DMG Witch Class

[TabletopGamer]

Has anyone ever tried to use this as a class? How did you work it?
Sure the spell list is there and how to cast and its spells per day

But what about HD, Skill points? Saves?
Class Features?

I am just curious as to what other people have done.

[NickChaisson]

Fluff-wise this class has always intrigued me, but I have never had the chance to actually play one. (up until very recently I was my groups DM for several years)

I've always just imagined it as a beefed up adept (npc class) but you could just modify the sorcerer. Sorry this wasnt more helpful.

[AuraTwilight]

What Nick said. The DMG says the Witch uses identical casting mechanics as a Sorcerer and doesn't specify any other changes besides the spell list.

[TabletopGamer]

Which is kinda what I do but the Witch is in the section about modifying classes and such so I was wondering if anyone has done anything different or interesting.

Like I kept that it casts spells like a Sorcerer (Spontaneously) and has the Sorcerer's spells per day but since it is such a focused spell list I gave it the Beguilers method of knowing all the spells of the level it can cast.

Things like that and so forth.

[NickChaisson]

Just a homebrew Witch class I'm working on. Any suggestions?

Witch Class

HD:D6
{table=head]{colsp=5}Table: The Witch |{colsp=11}Spells
Level | BaB | Fort | Reflex | Will | Special | 0| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4| 5| 6| 7| 8| 9
1 | +0 |
+0|
+0|
+2|Summon Familiar|5 | 3 | -| - | - | - | - | - | - | - |
2 | +1 |
+0|
+0|
+3||6 |4| -| - | - | - | - | - | - | - |
3 | +1 |
+1|
+1|
+3|Brew Potions|6 | 5 | -| - | - | - | - | - | - | - |
4 | +2 |
+1|
+1|
+4||6 | 6 | 3| - | - | - | - | - | - | - |
5 | +2 |
+1|
+1|
+4||6 |6 | 4| - | - | - | - | - | - | - |
6 | +3 |
+2|
+2|
+5|| 6 | 6 | 5| 3 | - | - | - | - | - | - |
7 | +3 |
+2|
+2|
+5||6| 6| 6| 4| -| - | - | - | - | - |
8 | +4 |
+2|
+2|
+6||6 | 6 | 6| 5 | 3 | - | - | - | - | - |
9 | +4 |
+3|
+3|
+6||6| 6| 6| 6| 4| - | - | - | - | - |
10 | +5 |
+3|
+3|
+7||6| 6| 6| 6| 5| 3 | - | - | - | - |
11 | +5 |
+3|
+3|
+7||6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 4| - | - | - | - |
12| +6/1 |
+4|
+4|
+8||6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 5 | - | - | - | - |
13 | +6/1 |
+4|
+4|
+8||6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 3| - | - | - |
14 | +7/2 |
+4|
+4|
+9||6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 4| - | - | - |
15 | +7/2 |
+5|
+5|
+9||6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 4| -|-|
16 | +8/3 |
+5|
+5|
+10||6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 3|-|
17 | +8/3 |
+5|
+5|
+10||6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 4| -|
18 | +9/4 |
+6|
+6|
+11|| 6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 5| 3|
19 | +9/4 |
+6|
+6|
+11||6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 4 |
20 | +10/5 |
+6|
+6|
+12||6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 6| 6|6|
[/table]
Skills:The Witches class skills are Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Heal, Knowledge(all skills taken seperatly), Profession, Spellcraft and Survival
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Class Features

Summon Familiar
Functions as the wizard/sorcerer summon familiar ability.
There are a few animals that everyone thinks of when they think of witches. Cats, toads, ravens and snakes. The standard familiar list already has these, So add these animals to the list of familiars the Witch can select.

Dog: +2 will save
Swan: +3 disguise checks
Fox: +3 gather information
Pig: +3 search checks
Raccoon: +3 sleight of hand
Skunk: +3 intimidate
Spider: +3 Climb checks
Vulture: +3 heal checks
Hyena: +3 survival checks


Brew Potion:The Witch gains Brew Potion as a bonus feat.

[Urpriest]

Just a homebrew Witch class I'm working on. Any suggestions?
Familiar Mount The With selects one of her familiars to meld with as a mount. The Witch possesses the familiars body for the purposes of travel and espionage.

That needs actual rules. The way it's written is way too nonspecific.

[TabletopGamer]

I dont know about the homebrew.

I was just curious if people had done anything with it.

Speaking of that has anyone tried to convert PF Witch to 3.5?
If so how did the spell list hold up?

If I added the DMG Witch Spells to the PF Witch Spells would it make it better?

[NickChaisson]

Your right Urpriest, That was silly of me. Guess I got a little carried away lol.
Anyway, removed the silly stuff. Hope this is something like what you were looking for ^_^

[Gnome Alone]

I too have been intrigued by the DMG witch class, because a) witches are cool, and b) fiddling around with base classes is fun; however, since being introduced to the Magic of Refluffing by the good optimization sages of the Playground, I've decided if I ever play a witch character I'll just use the druid and call it a day. Nature spells and turning into animals? Check.

Side note: I know there's a variant that trades the familiar for an animal companion - is the reverse true? I'm not actually sure it's even necessary - I could see a witch with a plain old cat or bird as easily as with a magicked up version of same - but I can't find anything actually saying you can anywhere. (Though of course in the "just fiddle around with it yourself" spirit of the witch class in the DMG, why not just switch it anyway.)

[Urpriest]

I too have been intrigued by the DMG witch class, because a) witches are cool, and b) fiddling around with base classes is fun; however, since being introduced to the Magic of Refluffing by the good optimization sages of the Playground, I've decided if I ever play a witch character I'll just use the druid and call it a day. Nature spells and turning into animals? Check.

Side note: I know there's a variant that trades the familiar for an animal companion - is the reverse true? I'm not actually sure it's even necessary - I could see a witch with a plain old cat or bird as easily as with a magicked up version of same - but I can't find anything actually saying you can anywhere. (Though of course in the "just fiddle around with it yourself" spirit of the witch class in the DMG, why not just switch it anyway.)

Urban Companion is a companion that is basically a familiar.

[Scow2]

Witches need to be able to ride around on Hyenas as a valid familiar type (Don't just use European witches) - Preferably, said hyenas are rocket-powered (Yes, this is actually a thing in African myth!)

[NickChaisson]

I know, right? Thats what I was going for with the familiar melding thing. There is probably a much simpler approach to it than the way I was going though.

[Gnome Alone]

Urban Companion is a companion that is basically a familiar.

Thank you! I have looked it up and that is perfect.

[paddyfool]

I've decided if I ever play a witch character I'll just use the druid and call it a day. Nature spells and turning into animals? Check.


"Witch" has such a variety of descriptions that I'd be perfectly happy for a "Witch" to be a refluffed Sorcerer, Wizard, Adept, Artificer, Beguiler, Psion, or Wilder as well. Probably also some of the incarnum classes, although I don't know incarnum well enough to comment. EDIT: Oh, Spirit Shaman and Warlock too. And probably quite a number of others I'm forgetting.

[Suteinu]

My wife is currently playing a witch-character. We're playing 3.5, but for simplicity and flavor we're using the PF Witch class with the DMG Witch spell list. It's working great, so far.

'Course the coolest part is that her witch's familiar is a swarm of bees. That delivers touch-ranged attacks. Ever been tazed by a swarm of bees? Shocking Grasp and anaphylactic shock. Trouble negotiating with a guard at the gate? Bees chase him into the bushes and the party just walks in.

[Dalebert]

So many problems get resolved by just switching to PF, including this one.

[Maginomicon]

Personally, I’d say allow it to cast any spell on its class list like a warmage and give it Brew Potion as a bonus feat at 3rd level (it otherwise is a variant sorcerer, so it retains the summon familiar ability of a sorcerer and is eligible for non-spell character options that a sorcerer would have access to, such as draconic heritage).

[Novawurmson]

Somebody's gotta link it (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch).

[Urpriest]

I know, right? Thats what I was going for with the familiar melding thing. There is probably a much simpler approach to it than the way I was going though.

It's really not too hard to put together. Give it an ability to possess the familiar "as Magic Jar" or the like, either add a duration and usage limit or specify that it's at-will, decide what type of ability it is, etc.

It's definitely a nice, thematic ability for a Witch, just needs the full detail on how it works.

[Afgncaap5]

I've wondered about this class for a bit. I've sometimes wondered what it would do to the witch if the spell list was bumped up a notch to include a few Wu Jen spells. Some of them seem thematically appropriate, and they're not exactly as powerful as wizardly stuff (most of the time, anyway.)

[Zombulian]

I've wondered about this class for a bit. I've sometimes wondered what it would do to the witch if the spell list was bumped up a notch to include a few Wu Jen spells. Some of them seem thematically appropriate, and they're not exactly as powerful as wizardly stuff (most of the time, anyway.)

This is true. Snake Darts would be awesome for this.

[Gnome Alone]

"Witch" has such a variety of descriptions that I'd be perfectly happy for a "Witch" to be a refluffed Sorcerer, Wizard, Adept, Artificer, Beguiler, Psion, or Wilder as well. Probably also some of the incarnum classes, although I don't know incarnum well enough to comment. EDIT: Oh, Spirit Shaman and Warlock too. And probably quite a number of others I'm forgetting.

Yep, all good. Spirit Shaman and Warlock in particular seem like they'd be fun. I just meant I'd be perfectly happy just using Druid.

The whole plethora of what "witch" can mean reminds me of an argument on the forums here awhile ago over whether such a thing as a "half-vampire" makes any sense, and someone pointed out that "vampire" is used in so many different cultures and with so many different connotations that its powers can be almost anything. (And that the earliest forms of vampire were basically half-vampires.) Innarestin' stuff.

[NickChaisson]

It's really not too hard to put together. Give it an ability to possess the familiar "as Magic Jar" or the like, either add a duration and usage limit or specify that it's at-will, decide what type of ability it is, etc.
.

Thanks for the idea ^_^

[Grizzled Gryphon]

It seems to me that any given caster class could be a "witch". Its just a matter of fluff. Especially if you take into consideration the thousands of different types of witches in mythology, superstition, and a hoard of fantasy books. I am not sure they really needed to make a "class" out of something that is mostly flavor, but the witch class in PF is neat, so its certainly not a bad thing that they did.

As for the DMG witch, I thought that was supposed to be an NPC, wasn't it? If a player wanted to play a "witch" character, I would tell them to pick a caster type class, and make sure to pick the spells/powers/invocations that fit the witch idea you have in mind.

[Sgt. Cookie]

'Course the coolest part is that her witch's familiar is a swarm of bees. That delivers touch-ranged attacks. Ever been tazed by a swarm of bees? Shocking Grasp and anaphylactic shock.

Can I sig this? This is just too funny to go unnoticed.

[Malak'ai]

My wife is currently playing a witch-character. We're playing 3.5, but for simplicity and flavor we're using the PF Witch class with the DMG Witch spell list. It's working great, so far.

'Course the coolest part is that her witch's familiar is a swarm of bees. That delivers touch-ranged attacks. Ever been tazed by a swarm of bees? Shocking Grasp and anaphylactic shock. Trouble negotiating with a guard at the gate? Bees chase him into the bushes and the party just walks in.

So she's playing as Granny Weatherwax?

[Gemini476]

As for the DMG witch, I thought that was supposed to be an NPC, wasn't it? If a player wanted to play a "witch" character, I would tell them to pick a caster type class, and make sure to pick the spells/powers/invocations that fit the witch idea you have in mind.
If the Witch was meant to be an NPC, then it's certainly the strongest NPC caster. The Adept isn't anywhere near that level of power.

But yeah, it's a PC class. Or the basics of one. It's an example for how DMs can make custom spell lists if they're homebrewing classes.

[Novawurmson]

So she's playing as Granny Weatherwax?

She knows how to start spelling the word "bananas," but she doesn't know how to stop.

[Zombulian]

The thing that definitely gives me a little "Witch" flavor over Wizard or Sorcerer is:
1) A flying broom
2) A familiar
3) Prestidigitation
4) Baleful Polymorph
I kinda wanna do a character like this now. Give her a sort of Zaniba from Spirited Away feel.

[Dalebert]

3) Prestidigitation


And it's not on the Witch's spell list in PF! :smallconfused:

[Fitz10019]

She knows how to start spelling the word "bananas," but she doesn't know how to stop.

You're thinking of Nanny Ogg.

Speaking of Nanny and Granny, a Witch class should have two paths (like the two weapons-style paths for Rangers), a Prolific Reproduction path, and a Virgin path, with different features.

[Zombulian]

And it's not on the Witch's spell list in PF! :smallconfused:

Or in the DMG. Donut get.

[Grytorm]

You're thinking of Nanny Ogg.

Speaking of Nanny and Granny, a Witch class should have two paths (like the two weapons-style paths for Rangers), a Prolific Reproduction path, and a Virgin path, with different features.

Well and the... other one.

[Dr. Azkur]

Semantically speaking, a witch is any female Warlock...

By looking at the Warlock class and tilting your head a bit you can see a semblance of the classic european witch concept. They get baleful polymorph as an invocation; they can take 10 on UMD at lvl 4 and with a 16 in CHA, their pseudo-focus stat, they're using wands without chance of failing; they are also good debuffers. And well, of course, witches got their power from pacts with Satan.

They just kind of stirred away, but I guess that's okay, I wouldn't like them so much if they emulated it perfectly.

Edit: I do wonder why they completely decided to forgo adding hexes, while some invocations could be argued to be hex-like, they're just not quite there.

[nedz]

There was a HexBlade mod I quite liked.
Remove spell casting, add in DFA like Invocation progression but using Warlock invocations — just no Blast, Shapes or Essences.

Roll with the standard HexBlade fixes and you're done. The BAB may be a bit too good, and the skills too poor though, but those could be fixed.