PDA

View Full Version : Spymaster or Temple Raider...



blackrogue
2007-01-23, 02:16 PM
Yeah so my rogue has made it to level six and I plan on taking a prestige class. Out of all the classes offered in "Song and Silence" (a book for rogues and bards) I've narrowed it down to two:

1) The Spymaster: Basically James Bond type of stuff from what I read. A spy type person who creates a cover and can do all this awesome bluff, intimidate and disguise skill. It sounds more like a bard class but it's offered to rogues.

2). The Temple Raider of Olidammara: Just what it says. A temple raider specializing in locki picking, traps and such with divine spells and the like.

The Spymaster sounds friggin awesome and I'd like to do it, but the Temple Raider is a hell of a lot more useful. I'll probably end up going with that and just add ranks into some of the other skills I want.

I'd like to hear other peoples stories if they have any about the two classes.

Peace

Telonius
2007-01-23, 02:29 PM
First, congrats on making it this far! You're in for tons of Rogue-y goodness.

Second, are you certain your DM is allowing Song and Silence? The book was written for 3.0 rules, not 3.5. I haven't looked at it in quite a while, so I'm not sure what would have to be updated. In general, if it's allowed, Temple Raider gives abilities that are more useful. Spymaster is a much better NPC prestige class, useful for bad guys and plot advancement. I'd suggest Thief-Acrobat from Complete Adventurer as another possible PrC, at least for a couple levels.

Fax Celestis
2007-01-23, 02:30 PM
Temple Raider and Spymaster were both updated to 3.5 in Complete Adventurer. They're fun, if not high-powered.

Person_Man
2007-01-23, 02:31 PM
Yeah, Song and Silence is 3.0. I generally don't allow it.

What is it that you want to be able to do? Knowing this will help with any build advice.

blackrogue
2007-01-23, 03:22 PM
Yeah I think I'll take a look at the thief acrobat.
As the Temple Raider I can get divine spells and since what the DM is handing out to us, Divine spells would definitely be helfpul to me and I won't always have to rely on the magic folks in the group.
I'll be looking at the complete adventurer tonight.

YPU
2007-01-24, 01:10 PM
Temple Raider and Spymaster were both updated to 3.5 in Complete Adventurer. They're fun, if not high-powered. no temple raider in complete adventurer, the spymaster is there. perhaps the temple raider is in complete devine?

Oeryn
2007-01-24, 01:29 PM
^ It is. Pretty cool prestige class, if you ask me.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-01-24, 02:45 PM
If you're looking for some magical bling, try the Arcane Trickster from the DMG. Here's the trick, though... take Sorcerer levels rather than Wizard, then choose spells which augment your toolkit already. For example, Alter Self makes the perfect disguise, no ranks in Disguise necessary unless you're trying to specifically impersonate someone. Pick up some touch attack spells to sneak attack with (Ray of Frost, Scorching Ray), and other handy utility spells (Knock replaces Open Locks in nearly every situation, Invisibility, and Improved Invisibility spell Sneak Attack in most situations, and don't ever underestimate the value of True Strike).

Don't think of it as being a sneaky sorcerer. Think of it as being a Rogue who developed innate magic to augment his already impressive bag of tricks. This is why you go Sorcerer rather than Wizard... you're not needing a lot of variaty of spells in your calling, but the ones you do need are going to be needed multiple times per day, which has Sorcerer written all over it.

Furthermore, being able to use wands, rods, and staves without requiring a UMD check every time is worth it just for lack of hassle. You can still use UMD to use things like a Wand of Cure Light Wounds, though, so it's not a worthless skill.

Larrin
2007-01-24, 03:06 PM
Spymaster (in complete adventurere for 3.5) focuses ALOT on obscuring your true identity, both from magic and mundane forms, and not a whole lot else you can't do better from other classes. If you need to infiltrate a magically guarded organization or do some serious bluffing to get into a kings confidences, this class is usefull, otherwise, i can't see it really doing much more then being a straight rogue would be. The temple raider (Complete Divine for 3.5) is much more of a well rounded character that has more then one use. And divine magic is always a friend.

In the end, if you NEED a spy, specifcally, then use a spy master, if you're just looking to rogue around in general coolness, go for the raider.

cupkeyk
2007-01-25, 07:46 AM
LOLz, Arcane Trickster is already a trap, using Sorc as your base spellcasting class will slow you down further. He already has six levels of Rogue, taking five of wiz or six of Sorc will make him suck. The best mix for arcane trickster is Rog1Wiz5UnseenSeer10ArcaneTrickster4

Anyway. As for being a Cleric/Rogue Gish try Skullclan Hunter from Miniatures Handbook, You need one level of Cleric though. Lets you sneak attack undead and grants immunity to fear, level drain and other undead offensive abilities. Getting Fate and Luck Domains will boost your uncanny dodge levels by three and allow you to reroll a single roll a day.

Oh and Spymaster sucks eggs compared to an Exemplar, BTW.

Not your thing, Temple Raider is reprinted in Complete Divine page sixty seven, not available until level eight as it requires a BAB of +7 (aside from Disable Device 4, Knowledge Religion 1, Open Lock 4, Search 8). Decent Prestige class.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-01-25, 08:23 PM
LOLz, Arcane Trickster is already a trap, using Sorc as your base spellcasting class will slow you down further. He already has six levels of Rogue, taking five of wiz or six of Sorc will make him suck. The best mix for arcane trickster is Rog1Wiz5UnseenSeer10ArcaneTrickster4

Anyway. As for being a Cleric/Rogue Gish try Skullclan Hunter from Miniatures Handbook, You need one level of Cleric though. Lets you sneak attack undead and grants immunity to fear, level drain and other undead offensive abilities. Getting Fate and Luck Domains will boost your uncanny dodge levels by three and allow you to reroll a single roll a day.

Oh and Spymaster sucks eggs compared to an Exemplar, BTW.

Not your thing, Temple Raider is reprinted in Complete Divine page sixty seven, not available until level eight as it requires a BAB of +7 (aside from Disable Device 4, Knowledge Religion 1, Open Lock 4, Search 8). Decent Prestige class.

LoLz indeed... he never specified how many levels he has. Even a single level of Sorcerer can give him True Strike. If he chooses his levels wisely, he can have every bit as much use and utility out of Sorc as his continued levels of Rogue. After all, we're building a Rogue with magic, not a sneaky Magic User. My suggestion is also Core, wheras yours is using several different splatbooks, which he may not have access to.

FURTHERMORE, the build which I proposed has Sneak Attack 8d6, and skillmonky skills nearly as high as a regular rogue might have. Even moreso, you won't need to bother with certain skills (Don't need Hide with Invisibility as a spell known, don't need Open Locks with Knock as a spell known), which means you have greater versitility in the skills which you do choose. Being a Sorcerer, furthermore, means that he can cast any of his spells more times per day than your build does, and a Rogue doesn't really need all that many spells to be uber anyways, now does it? So I've minimized the penalties and maximized the benifits and would, in general, run circles around your proposed build before sneak attacking with a Disentigrate and reducing it to a small pile of dust.

Next time why don't you try to, oh... I dunno... maybe actually present evidence before trying to say something is a trap or something sucks. Might not have that burned hair smell clinging to you as much, eh? kkthxbye

cupkeyk
2007-01-25, 08:44 PM
Dear sir, read the OP.


Yeah so my rogue has made it to level six and I plan on taking a prestige class.

Oh my! He's a sixth level rogue.