[PF] Please pimp my cleric 12 against undead (retraining and equipment up to 15)

[duboisjf]

I got this Iomedea cleric level 12. He's great against undead but I want him to be a real nuker to them. Campaign will end at level 15 so I only got two feats to choose but I can retrain a feat by level and buy the right gear.

So I would like to have your opinion on good feats and gear against undead to complete my wish list.

Campaign : Carrion Crown

We're using action point system so I just realize that it open up possibility cause I can emulate a feat by spending one.

STAT :
STR 10(12)
DEX 13
CON 13
INT 10
WIS 20(22)
CHA 16 (18)

DOMAIN : Sun and Glory

FEAT
H : Selective channeling
1 : Improved Channel
3 : Extra channel
5 : Alignment channel (evil) : To retrain for sure cause feat can be emulated if needed
7 : Quick Channel
9 : Extra Channel
11: Spell penetration

GEAR
Current
Breastplate +2
Mithral Heavy shield +1
Belt (+2 STR)
Headband (+2 WIS & CHA)
Cloak +3
Gravewatch pendant (like this one !)
Ring +1
Meatmagic rod (ectoplasmic lesser)

Wish list
Ghostvision gloves
Phylactery of positive channeling

PARTY
Paladin 12 (critical build)
Alchemist (melee, crit build too)
Ninja (Canon fodder)
Sorcerer

ROLE
- Caster : Non written rule about not using too much summons cause it slows the game. Party counting on me for utility spell.
- Melee : Can't remember last time my sword was truly needed. I try to give flanking and use aid another when casting would be a waste.
- Healer : Ninja has the bad habit to be badly injured in combat
- Undead nuker : This is want I want to do

Thank you

[Sayt]

My suggestion? Pick up Channel Smite (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/channel-smite-combat) and Guided Hand (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/-guided-hand), and consider dipping into Holy Vindicator (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/holy-vindicator), or retraining a level of two Holy Vindicator. You lose a little of your casting, but you get other fun stuff, and can contribute a little more to melee.

[Bigbeefie]

I got this Iomedea cleric level 12. He's great against undead but I want him to be a real nuker to them. Campaign will end at level 15 so I only got two feats to choose but I can retrain a feat by level and buy the right gear.

So I would like to have your opinion on good feats and gear against undead to complete my wish list.

Campaign : Carrion Crown

We're using action point system so I just realize that it open up possibility cause I can emulate a feat by spending one.

STAT :
STR 10(12)
DEX 13
CON 13
INT 10
WIS 20(22)
CHA 16 (18)

DOMAIN : Sun and Glory

FEAT
H : Selective channeling
1 : Improved Channel
3 : Extra channel
5 : Alignment channel (evil) : To retrain for sure cause feat can be emulated if needed
7 : Quick Channel
9 : Extra Channel
11: Spell penetration

GEAR
Current
Breastplate +2
Mithral Heavy shield +1
Belt (+2 STR)
Headband (+2 WIS & CHA)
Cloak +3
Gravewatch pendant (like this one !)
Ring +1
Meatmagic rod (ectoplasmic lesser)

Wish list
Ghostvision gloves
Phylactery of positive channeling

PARTY
Paladin 12 (critical build)
Alchemist (melee, crit build too)
Ninja (Canon fodder)
Sorcerer

ROLE
- Caster : Non written rule about not using too much summons cause it slows the game. Party counting on me for utility spell.
- Melee : Can't remember last time my sword was truly needed. I try to give flanking and use aid another when casting would be a waste.
- Healer : Ninja has the bad habit to be badly injured in combat
- Undead nuker : This is want I want to do

Thank you

First I hate to say it and don't mean to sound rude I'm just a realist. Channeling really is not the greatest way to go about a cleric. I tried it the first cleric I rolled up but sadly damage outweighs any kind of healing you can accomplish with a channel or even 2 channels a round. I find channel to be a good touch up but not a viable source of healing.

As far as being an Undead Bomb....Your paladin should already be accomplishing this with his first smite doing Double damage. Tho IDK why people build crit builds for an Undead heavy campaign....kinda seems a bit wasted to me considering Undead/incorporeal are immune to crits. Typically crit builds are the way to go but not so much when you know a lot of your enemies will be undead. I find a good hammer or reach weapon works best for bashing in skulls of the mindless hordes.

Now with the Obvious Pointed out I will say you could probably do without One Extra channel and The alignment channel. I wish you could have hit us up prior to getting so far Cause I would have recommended the Holy Vindicator Prestige class. Part of what I learned a long time ago is to chart out your characters entire progression. If something major is going to happen for you to switch your path then you take the feat that will keep you alive...if its not life threatening stick with your predetermined build for optimal success. Heck I even run the character through Levels 5,10,and 15 to see how he will perform and to make sure he is doing what I created him to do. Since you are kinda stuck with a lot of the feats you selected I recommend the feats:


Divine Interference
You can convert a spell to interfere with an enemy’s attack.

Prerequisites: Divine spellcaster, caster level 10th.

Benefit: As an immediate action, when an enemy within 30 feet hits an ally with an attack, you can sacrifice a prepared divine spell or (if you are a spontaneous caster) an unused spell slot and make the enemy reroll the attack roll. The second attack roll takes a penalty equal to the level of the spell you sacrifice. You must sacrifice a spell of 1st-level or higher to use this ability. Whether or not the second attack is successful, you cannot use this effect on the same creature again for 1 day.

And


Quicken Spell (Metamagic)
You can cast spells in a fraction of the normal time.

Benefit: Casting a quickened spell is a swift action. You can perform another action, even casting another spell, in the same round as you cast a quickened spell. A spell whose casting time is more than 1 round or 1 full-round action cannot be quickened.

Level Increase: +4 (a quickened spell uses up a spell slot four levels higher than the spell's actual level.)

Casting a quickened spell doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity.

Special: You can apply the effects of this feat to a spell cast spontaneously, so long as it has a casting time that is not more than 1 full-round action, without increasing the spell's casting time.

Being a full spell caster Quicken spell is one of the top meta magics you can grab. Quicken out Spiritual Allies and Weapons....Quicken your prayers/bless. Quicken anything you find useful =). Another option is empower spell....as I always enjoy empowered Blade Barriers. Empower will make your Undead blast spells hit much harder.

[duboisjf]

First I hate to say it and don't mean to sound rude I'm just a realist. Channeling really is not the greatest way to go about a cleric. I tried it the first cleric I rolled up but sadly damage outweighs any kind of healing you can accomplish with a channel or even 2 channels a round. I find channel to be a good touch up but not a viable source of healing.


On a general base, I agree with you, but in this specific campaign with that party, I can't recall how many time I saved the day with my channel energy, I was really surprised with that. With domains, feats and traits, I got 6d6+12 DC 25 against undead, and I'm looking for the phylactery for the +2d6.

The divine interference feats is great ! Exactly what I need to keep the ninja alive.

[gartius]

As far as being an Undead Bomb....Your paladin should already be accomplishing this with his first smite doing Double damage. Tho IDK why people build crit builds for an Undead heavy campaign....kinda seems a bit wasted to me considering Undead/incorporeal are immune to crits. Typically crit builds are the way to go but not so much when you know a lot of your enemies will be undead. I find a good hammer or reach weapon works best for bashing in skulls of the mindless hordes.



undead are not immune to crits. thats a 3.5 trait which pf doesnt share.

Critical Hits

The following creature types (or subtypes) have immunity to critical hits (that is, they do not take any additional damage from critical hits):

Aeon (subtype): "Immunity to cold, poison, and critical hits."
Elemental (subtype): Elementals are "not subject to critical hits or flanking. Does not take additional damage from precision-based attacks, such as sneak attack."
Incorporeal (subtype): "An incorporeal creature is immune to critical hits (unless the attacks are made using a weapon with the ghost touch special weapon quality.)"
Ooze (Type): <Oozes are...> "not subject to critical hits or flanking. Does not take additional damage from precision-based attacks (such as sneak attack.)"
Protean (subtype): (50% chance to ignore, see below*)
Swarm (Type): "A swarm has no clear front or back and no discernible anatomy, so it is not subject to critical hits."

as a result while incorporeal creatures are still immune to crits there is no reason why the pally doesnt have a ghost touch weapon to keep up.

id agree on retraining the channel feats you have a few too many-pick up guided hand or a guided weapon (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapons-non-core/weapon-property---guided)

[Bigbeefie]

undead are not immune to crits. thats a 3.5 trait which pf doesnt share.

Critical Hits

The following creature types (or subtypes) have immunity to critical hits (that is, they do not take any additional damage from critical hits):

Aeon (subtype): "Immunity to cold, poison, and critical hits."
Elemental (subtype): Elementals are "not subject to critical hits or flanking. Does not take additional damage from precision-based attacks, such as sneak attack."
Incorporeal (subtype): "An incorporeal creature is immune to critical hits (unless the attacks are made using a weapon with the ghost touch special weapon quality.)"
Ooze (Type): <Oozes are...> "not subject to critical hits or flanking. Does not take additional damage from precision-based attacks (such as sneak attack.)"
Protean (subtype): (50% chance to ignore, see below*)
Swarm (Type): "A swarm has no clear front or back and no discernible anatomy, so it is not subject to critical hits."

as a result while incorporeal creatures are still immune to crits there is no reason why the pally doesnt have a ghost touch weapon to keep up.

id agree on retraining the channel feats you have a few too many-pick up guided hand or a guided weapon (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapons-non-core/weapon-property---guided)

my bad lol...my group still does not allow All undead to be crit.


Precision damage (such as that dealt by a rogue's sneak attack ability) applies to more creatures than it did in previous editions of the game.

Some may balk at this but it can easily be imagined or explained as the rogue having found a weak point in the undead's "body" (such as a zombie's head) or even finding a crack or flaw in a construct's "body."

There is some degree of confusion as to what should separate a "critical hit" from a "precision-based attack" but in any event, in some cases they are treated differently. My DM goes off how much of the Undead is left to crit and usually we don't get to crit them when we play because our DM was such a stanch 3.5 player. So for years we just look at undead as uncritable in our group. Sorry about the confusion. At least you liked Divine Interference.


Also I like greyflame + Guided + Spell storing weapons with channel characters that can cast.


Grayflame


Price +1 bonus
Aura moderate transmutation; CL 6th; Weight —

DESCRIPTION

This weapon responds to channeled positive and negative energy.

When the wielder spends a swift action to channel energy through the weapon, it ignites with a strange gray flame that sheds light as a torch, increases the weapon's enhancement bonus by +1, and deals +1d6 damage (as the divine power from flame strike) to creatures struck by the weapon. This flame lasts for 1 round for every d6 of damage or healing the channeling normally provides. When charged with positive energy, the flame is a silvery gray, good creatures are immune to the weapon's extra damage, and the weapon counts as a good and silver weapon for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction. When charged with negative energy, the flame is an ashen gray, evil creatures are immune to the weapon's extra damage, and the weapon counts as an evil and cold iron weapon for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction. This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons.

[khachaturian]

a few things i don't understand

- why mithral on the heavy shield? if you are concerned about weight, darkwood is cheaper
- can probably ditch the ring of protection, with shield of faith giving you a +4 deflection bonus at level 12
- similarly clerics probably never need an armor enhancement greater than +1 since magic vestment gives you +3 at level 12. a +1 deathless breastplate might serve you better going against undead.
- why the +2 belt if you are not swinging your sword? if you want a physical stat, con might be more helpful
- agree with ditching the two extra channels and alignment channel. alternatives include scribe scroll, divine interference for sure. as feats or metamagic rods, reach and extend are great for buffs, as is quicken. persist is good if you cast save or suck. having three metamagic feats also sets you up for spell perfection at level 15
- even for specializing against undead, the domains are suboptimal. if you are committed to sun, i would trade glory for heroism. that being said, since glory gives you so little, taking an archetype which sacrifices a domain, such as evangelist or theologian may be worth looking into. the extra damage from inspire courage probably adds significantly more damage than loss of channel dice sacrifices, especially if you have haste or blessing of fervor up.
- wondrous items that are good for everybody might include quick runner's shirt, handy haversack (especially if you carry lots of scrolls), eyes of the eagle, feather step slippers, cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone, stone of good luck, cloak minor displacement. for a cleric, prayer bead karma, orange prism ioun stone are pretty baller. i would also pick up a sack of level one pearls of power if you do end up picking divine interference.

[khachaturian]

actually, level 15 gives you wbl 240,000, so other items to think about might be otherworldly kimono, spellguard bracers, amulet of natural armor, jingasa of the fortunate soldier, adding fortification to you armor/shield, dragonbone divination sticks, tree feather tokens, black soul shard, gloves of storing, rings of sustenance or inner fortitude, circle of mindsight, martyr's tear, ioun stones- amethyst, dark blue, dusty rose, emerald, pale green, pearly white. and just because you aren't swinging your weapon, doesn't mean it can't have useful properties, like dueling, defending, or lifesurge. depending on your dm, you may be limited to a spiked gauntlet if you still want to cast, since you have a heavy shield.

[duboisjf]

a few things i don't understand

- why mithral on the heavy shield? if you are concerned about weight, darkwood is cheaper
- can probably ditch the ring of protection, with shield of faith giving you a +4 deflection bonus at level 12
- similarly clerics probably never need an armor enhancement greater than +1 since magic vestment gives you +3 at level 12. a +1 deathless breastplate might serve you better going against undead.
- why the +2 belt if you are not swinging your sword? if you want a physical stat, con might be more helpful
- agree with ditching the two extra channels and alignment channel. alternatives include scribe scroll, divine interference for sure. as feats or metamagic rods, reach and extend are great for buffs, as is quicken. persist is good if you cast save or suck. having three metamagic feats also sets you up for spell perfection at level 15
- even for specializing against undead, the domains are suboptimal. if you are committed to sun, i would trade glory for heroism. that being said, since glory gives you so little, taking an archetype which sacrifices a domain, such as evangelist or theologian may be worth looking into. the extra damage from inspire courage probably adds significantly more damage than loss of channel dice sacrifices, especially if you have haste or blessing of fervor up.
- wondrous items that are good for everybody might include quick runner's shirt, handy haversack (especially if you carry lots of scrolls), eyes of the eagle, feather step slippers, cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone, stone of good luck, cloak minor displacement. for a cleric, prayer bead karma, orange prism ioun stone are pretty baller. i would also pick up a sack of level one pearls of power if you do end up picking divine interference.

First, thank you. Now more explanation.

- Mithral shiel : Got it from an enemy not bought, never tought about changing it.
- Ring, armor and belt : Good points, will make the trade
- Feat : Very nice option
- Archetype and Domain : I wish I took that at creation cause Don't think te DM will allow this change.
- Item : Very nice too

[andreww]

If you will see much play time at level 15 then I would switch some feats to grab three metamagics in order to qualify for spell perfection. Extend (all day buffs), Persistent (hard to make saves) and Quicken are all good options.

If you want to blast as a cleric I am quite partial to using perfection on Holy Smite. 5d8 damage isnt much but it is party friendly (if they arent evil) and carries a blinded rider. With perfection you can drop a persistent one and a quickened one using 2 level 4 slots. You could get up to 15d6 (no save) from empowered searing light or 15d8 against vampires. Being level 3 you can get a quickened empowered and an empowered one each round from a level 3 and 5 slot for 30d6/30d8.

You could perfect empowered Undeath to Death for 22d4HD worth of undead. A Karma bead would up that to 28d4 but you only affect 8HD and fewer. If you just want damage then perfecting Flame Strike can net you 22d6 from empowered followed by another 15d6 from quickened.

If you do go down the perfection route then you might want to take Preferred Spell for your perfected spell so you never have to memorise it but that means taking Heighten as one of the 3 metamagics.

You also have access to Sunbeam. If you perfected and preferred it you could be casting persistent sunbeams from level 7 slots and auto destroying vampires, spectres and wraiths who fail their saves and 15d6 damage otherwise. Best of all each casting lasts for 1 round/level so thats 13-15 attacks per single spell slot which can hit multiple enemies if you line it up right.

Of your current feats I would dump all of the chanel ones. Channel is a generally terrible options, especially at high level as it fails to scale. Heal will rapidly become your staple healing spell at this level. I would grab spell focus and greater spell focus in whichever school you perfect (in order to double them), improved initiative, three metamagics and maybe a craft feat or heavy armour. That is of course a lot of retraining.

I would also grab a +4 or 6 wisdom headband as soon as possible.

[khachaturian]

spell perfection is kind of tricky for a cleric since the benefits favor a spell that you would want to quicken, and might have a save and/or sr. something like a magus's shocking grasp, or a necromancer's enervation, or even a druid's sna seem like they would be great candidates. for the cleric less, it's much less obvious

- flame strike. you can quicken, empower, maximize, intensify, piercing, daze, selective that one up to your heart's content, and any bonus from spell focus or spell penetration is doubled... but blasting pretty much sucks, especially for clerics

- heal. unfortunately as a level six spell, you can't quicken it. also, it's not dice-dependent, so you can't maximize or empower it. you can reach, intensify and echo it, and if used offensively, can daze, persist, pierce. unfortunately this means getting less mileage out of the free metamagic since most of these are +1 or +2.

if you are committed to blasting, metamagic is your friend. in addition to spell perfection, the magical lineage trait is helpful. and it might merit at least asking the dm about the theologian archetype.

and looking at your equipment list again, it would probably be much more effective to trade the ectoplasmic metamagic rod for reach or extend, and just carry around a scroll or two of (mass) ghostbane dirge

[duboisjf]

Retrain is limited at 1 feat by level so I can retrain only 3 feats (lvls 13, 14 & 15)

So it could look like this.

13 : Heigthen spell (from retrain) & preferred spell
14 : Metamagic 2 (from retrain)
15 : Metamagic 3 (from retrain) and Spell perfection
or
13 : Heigthen spel (from retrain) & Divine interference
14 : Metamagic 2 (from retrain)
15 : Metamagic 3 (from retrain) and Spell perfection
or
13 : Heigthen spell (from retrain) & interference
14 : preferred spell (from retrain)
15 : Metamagic 2 (from retrain) and Metamagic 3


About items : Just realized that my total gear worths about 44K ! I got screwed somewhere cause other players are changing character from time to time (until now only 2 character made it through the entire campaign) and they created new character with the standard wealth by level. And since I used very few scroll, wand and other stuff, I'm feeling way behind !