apply to monster entries.

I also agree, as I mentioned above, that the Storm Elemental is a nice example of an elemental published in the rules that suggests that "Elemental, X-size (any)" does not apply to all elementals. But, it is also the case that Storm Elementals are, by the RAW, summoned according to a slightly different framework than other elementals.

As you've said, you appear to be relying on RAI. Even so, I like your 'reference to the entry' interpretation. Thanks again.

EDIT: I have to agree with you even more, upon reflection. It seems unreasonable to have the abundance of the SNA lists referring to creature entries and only the "elemental" designation referring to a creature type. I would say your interpretation is RAW and not RAI. I believe my problem is solved. Thanks so much.

eggynack
2014-01-18, 04:21 PM
Thanks. This is helpful. What tells you that the word "Elemental" refers to the monster entry and not the creature type?
Pretty much nothing outside of some somewhat feasible logic. One of the best chunks of reasoning is the existence of thoqquas, which is an elemental that's listed separately in the summoning list, and exists in a separate book. The storm elemental thing is also a factor, specifically as a monster with the word "elemental" in its name that needs to be listed separately. Anyway, it's a pretty ambiguous situation, but the header based solution is a reasonable one.