How do you think Belkar will die?

[Auburn Bright]

I've seen a few theories thrown around regarding Belkar's prophesy, but I've never seen an entire thread for it. It's a pretty interesting topic, especially since Belkar's becoming more sympathetic. What would be the best send-off for the character, if the prophecy is literal?

My thoughts are that his newfound caring-for-other-creatures will culminate in a heroic sacrifice. It might be a little too cliche for Rich's style, but I think it would be interesting if his "fake" character development tied into the prophecy.

My real thought is that he sacrifices himself in such a way that he's bumped up to Chaotic Good and pals around with Shojo in the afterlife, but that's getting into "horrible fix fic" territory. :smalltongue:

[martianmister]

Yes.

/thread

[Jay R]

"Soon"......

[Koo Rehtorb]

Belkar uncovers some insidious plot of Durkula. Durkula murders him for it so he can't warn the others. Party shrugs and goes "Well Belkar had it coming." and carries on, blissfully unaware.

[Ron Miel]

Belkar will die ...

alone and unloved (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0128.html)

[ChristianSt]

"Soon"......

Do you mean "Soon" or do you mean "soon"? :smalltongue:

Because in the first case I would really like to hear how you think that will happen.

[Coldwind]

Probably by Durkon, afterwards he will turn into a vampire. Then, he will hit the sunlight somehow and he will turn into dust and totally gone...

... if he wasn't a god of war :smalltongue:

[Haar]

Yes.

/thread

The question had a "How" attached to the front of it.


"Soon"......

"How", not "When". Unless you think Soon the Paladin will somehow kill Belkar in a confusing PLOT TWIST!!!!

And I might be missing a joke of some sort with those whited-out dots

I think Belkar is going to die near the very end of the conflict with Xykon. His "fake" character development is going to lead to "real" character development (I think it already has to a degree) and Belkar is either going to peel off the Evil status and die heroically in the final battle, or is going to have some kind of self-righteous enlightenment to act as Miko did, but directed toward Durkon. And he will fail and die.

[Shale]

Killed by Durkon after he insists too loudly on staking and resurrecting him.

[Reathin]

My money's on something that proves instrumental to taking down Xykon, but not the actual final blow (which I'm hoping will fall to Roy). Breaking his phylactery perhaps. I also get the impression that it will somehow tie into his character growth and involve the phrase "sexy shoeless god of war" somehow. I get the feeling the final fight will be lacking a certain something if the Order is down a member, so I don't think he'll be dead before then.

[Sylthia]

Do we have more than the 8-10 days it will take them to get to the next gate to work with?

[Tiiba]

In a way that nobody has come even remotely close to predicting, but is so obvious in retrospect that everyone pretends they suspected all along.

[mindsword]

A noble sacrifice may be cliché, but at the same point it would be fitting. My personal thought is phylactery into a volcano.

kidding, kidding.

Can't be the only one to see the similarities between the Order of the Stick and the Order of the Scribble. In the Scribble, the dwarf dies facing the Snarl. Thus, Belkar may die to seal the rift. Soul destroying monstrosity is possibly a good ending when you have a character who deserves Hell as badly as Belkar did (until very recently and even then...).

Of course, with our new knowledge of the rift, this may not be correct. I suspect that he didn't actually die in the Rift. If there is another opening to the world at that rift, then when they sealed the Rift he might have just been stuck on the other side. "Belkar dying may be defined as his spirit being trapped away from the mortal plane." - Slight misquote of the Oracle http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html

Rereading this, I suspect V's death will somehow be caused by Belkar.

[BeerMug Paladin]

How? Probably from blood loss.

[Trillium]

I guess he is killed by Vampire Durkon, one way or another. He can be either assassinated in his sleep (for proposing to re-kill Durkon. twice.) or die saving his friends (or even random people, indeed earning him Chaotic Good afterlife) from rampaging Durkula.

[oppyu]

not-Durkon: Mwahahahaha, my plan to infiltrate the Order is working! The moment this world-ending thing is over, I'm running away from this joint and feeding like a real vampire should, none of this 'eat a little and then restoration' crap.

Belkar: I knew it! not-Durkon, prepare to meet your doom!

not-Durkon: Hold Person. Just so you know, after I kill you the cat is next. You're Evil, I'm sure you understand.

Certain Members of this Forum: We told you people he was evil!

[Living Oxymoron]

If what some say about his death being definitive is true, then I think that Durkon will disintegrate him.

[Seerow]

If what some say about his death being definitive is true, then I think that Durkon will disintegrate him.

I don't think Durkon can cast Disintegrate. And there are methods to resurrect a Disintegrated person.


But yeah, with Belkar's recent turnaround and general increase in usefulness, I can't imagine Roy actively choosing to not try to resurrect him. So I'm guessing his death will be anything but mundane. I'm expecting something involving the rift myself. Or possibly some weird property of Xykon's astral fortress (I can't imagine that getting introduced and the Order not ending up there for a final dungeon crawl. And I can just imagine Xykon having a soul-stealing trap or something along those lines that renders someone dying there incapable of being rezzed).

[Kruploy]

Mr. Scruffy will trigger an insanity trap and kill an injured Belkar.

Belkar won't fight back because he learned to love at last.

Mr. Scruffy will snap out just as Belkar is dying and meow in sorrow.

The meowing will attract a passing monster who will eat both the cat and the master.

The End.

[Vinyadan]

A pineapple to the head. Bang!

[Jay R]

I didn't predict that Durkon would be killed by a vampire.
I didn't predict that Roy would be killed by a fall from a dead dragon.
I didn't predict that Girard would be killed by the familicide spell.
I didn't predict that Crystal would be killed in the bathroom.
I didn't predict that Nale would be killed by Tarquin.
I didn't predict that Z'zdtri would be killed by Durkon.
I didn't predict that Evisceratus would be killed by Mr. Scruffy.

I have no business trying to predict how Belkar will die.

I'm am prepared to read with interest any theories about Belkar's death from anybody who did predict all of the above.

[Kish]

Girard died years before the Familicide spell.

[Rakoa]

I didn't predict that Girard would be killed by the familicide spell.

Good thing that never happened. :smallwink:

[Socksy]

Several years later, deep underwater.

He gets one of those you-don't-need-to-breathe magic items for some reason - maybe the last gate is underwater, or surrounded by dense gases or some other unbreathable substance.

/wishful thinking

[Living Oxymoron]

I don't think Durkon can cast Disintegrate. And there are methods to resurrect a Disintegrated person.

The living Durkon couldn't. The vampire has access to the Destruction Domain, which includes Disintegrate among its spells.

And I remember The Giant speaking about how much he dislikes spells like True Ressurection. Remember that the mother black dragon couldn't revive her son.

[grathungar]

I think Belkar's 'death' will be something less 'dead' and something more 'character transitioning'
Like the Belkar we know has been changing more and more lately, and soon the evil Belkar we first met will be no more.

I also expect he'll have an amazing birthday party with some AWESOME cake.

[Vinyadan]

The living Durkon couldn't. The vampire has access to the Destruction Domain, which includes Disintegrate among its spells.

And I remember The Giant speaking about how much he dislikes spells like True Ressurection. Remember that the mother black dragon couldn't revive her son.

There's also the Destruction spell, which Durkon should be able to cast.

[Living Oxymoron]

There's also the Destruction spell, which Durkon should be able to cast.

I didn't remember he could cast that spell, but you're right.

[JDMSJR]

I think it will be in the last or next to the last battle against Xykon and Redcloak and set the stage for Roy to destroy Xykon. From the Order's perspective it will look like a heroic sacrifice, but to Belkar it will look like he is doing it to make sure Mr. Scruffy survives

[Jay R]

Girard died years before the Familicide spell.

See? I told you I couldn't predict how people died.

[runeghost]

"Soon"......

I thought Soon's ghost couldn't stay on the Material Plane after the gem sealing the Azure City rift was destroyed? (Sorry, I couldn't resist. :smallbiggrin:)

[martianmister]

The question had a "How" attached to the front of it.

OP changed it after my post.

[Seward]

My theory? Both Elan's "happy ending" and Belkar's "death" happened in the illusion, and the future is open to anything.

That Oracle really, really stretched on some of his other predictions for the Order, and especially for Belkar. While not inaccurate, they lead you to the wrong conclusion. Indeed, his BS is precisely WHY Belkar stabbed him and triggered his Mark.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html

[Kish]

The prophecy the Oracle made for Belkar was fulfilled by Belkar stabbing the Oracle with his daggers, as literally as anyone could hope for.

Lots of people equate "the Oracle is capable of trolling and trolled Belkar for a strip" with "the Oracle's prophecies are misleading." That's not a good equivalency.

[Seward]

I disagree. His answer was "yes" which should mean that Belkar got to kill all of them.

He only got to kill the Oracle, aside from his BS rationalizations on the order of butterfly wings causing hurricanes.

Misleading.

Belkar died, and died permanently in the dream image. They lived years in that image, and Elan got his happy ending, until Elan finally realized that his happy ending was stupid and impossible. Had Elan not showed unusual perceptiveness, they would have spent the rest of their lives (till the Linear Guild found them) in that illusion.

I don't see how that's any different from how Belkar or V's prophecies turned out. Or for that matter how he parsed the words of Roy's question, although granted Roy made it easy for him to screw Roy over on the interpretation.

[Kish]

I disagree. His answer was "yes" which should mean that Belkar got to kill all of them.

...if Belkar had asked a different question.

You can disagree that "or" is not "and" if you like, but it won't serve you well reading any English sentence.

[Shale]

Belkar specifically asked if he would kill any of the people he listed. So yeah, that was straightforward as all hell.

[dps]

I'll go with the longshot and say, "chokes to death on a ham sandwich". :smallbiggrin:

[Jasdoif]

I'm going to go with...being turned to stone, and events occur that prevent Belkar-statue from being reachable, so no one can cure his condition. I guess that technically isn't dying, but the Oracle's various hints that imply Belkar's death make me suspect he may not actually die. (Or did I miss the Oracle explicitly saying "Belkar will die" somewhere?)

[LuisDantas]

I don't see Belkar as salvageable, so my answer to the OP's question is "certainly not soon enough".

[ImperatorV]

He will die fighting Trigak.

[Skorj]

I have a different take on this:

I think he'll make a heroic sacrifice, but not die. Instead, in the final battle, he'll jump into the rift, taking someone important with him. Take his last breath on this world and whatnot. What his fate will be may be left a mystery.

[Kish]

I do not believe that all the emphasis on "there's a world inside the rifts" will come to, "Neither the readers nor the characters will ever learn what's up with that, to preserve the mystery of Belkar's fate."

[Rogar Demonblud]

An eagle will grab a turtle (probably the one from the Orc Island, conservation of detail and all that), look for a rock to drop it on to crack the shell and pick Belkar's head by mistake.

[Tiiba]

An eagle will grab a turtle (probably the one from the Orc Island, conservation of detail and all that), look for a rock to drop it on to crack the shell and pick Belkar's head by mistake.

Praise Om, Brutha.

[Sarin]

Occasional lurker, now first time poster reporting with his idea :D


I am not fully versed in DnD rules (most of what I know comes from playing Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale series) but...there are very powerful spells that are sensitive to alignment. Belkar's CE saved him once before in such case.

So I figure he'll try to tank something aimed at his teammate, thinking his alignment will protect him, Finger of Death or something like that, or whatever will kill him really, definitely dead.

Fun thing will be, due to his recent scheme to "show that he plays the game", he'll actually become CN, without even realizing it. And since this will be seen as heroic sacrifice by others, he might even get bumped up to CG.

This will of course have more facets. I expect that it will be Xykon or Redcloak casting it, affirming him as a real big villain instead of comic relief. It might even serve as a way to destroy Xykon's phylactery. And we'll get a funny scene with Belkar in afterlife, showing the celestial bureaucracy just how evil he can be :D

[Ghost Nappa]

The question is not how, for it has already been determined.
The question is why.

/cryptic musings

[Bulldog Psion]

How will Belkar die?

His heart will stop beating, and thus the blood in his veins will come to a standstill.

Deprived of oxygen, his brain will start to malfunction and shut down, with cells dying in droves. This will render him unconscious in a few seconds, causing his body to collapse. Various other organs start to malfunction also.

Brain death occurs, his body gradually cools. Without active defenses, it starts to be attacked by opportunistic microorganisms and insects, beginning the process known as "decay."

His spirit flits off to the appropriate afterlife.

There. I called it. :smallbiggrin:

[Kish]

I am surprised by your confidence that Belkar's body will be relatively intact at the time of his death.

[Ghost Nappa]

I am surprised by your confidence that Belkar's body will be relatively intact at the time of his death.

Agreed.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Terminator-Thumbs-Up-as-he-Melts.gif

[happyman]

I don't think the oracle actually said "Belkar will die within the next year and never be raised." It would be awfully nice if he had. It's left just barely enough wiggle room to keep the arguments going. Mind, on the internet, it doesn't take much wiggle room to keep an argument going.

Thing is, I'm not certain there isn't any wiggle room left either. The oracle could have been less ambiguous if he had really wanted to.

On the other hand, I definitely don't count the illusion as the fulfillment of anybody's prophecy. The Oracle's predictions have been fulfilled in a not only literal meaning, but even a natural meaning, of the words in all the cases. Perhaps not what the people thought they were hearing, but I don't see any real nitpicking in the various fulfillments. The only case of really stretching it is when the oracle trolled Belkar, but the actual fulfillment was about as natural as they come.

[Jay R]

I don't think the oracle actually said "Belkar will die within the next year and never be raised."

"Belkar will draw his last breath - ever - before the end of the year. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html)"

That does not allow for being raised.

[captpike]

"Belkar will draw his last breath - ever - before the end of the year. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html)"

That does not allow for being raised.

it does with time travel

[Dammann]

Do vampires breath?

[Kish]

Do vampires breath?
No, but they're in the world.

[AgentofHellfire]

...if Belkar had asked a different question.

You can disagree that "or" is not "and" if you like, but it won't serve you well reading any English sentence.

And yet the Oracle was well aware that wasn't what Belkar meant, which means the Oracle was basically abusing a loophole in that same way the IFCC were when they pulled Vaarsuvius from the mortal plane (and, for that matter, the same way Tarquin got everyone to think he knew about Girard Draketooth when he only knew Orrin) in this very arc.

So if you think the IFCC and Tarquin are honest, then yes, so is the Oracle.

[Kish]

And yet the Oracle was well aware that wasn't what Belkar meant,
Excuse me? You're claiming that in an exchange that went, "Do I get to cause the death of any of the following: Miko, Miko's stupid horse, Roy, Vaarsuvius, or you?" "Yes." "Sweet! Which one?" both of the participants understood the question to actually be, "Do I get to kill all of the following," with "Which one?" just being a sudden break into total incoherence?

[AgentofHellfire]

Excuse me? You're claiming that in an exchange that went, "Do I get to cause the death of any of the following: Miko, Miko's stupid horse, Roy, Vaarsuvius, or you?" "Yes." "Sweet! Which one?" both of the participants understood the question to actually be, "Do I get to kill all of the following," with "Which one?" just being a sudden break into total incoherence?

And yet Correction, yes I do, because when Belkar got angry at the Oracle because, in his view, his prophecy didn't happen, the Oracle didn't say "Yes, it will. You'll get to kill one of those guys definitely." The Oracle instead launched into an elaborate explanation about how he did get to kill Roy, Miko, and Miko's horse. Why would he have needed to do that if it wasn't the expectation that Belkar would've?

And that's not getting into, say, Durkon's prophecy, which is obviously quite a bit misleading, and Durkon was mislead by strongly.

[Kish]

I'll take that non-sequitur as a "Yes," you are, in fact, claiming that "Which one?" was a sudden demonstration of Tourette's.

[Jay R]

[S] The Oracle instead launched into an elaborate explanation about how he did get to kill Roy, Miko, and Miko's horse. Why would he have needed to do that if it wasn't the expectation that Belkar would've?

No he didn't ever try to maintain that Belkar got to kill Roy, Miko, and Miko's horse. He made three separate attempts to claim that Belkar had killed one of them.

First he tried to give Belkar a reason to believe that he caused the death of Roy - just Roy, and he spent eight panels trying. But that lame attempt failed, when Belkar said, "That doesn't count." So the Oracle said, "OK, OK, fine. How about this one then," trying a different argument, . He spent three panels trying to convince Belkar that he'd he had caused Miko's death. When Belkar after admitting the first one had failedsaid, "That's even dumber than the first one," the oracle started over again, with a third attempt to convince Belkar he'd killed one of them - this time, Miko's horse.

Why was he doing this? That became clear a few panels later, when Belkar finally made the prophecy come true, by killing the Oracle. The Oracle was trying to save his own life, with ever increasing levels of desperation.

When Belkar stabbed him , the Oracle said, "Yeah, I wasn't really buying those theories either... Worth a shot, though."

Note: He said "those theories", not "that theory". He tried three times to convince Belkar that the prophecy was already fulfilled, by killing Roy alone, or Miko alone, or the horse alone,, because he knew Belkar could fulfill it right then, by killing the Oracle alone.

If he had had to prove that Belkar had killed them all, then he'd have to show that Belkar had killed the Oracle as well, which was clearly not possible.

[SlashDash]

In a way that nobody has come even remotely close to predicting, but is so obvious in retrospect that everyone pretends they suspected all along.

This times 1000


The living Durkon couldn't. The vampire has access to the Destruction Domain, which includes Disintegrate among its spells.

And I remember The Giant speaking about how much he dislikes spells like True Ressurection. Remember that the mother black dragon couldn't revive her son.
Or that Laurin disintegrated Nale solely for the purpose of blocking his return.
Whatever the RAW state, it's clear in OotS that disintegrate is final death.





Now for random fun time guessing?
I'm having a hard time seeing Belkar doing the heroic sacrifice simply because of Mr.Scruffy. He wouldn't let himself get killed with no one to take care of him, ergo I'm thinking it's most likely the other way around.

Mr.Scruffy will die first and Belkar will die extracting revenge. His perfect world in the illusion showed him, Shojo and Mr.Scruffy, so I'm guessing the afterlife would show all 3 together.

[Arcane_Secrets]

This times 1000


Or that Laurin disintegrated Nale solely for the purpose of blocking his return.
Whatever the RAW state, it's clear in OotS that disintegrate is final death.





Now for random fun time guessing?
I'm having a hard time seeing Belkar doing the heroic sacrifice simply because of Mr.Scruffy. He wouldn't let himself get killed with no one to take care of him, ergo I'm thinking it's most likely the other way around.

Mr.Scruffy will die first and Belkar will die extracting revenge. His perfect world in the illusion showed him, Shojo and Mr.Scruffy, so I'm guessing the afterlife would show all 3 together.

Do you think that Belkar's actually good enough to get a good afterlife, instead of faking it really well since his character development hallucinations? He's really got a lot to answer for.

[Aolbain]

Bozzok will do him in. Don't ask me how and when, but it will be him.

[Angralad]

This is fun. I'm going with two interpretations, please feel free not to take either seriously.

Interpretation 1:

According to the Oracle Belkar will draw his last breath - ever - before the end of the year. To me this could mean that he gets turned into an undead creature, possibly a Vampire, which technically do not need to breathe. However the Oracle did say he wasn't "long for this world" (and Vamps are in the world, as someone pointed out). But that wasn't in the green "Oracular Trance Thingie" speech, so "long for this world" could be just a figure of speech. How many other ways are there of "not breathing but still be around to be useful to the party"? Hmm...

Interpretation #2

This is more about how I would like him to go. So I'll call, just because I think it would be cool, Belkar will fight Red Cloak, one on one. It will be this drawn out epic fight in which Belkar is taking a lot of damage, not going well for him at all, Red Cloak is too strong. But before his last hit point is out Belkar will manage to rip the cloak off the Goblin (is this possible? I can't remember if it's protected by any spells), stab his other eye out in an epic moment of hilariously awesome and them, in the coup-de-grace, stab him in the heart... through the phylactery causing a huge explosion that will disintegrate his body.

Of course, how his dagger will get through the phylactery when O-Chul couldn't (though used a piece of tube(?), not a magic item) I have no idea. But I like this one.

Now mind you, this isn't a heroic sacrifice, this is Belkar being pissed off at Red Cloak and killing him; the phylactery getting destroyed is pure coincidence as NO ONE knows Red Cloak has it. He's being useful by being his normal, sexy, shoeless god of war, self.

(**** just remember Red Cloak hid the phylactery, he's no longer wearing it. Crap).

Oh well, I guess my tree has convulsed long enough for a day.

Cheers!

[nabcif]

Interpretation #2

This is more about how I would like him to go. So I'll call, just because I think it would be cool, Belkar will fight Red Cloak, one on one. It will be this drawn out epic fight in which Belkar is taking a lot of damage, not going well for him at all, Red Cloak is too strong. But before his last hit point is out Belkar will manage to rip the cloak off the Goblin (is this possible? I can't remember if it's protected by any spells), stab his other eye out in an epic moment of hilariously awesome and them, in the coup-de-grace, stab him in the heart... through the phylactery causing a huge explosion that will disintegrate his body.

Of course, how his dagger will get through the phylactery when O-Chul couldn't (though used a piece of tube(?), not a magic item) I have no idea. But I like this one.


Because he'll be using Tarquin's former dagger (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0934.html) (p2 panel 8), of course.



(**** just remember Red Cloak hid the phylactery, he's no longer wearing it. Crap).


That's a bit more of a problem for your theory, yes.

[Jay R]

Do vampires breath?

it does with time travel

I have a different take on this:
I think he'll make a heroic sacrifice, but not die. Instead, in the final battle, he'll jump into the rift, taking someone important with him. Take his last breath on this world and whatnot. What his fate will be may be left a mystery.

This is fun. I'm going with two interpretations, please feel free not to take either seriously.

Interpretation 1:

According to the Oracle Belkar will draw his last breath - ever - before the end of the year. To me this could mean that he gets turned into an undead creature, possibly a Vampire, which technically do not need to breathe. However the Oracle did say he wasn't "long for this world" (and Vamps are in the world, as someone pointed out). But that wasn't in the green "Oracular Trance Thingie" speech, so "long for this world" could be just a figure of speech. How many other ways are there of "not breathing but still be around to be useful to the party"? Hmm...

Here we have several excellent methods that Rich could use to cleverly circumvent the clear intent of the author.

[Ghost Nappa]

Belkar will be teleported into the past and be the killer of the Eastern Pantheon. The Snarl may or may not be there when he does so.

Thus, his LAST breath - chronologically - will be THIS year, but he won't die and will be still a functioning character.

[Shale]

The final Gate is destroyed. The Order and Team Evil alike are thrown into the world beyond the Rifts, there to meet the legendary destroyer of all, the beast that killed pantheons and ended a world:

:belkar: "Okay, kids. This is where it gets complicated."

[Sloanzilla]

not the answer to the question, but I think the last Belkar panel will be one indicating that he just barely qualified for the Chaotic Neutral afterlife.

I'm hoping to see enough continued growth (or fake growth, but honestly at a certain point there's an overlap there) to where even Roy feels sad by his departure.

[Grogmir]

Some how, it'll be V that kills the Belkstar (Just my take on the Oracles' "As for the Elf" line. With it having a very important role in the final take down of Team Evil.

[Gift Jeraff]

How will Belkar die? Peacefully and willingly. Right before he sacrifices himself to save the multiverse, he will turn to the audience and tell the Belkar haters, "I forgive you."

[DeliaP]

Roy kills Belkar. Not because Belkar is evil, though.

I had this theory when it looked like Belkar was maybe going to fall to Malack. Basically, Roy took responsibility for Belkar a long while ago. At least as far back as doing the deal with Shojo.

But his conversation with Haley after he got raised always struck me as kind of abdicating his moral responsibility: keep Belkar on a leash and pointed in the right direction and just let the clock run out.... trusting that Belkar is fated to die, and not even trying to do anything about it.

So it struck me that if Belkar was dominated by Malack and made to fight against the OotS, there would be a certain cosmic justice if Roy was forced to be the one to kill Belkar. Thus forcing Roy to take full responsibility for his decision, and actually carry it out himself, instead of Roy just hoping to get away with letting it happen and not trying to stop it.

[Having said that, I would like to re-iterate the following: I predict Durkula will never vamp Belkar. Not going to happen.]

[runeghost]

Do you think that Belkar's actually good enough to get a good afterlife, instead of faking it really well since his character development hallucinations? He's really got a lot to answer for.

Idk... I doubt he'd make it past any bureaucratic devas, but otoh, whatever his position on the Good-Evil axis, Belkar is Chaotic through and through. I can see some CG afterlife guardian/judge going, "Eh, died trying to save the world and your pet cat - that's good enough for us!"

[Carl]

IMO Durkon's going to turn on them the instant Xykon and co are down, Belkar who's been carrying on about him all along is the only one not surprised when this happens and pulls a Heroic Sacrifice stopping Durkon from wiping out the party in the surprise round.

[halfeye]

Yes.

/thread
No.

I don't know how it will happen, but I think all of the bits of prophesy will be fulfilled, but Belkar will survive, out of the world, and not breathing, but surviving. I do think there's a good chance that will be by actually turning out to be a god of war.

[Angralad]

... I can see some CG afterlife guardian/judge going, "Eh, died trying to save the world and your pet cat - that's good enough for us!"

That would be extremely disappointing to the IFCC, I bet they have a nice warm place of honor waiting for Belkar, some position in their organization where his skill-set will come in handy.

Having said that, I do agree his character development might be changing his alignment a bit at a time. He's been "faking it" for a while but in the process it's begun to rub off.


...I do think there's a good chance that will be by actually turning out to be a god of war.

I'm confused. I though he already was a sexy, shoeless, god of war. :smallsmile: This: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0611.html

[halfeye]

I'm confused. I though he already was a sexy, shoeless, god of war. :smallsmile:
That's what I said.

When I said that it will turn out that he is a god of war, I mean that it will be revealed that he always was a god of war.

[blunk]

Belt sander.

[SlashDash]

Do you think that Belkar's actually good enough to get a good afterlife, instead of faking it really well since his character development hallucinations? He's really got a lot to answer for.
I think that's what he *thinks* he'll get. Doesn't mean he'll actually get it.
He will probably give a few words about expecting too see Mr.Scruffy again or something like that.

It's possible we'll have a rehash of the conversation between Soon and Miko with Shojo and Belkar.

[Quartz]

Whatever happens, there will be a joke attached.

My vote is that he gets turned into a treant, possibly to better fight Durkon.

[Lucky 13]

personally, i dont think he will die. i think a certain event will trigger something and we find out they are the eastern gods cursed by the snarl in a way that made them lose their godly powers and get reincarnated. Belkar=Ares, Roy= Zeus, Haley=Artemis, etc. i say this because 1. i dont want belkar to die..he's awesome. 2. i want to see the phrase "i am a sexy shoeless god of war" work out that way.

[Jay R]

personally, i dont think he will die. i think a certain event will trigger something and we find out they are the eastern gods cursed by the snarl in a way that made them lose their godly powers and get reincarnated. Belkar=Ares, Roy= Zeus, Haley=Artemis, etc. i say this because 1. i dont want belkar to die..he's awesome. 2. i want to see the phrase "i am a sexy shoeless god of war" work out that way.

First of all, no, Haley is not the avatar of the goddess of virginity. Just ... no.

Secondly, I don't expect that Rich will subvert the clear purpose of the prophecy.

But mostly, I really don't want to see one of the greatest lines of the strip turned into something far less interesting than the delightful boast it was.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Artemis isn't the Goddess of Virginity. She's the crone aspect of the triune goddess, and thus if anything is a death deity. Interestingly, her Mother/Nymph aspect is Callisto of the bear cult, who as we all know was skinned alive and the bear pelt staked out in the stars over the North Pole.

[halfeye]

But mostly, I really don't want to see one of the greatest lines of the strip turned into something far less interesting than the delightful boast it was.
You prefer lies to the truth? :smallconfused: :smalleek: :smallannoyed:

[wumpus]

No.

I don't know how it will happen, but I think all of the bits of prophesy will be fulfilled, but Belkar will survive, out of the world, and not breathing, but surviving. I do think there's a good chance that will be by actually turning out to be a god of war.

While I really like this idea, I suspect that Rich will completely set it up: vamp him, toss him in the riftworld, seal him up, and then kill him off (away from any meddling clerics).

I just can't see Rich letting Belkar live, however he twists the prophesy. The best Belkar can hope for is being sent to the lower plane's battleground, on his quest to become the "sexy shoeless god of war".

[Aquillion]

IMO Durkon's going to turn on them the instant Xykon and co are downWhy?

What does he stand to gain from this? Being a Vampire doesn't make him chaotic; he's not going to murder people just for the sake of murdering them. (Nor does it make him immediately forget who his friends and enemies are, as he pointed out.) It's clear that something about him has changed (he was much more willing to kill the dark elf out of hand than, in all likeliness, he would have been before), but he's not going to turn on old friends for no reason whatsoever.

I could see him killing Belkar (who he always seems to have disliked), but I can't see him attacking the rest of the order unless he has a strong reason to do so.

[Kish]

You prefer lies to the truth? :smallconfused: :smalleek: :smallannoyed:
I would say exquisitely framed, if it took longer than two seconds to realize the framing makes no sense at all. Try this one:

You, halfeye, prefer characters who can only speak in direct, literal statements to ones who are capable of using metaphors and speaking figuratively--in the fiction you read?

[halfeye]

I would say exquisitely framed, if it took longer than two seconds to realize the framing makes no sense at all. Try this one:

You, halfeye, prefer characters who can only speak in direct, literal statements to ones who are capable of using metaphors and speaking figuratively--in the fiction you read?
I don't like boasting, and the phrase "delightful boast" struck me as bizzare.

[Kish]

I don't think the post containing a phrase that struck you as bizarre is a good enough reason to make a ridiculous strawman of the post.

(Never mind that I am a loss for what would be.)

[Jay R]

You prefer lies to the truth? :smallconfused: :smalleek: :smallannoyed:

No, of course not. I prefer characters in stories to act in character.

In general, I prefer knitting to murdering, but if Belkar started sitting down and knitting, I believe that that would be a poor story.

I prefer unselfish service to self-centered tyranny, but if Tarquin started to behave with unselfish service, I believe that would be a poor story.

I prefer cooperation to hidden rivalries and betrayal, but if Recloak suddenly starts cooperating fully with Xykon, I believe that would be a poor story.

I prefer good to evil, but if Sabine starts being good, I believe that would be a poor story.


You simply cannot take a statement about how a story should run as a statement of morality.

[Lucky 13]

[QUOTE=Jay R;16947903]First of all, no, Haley is not the avatar of the goddess of virginity. Just ... no.
QUOTE]

that was just an example because artemis is also the goddes of the hunt and was deadly with a bow and arrow.

[UristMcRandom]

Very likely I'm missing something, but has anyone:

A. Confirmed that Shojo is CG and not either a neutral or even (unlikely as it may be) evil alignment? Last I check he just said he's "...not even lawful", not that he's "Chaotic Good".

B. Considered that Belkar may die a perfectly normal death, and rather than being unable to be raised, he simply chooses to not be raised (much like Shojo after Miko killed him)?

[oppyu]

Very likely I'm missing something, but has anyone:

A. Confirmed that Shojo is CG and not either a neutral or even (unlikely as it may be) evil alignment? Last I check he just said he's "...not even lawful", not that he's "Chaotic Good".

B. Considered that Belkar may die a perfectly normal death, and rather than being unable to be raised, he simply chooses to not be raised (much like Shojo after Miko killed him)?
I think the Giant said something to the effect that Shojo was Good (don't quote me on that, the Index of the Giant's Comments is so large it literally lagged my computer when I tried to go through it), and he's considered in-universe to be Chaotic Good. Well, Belkar said he was Good, and nobody leaped in to deny it. At the very least, he's as close as proven CG as you can get without having the author go through and explicitly state everyone's alignment out of comic.

As for Belkar choosing not to be raised, maybe. Although I'm not certain what his motives would be for turning down a free resurrection. Maybe as a 'screw you' to not-Durkon?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

For A., this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15385275#post15385275) quote says that Shojo's government was CG, which strongly implies that he himself was CG.

As far as B is concerned, I tend to be against the resurrection theory, as that violates the idea of "draw his last breath before the end of the year", so I like your idea. However, I don't think Belkar has really shown an extreme dislike for his situation that would justify accepting death, whereas Shojo knew that once he was resurrected he would be put on trial for treason. Of course, it may be that things will change by the time he dies.

[The Second]

Belkar will die....

At a ripe old age with a kitten on one knee and a grandchild on the other, in the middle of retelling, for the thousandth time, the story of how he rode an allosaurus into battle, thereby saving the friends whom didn't appreciate fully until he faced a second near death experience.

[Link]

IAs for Belkar choosing not to be raised, maybe. Although I'm not certain what his motives would be for turning down a free resurrection. Maybe as a 'screw you' to not-Durkon?

I don't think he can be raised. Unless someone tries to raise him before the end of the year.

[Domino Quartz]

Belkar will die....

At a ripe old age with a kitten on one knee and a grandchild on the other, in the middle of retelling, for the thousandth time, the story of how he rode an allosaurus into battle, thereby saving the friends whom didn't appreciate fully until he faced a second near death experience.

Unless that all somehow manages to happen before the end of this in-comic year, I think you're out of luck.

[Lord Vukodlak]

I imagine he'll die doing something truly heroic having finally become the mask. No longer pretending to be a better person but having actually become one.

However by all outside appearances he'll have died doing something selfish and evil. No one will know he died a hero's death.

Or he'll be turned into an aquatic creature and hurled into another world.

[Amridell]

Well, how powerful is the oracle? Epic-level? Because Girard is. and in This strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0886.html) Belkar dies...but under an illusion. Thus, the oracle could have seen the illusionary dead Belkar and given that as prophecy. So will Belkar even die for real?

[halfeye]

Well, how powerful is the oracle? Epic-level? Because Girard is. and in This strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0886.html) Belkar dies...but under an illusion. Thus, the oracle could have seen the illusionary dead Belkar and given that as prophecy. So will Belkar even die for real?
The Oracle may not be that powerful personally, but he gets his powers from Tiamat, and she's a god, which is above Epic, so yes, he does trump Girard.

[Jay R]

Well, how powerful is the oracle? Epic-level? Because Girard is. and in This strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0886.html) Belkar dies...but under an illusion. Thus, the oracle could have seen the illusionary dead Belkar and given that as prophecy. So will Belkar even die for real?

Yet another clever way that the Giant could subvert the clear intent of the author.

[DeliaP]

Yet another clever way that the Giant could subvert the clear intent of the author.

The author of any story can defy intentions, but only a special author can defy the author themselves! :smallbiggrin:

[Aquillion]

Die? No, no. Obviously it's leading up to this:

http://oi44.tinypic.com/2m43x8h.jpg

[Porthos]

Well, how powerful is the oracle? Epic-level? Because Girard is. and in This strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0886.html) Belkar dies...but under an illusion. Thus, the oracle could have seen the illusionary dead Belkar and given that as prophecy. So will Belkar even die for real?

The Oracle can read the The Order of the Stick books that have yet to be printed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0330.html). So I suspect he knows that Belkar is still alive. :smalltongue:

[Amridell]

The Oracle may not be that powerful personally, but he gets his powers from Tiamat, and she's a god, which is above Epic, so yes, he does trump Girard.

By the same logic, a first level cleric gets his power from his god, which trumps Girard. It seems that the caster's power does matter.

[Lord Vukodlak]

By the same logic, a first level cleric gets his power from his god, which trumps Girard. It seems that the caster's power does matter.
In this case the caster level is irrelevant, The oracle predicted it would be Belkar's last breath ever. He was breathing after the illusion was over so its moot. Also Girards illusion didn't playout in front of the order like a holodeck they stood there drooling and dreamed the whole thing. Seeing the future as it happens does not give you the ability to see whats going on inside someones head.

[blunk]

Die? No, no. Obviously it's leading up to this:

http://oi44.tinypic.com/2m43x8h.jpgNo longer breathing? Check.
Can't savor his next birthday cake? Check.
Shouldn't bother funding his 401K? Check... I think.
Not long for this world? Ummm... into the ocean through the desert rift, then? Check.

You might be on to something.

[Skorj]

Yet another clever way that the Giant could subvert the clear intent of the author.

It's a bit odd to assert that your view of the author's intent is more correct than everyone else's without actually presenting any arguments to that effect. OOTS regularly surprises the reader, that's part of what makes it cool. Sure, sometimes the surprise comes from events playing out exactly as predicted in-comic, but that only works because it's unusual.

[Jay R]

It's a bit odd to assert that your view of the author's intent is more correct than everyone else's without actually presenting any arguments to that effect. OOTS regularly surprises the reader, that's part of what makes it cool. Sure, sometimes the surprise comes from events playing out exactly as predicted in-comic, but that only works because it's unusual.

We'll have to wait and find out whether the author intends for Belkar to die in accordance with the prophecy. You're right that I could be mistaken.

But yes, I do believe that is the author's intention, and yes, I do believe my interpretation is more correct than the people looking for an unconvincing way to subvert the prophecy as no prophecy has been subverted yet.

For one thing, prophecies that lead people astray are written so that the other interpretation is straightforward. The Persian king Croesus consulted the Oracle at Delphi before attacking the Greeks. he was told, ""If you cross the river, a great empire will be destroyed." He crossed, attacked, lost, and his own empire was destroyed. If the prophecy was intended to be subverted, I would expect the interpretation to be in that form, not the weird attempts people have been trying to twist it into.

[RyanKoopa]

I must admit him being killed by Durkon seems most likely to me. I mean the whole guilt about durkon dying (well undying) before him seems like foreshadowing to me. Plus there is the whole cassandra truth on belkar's part. He's the only one who's realized that there is more to Durkula than meets the eye. I'm not sure Durkula has anything planned at the moment, but finding out the ugly truth about the prophecy involving him combined with the outlook being a vampire gives him might cause him to break. Belkar figures it out and confronts Durkula and is killed for it. That's my prediction anyway.

[Aquillion]

We'll have to wait and find out whether the author intends for Belkar to die in accordance with the prophecy. You're right that I could be mistaken.

But yes, I do believe that is the author's intention, and yes, I do believe my interpretation is more correct than the people looking for an unconvincing way to subvert the prophecy as no prophecy has been subverted yet.

For one thing, prophecies that lead people astray are written so that the other interpretation is straightforward. The Persian king Croesus consulted the Oracle at Delphi before attacking the Greeks. he was told, ""If you cross the river, a great empire will be destroyed." He crossed, attacked, lost, and his own empire was destroyed. If the prophecy was intended to be subverted, I would expect the interpretation to be in that form, not the weird attempts people have been trying to twist it into.It's always like that after the fact.

I'm not saying the prophecy will really be subverted (the fish picture is just a running gag), but if Belkar were turned into an undead who spends the rest of his unlife in the rift-world, it would satisfy all the requirements of the various prophecies, and looking back we would say "oh, so it was a cleverly-set-up twist all along!"

[Kish]

Just to say, "Belkar turns into some form that doesn't breathe," "Belkar changes his name and the prophecy stops applying," "Belkar changes sex and the prophecy stops applying," "Belkar becomes a god," "Belkar moves to another dimension," "The prophecy just doesn't come true because Rich wants to make a point about oracles being fundamentally unreliable, or for some other reason related to the fact that I hate prophecies that come true," and "Belkar gets resurrected the next morning, 'cause I didn't bother to read the word ever" are all minutes at most younger, as theories, than, "The Oracle actually meant Belkar will die and stay dead."

That doesn't mean none of them will happen. That does mean none of them will be an Amazing Twist if they happen.

[Aquillion]

Just to say, "Belkar turns into some form that doesn't breathe," "Belkar changes his name and the prophecy stops applying," "Belkar changes sex and the prophecy stops applying," "Belkar becomes a god," "Belkar moves to another dimension," "The prophecy just doesn't come true because Rich wants to make a point about oracles being fundamentally unreliable, or for some other reason related to the fact that I hate prophecies that come true," and "Belkar gets resurrected the next morning, 'cause I didn't bother to read the word ever" are all minutes at most younger, as theories, than, "The Oracle actually meant Belkar will die and stay dead."

That doesn't mean none of them will happen. That does mean none of them will be an Amazing Twist if they happen.I think that that's also partially the result of us being here in the forum; even if there are occasional winks at us, I don't think that the comic's overarching plot is primarily written for us. That is -- if the prophecy was "Belkar will DIE DIE DIE from getting SHARP POINTY OBJECTS IN HIM and will STAY DEAD and will NOT BE RESURRECTED EVER", thirty seconds after the comic went up someone would be in the forums pointing out that that doesn't prevent Clone.

I think that to most readers -- the ones who don't obsessively discuss it here -- the prophecy means what it apparently seems to say at first glance and that's it.

[Sir_Leorik]

Atkins, combined with a strict cardio workout, along with kicking Roy in the shins when Roy's not looking.

...Oh, wait I thought the thread was "How do you think Belkar will diet".

How will Belkar die? Honestly, no clue. Anything I think up is not nearly as outrageous (or cliche-ridden) as what the Giant will come up with, and I don't expect Belkar to die in 2014, so why get all hot and bothered.

Okay, fine, put my 2 cp on "a swarm of Fiendish Dire Fire Ants and a jar of maple syrup". Okay? Are you people happy now? :smalltongue:

[Rogar Demonblud]

For one thing, prophecies that lead people astray are written so that the other interpretation is straightforward. The Persian king Croesus consulted the Oracle at Delphi before attacking the Greeks. he was told, ""If you cross the river, a great empire will be destroyed." He crossed, attacked, lost, and his own empire was destroyed. If the prophecy was intended to be subverted, I would expect the interpretation to be in that form, not the weird attempts people have been trying to twist it into.

*sigh*

Croesus was a Lydian king in Ionia who picked a fight with the Persians. He was burned alive for his temerity, after losing the war and destroying what was left of the Hellenistic realms in Anatolia. Lydia wasn't an empire by any stretch of the imagination, being a largish city-state, so the Delphic Oracle probably said something about destroying a kingdom (which wouldn't apply to Persia, but the whole thing is probably apocryphal anyway).

[martianmister]

http://oi44.tinypic.com/2m43x8h.jpg

Yet another clever way that the Giant could subvert the clear intent of the author NOT.

[Sir_Leorik]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in all these "How will Belkar die?" threads, has there ever been speculation on the Order picking up a new member to replace Belkar after he shuffles off the mortal coil? Given how close we are to the end of the story, there is not much time to spend on fleshing out a new character, so it would have to be an already existing character.

My thought is that a good candidate would either have all of Belkar's main character traits or would be Belkar's polar opposite. So here are my guesses:

If we're going with more of the same, then Belkar's replacement would need to be the comic relief of the team, someone Roy detests and who has a built in fan base. That leaves only one viable candidate: Thog. With the Linear Guild pretty much done for, and Nale no longer around to tell Thog what to do, what better place for Thog to end up, then as the Order's new member? :smalltongue:

Alternatively, the new sixth member would be Belkar's polar opposite: someone either patient or easy-going. That could indicate that either O-Chul or the MitD (or both of them) will be taking Belkar's place in the Order.

All three are also good candidates because The Giant has indicated, in author commentaries and other comments, that he enjoys writing all three characters.

Any thoughts?

[Yora]

Die? No, no. Obviously it's leading up to this:

http://oi44.tinypic.com/2m43x8h.jpg

Yeah, given everything the oracle ever said, I think it is quite obviously that he wouldn't have said "draw his last breath" if he had meant "the character is permanently destroyed".

[Bedinsis]

I don't have any good track record with regards to predictions, but:

At the next time Durkon needs to eat, Belkar doesn't want anyone to go near that Evil creature who isn't really Durkon. After some discussion he volunteers himself, reasoning that "that's what Durkon would have done." And Durkon sucks the very last drop of his blood, killing him, and setting up conflict for future strips.

[Ramien]

According to the lesser known second prophecy of Belkar:
Belkar will die saving Hinjo's life.
One of the bonus pages showed Sangwaan predicting that Belkar was going to save Hinjo's life not just the one time we've seen, but twice. What more ironic death for Belkar than saving a Paladin?

If nothing else, this means we do need Hinjo to show up first before Belkar's truly in trouble again.

[Death Knight of]

[QUOTE=Jay R;16947903]First of all, no, Haley is not the avatar of the goddess of virginity. Just ... no.
QUOTE]

that was just an example because artemis is also the goddes of the hunt and was deadly with a bow and arrow.

im home!

[Death Knight of]

new thing aboot durkon's body possessed by a vamp we call durkula and he has become hi priest o' hel. i think belkar walks in on him and gets bashed in the head (killed)there

[Seto]

Yeah. By Durkula, as others have said. Here's why I'm putting my money on this one :


I've said this before in another thread, but this calls it to mind again : I'd like Belkar to die at the hands of Durkula. It would :
- make Belkar a tragic character (the one important time he was right all along was the one time none of the Good characters listened... karma, destiny, tragic irony etc.)
- make his death a great moment and a turning point in the narrative, and still be intense even though everyone has been expecting him to die for a long time.
- have great plot significance by revealing the evil spirit within Durkon
- give Roy and the others something to mourn and be miserable about because it's all their fault (whereas if Belkar died fighting Xykon they may not be as troubled), which means character development.

This would be a fitting, intense, dramatically appropriate death. Maybe what I'd do. But, true, it's somewhat predictable and Rich Burlew is famous for surprising his readers and going off the beaten track. Let's see :D

P.S. By the way, really great book. It's my favorite so far.

[Kish]

Yeah, given everything the oracle ever said, I think it is quite obviously that he wouldn't have said "draw his last breath" if he had meant "the character is permanently destroyed".
Do you?

So, hypothetically speaking, if the Oracle had wanted to convey that Belkar will die and not come back. What, in your view, would the Oracle have said?

[Aquillion]

Do you?

So, hypothetically speaking, if the Oracle had wanted to convey that Belkar will die and not come back. What, in your view, would the Oracle have said?Well, technically he didn't even use the word 'die', which would have been an obvious start (and I think the fact that he avoided using that word is one of the main reasons there are so many theories, although really that lends itself more to silliness like Belkarfish than anything else.)

I think the strange wording was clearly meant to make us speculate, all else aside.

[Seto]

Well, the Oracle IS known for being a smartass ("Where is Hinjo --> In his throne room") and play on words, so there is solid ground for speculation. For example, if Belkar became undead, it would work out since :
- Undead don't need IRA
- They don't eat birthday cakes
- They don't breathe.

That being said, I think his death will be permanent. I get the feeling that anything else would be perceived as cheap and anticlimactic, after making us wait for years. Besides, two Undead in the Order would be one too many (And the lil' bugger's bad enough already !)

[Domino Quartz]

Well, the Oracle IS known for being a smartass ("Where is Hinjo --> In his throne room") and play on words, so there is solid ground for speculation. For example, if Belkar became undead, it would work out since :
- Undead don't need IRA
- They don't eat birthday cakes
- They don't breathe.


There's also the part where he says that Belkar is "not long for this world." If he were undead, he would still be in this world ("this world" being OotS world, of course).

[Seto]

Oh, right. Well, maybe he'll die by getting thrown through the fourth wall ? :smallbiggrin:

[Ramien]

Well, the Oracle IS known for being a smartass ("Where is Hinjo --> In his throne room") and play on words, so there is solid ground for speculation. For example, if Belkar became undead, it would work out since :
- Undead don't need IRA
- They don't eat birthday cakes
- They don't breathe.

That being said, I think his death will be permanent. I get the feeling that anything else would be perceived as cheap and anticlimactic, after making us wait for years. Besides, two Undead in the Order would be one too many (And the lil' bugger's bad enough already !)

The undead are still on this world, though, and Belkar's not long for it. I still think he's safe until he sees Hinjo again. Belkar's going to die protecting Hinjo from something... possibly the VFKAD, since Hinjo's probably not going to show up until after they start enacting Hel's plan, and I doubt that Hinjo's going to be rushing to fight Xykon himself.

[Death Knight of]

Im starting 2 think that belkar's death is bull**** he should have been sucked dry of blood by durkula if he can survive that, maybe his death wont happen until oots signs off as a strip

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Im starting 2 think that belkar's death is bull**** he should have been sucked dry of blood by durkula if he can survive that, maybe his death wont happen until oots signs off as a strip
So far, every single prophecy the Oracle has said has come to pass, and every answer he has given has been true. Why would he be wrong now?

[Ghost Nappa]

Im starting 2 think that belkar's death is bull**** he should have been sucked dry of blood by durkula if he can survive that, maybe his death wont happen until oots signs off as a strip

Durkula was a thrall at the time and was specifically told not to drink Belkar dry by his Master.

[Asteroid Bomb]

It will probably involve either Xykon or Mr. High Priest of Hel.

[Sir_Leorik]

Well, technically he didn't even use the word 'die', which would have been an obvious start (and I think the fact that he avoided using that word is one of the main reasons there are so many theories, although really that lends itself more to silliness like Belkarfish than anything else.)

I think the strange wording was clearly meant to make us speculate, all else aside.

The Oracle uses lots of metaphors, riddles and euphemisms, along with literal answers, ambiguous answers and direct answers.

Metaphors include "When the gift horse comes calling don't look it in the mouth".

Riddles include "By speaking the right four words to the right being at the right time for all the wrong reasons."

Euphemisms include every hint that Belkar is going to die.

Literal answers include "In his throne room" in response to "Where is Xykon?".

Ambiguous answers include "Posthumously", in response to Durkon's question, "Yes -- for you, at least", in response to Elan, and "Yes", to Belkar's rambling question.

The Oracle has also given direct, unambiguous answers, with no riddles, snarky euphemisms or metaphors. "He is called Xykon." "Of these two given locations, Xykon will be within 1,000 feet of Girard's Gate first." "Try gingko bilboa (sic)." "Belkar will draw his last breath -- ever -- Before the end of the year. Breaking Fourth Wall: That's an "in-comic" year, not a real-time year, Oracle Fans! :smallwink:" "The murderer of your child is an Elf Wizard named Vaarsuvius. The Elf can be found on the royal junk of Lord Hinjo, the exiled ruler of Azure City. If you want I can draw a description of the Elf, as well as the Dwarf and Human he's currently chumming around with. Just... madame you should be careful, okay?" (This is my guess about what the Oracle told the ABD about V.