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Woot Spitum
2007-01-23, 04:46 PM
I was was wondering, am I the only one who's getting sick of the comic, beer-swilling, voiced by Scotty from Star Trek dwarves that seem to be the staple of the fantasy genre (including everything related to D&D) nowadays? I really miss the more serious dwarves from Tolkien. Granted, some of them (like Bombur) were occasionaly comical, but nothing like most dwarves today (or the movie version of Gimli). I'd like to hear anyone's ideas on dwarves that are somewhat different from the norm (and not just evil dwarves, I already know all about deurgar and derro). I'll even accept comic ideas, as long as they're different (my own idea is dwarves with english accents as in : "All right lads, we may have drawn bit of a nasty assignment, but the sooner we can take down this dragon, the sooner we can have tea!").:smallbiggrin:

Fax Celestis
2007-01-23, 04:50 PM
British dwarves is highly comedic. Good job.

Making them Minnesotan or Bostonian is a favorite trick of mine too.

EDIT: Or Georgian. Something about a Dwarf saying, "Y'all" is amusing to me.

Telonius
2007-01-23, 04:50 PM
Most of the Dwarves I've seen played either have Scottish or Scandinavian accents. I do have this crazy notion of a Pittsburgh-accent dwarf that I may spring on my DM one of these days...

Indoril
2007-01-23, 04:53 PM
I played a Dwarf with a French accent once. It was like eating cereal from a plate.

Fax Celestis
2007-01-23, 04:55 PM
I played a Dwarf with a French accent once. It was like eating cereal from a plate.

"Oui, oui, monsieur, zees armour, it ees tre magnifique." *pop* "Now, monsieur, pass zee ale."

The_Snark
2007-01-23, 04:55 PM
On these boards, I played a French dwarf at one point. Worked out pretty well, really.

A Russian accent also works well, particularly if your dwarves are a little more secretive and less up-front-chivalrous than the standard D&D dwarf.

Edit- Simu'ed!

Runolfr
2007-01-23, 04:58 PM
While I'm fond of the Scottish accent, my dwarves aren't comical. They will have a drink when it suits them, but they don't swill. I also think dwarves should be wizards, frequently; Norse mythology is full of dwarf wizards and illusionists.

Woot Spitum
2007-01-23, 05:06 PM
While I'm fond of the Scottish accent, my dwarves aren't comical. They will have a drink when it suits them, but they don't swill. I also think dwarves should be wizards, frequently; Norse mythology is full of dwarf wizards and illusionists.

That's fine by me. What really cheeses me off is the idea that you can get a dwarf to do anything as long as you add the phrase "Hooray beer!" to the end of it.

Matthew
2007-01-23, 05:22 PM
I think just about everyone exposed to the Dwarf stereotype gets sick of it at some point. It is nothing to worry about, really, unless you are constantly encountering them during your game.

Lord Iames Osari
2007-01-23, 05:24 PM
How about Russian/German dwarves?

Woot Spitum
2007-01-23, 05:29 PM
How about Russian/German dwarves?

Hmm...very lawful, structured societies, strong martial tradition, facial hair is popular, I think Russian/German dwarves would work quite well.

Thomas
2007-01-23, 05:32 PM
On these boards, I played a French dwarf at one point. Worked out pretty well, really.

A Russian accent also works well, particularly if your dwarves are a little more secretive and less up-front-chivalrous than the standard D&D dwarf.

Wow, that's some negative stereotype about Russians.

Are you Finnish too? :smalltongue:


I think Tolkien's dwarves are too dang cheery. I mean, look at the bunch of singing, bumbling buggers in the Hobbit. Gloranthan dwarves literally think they are cogs in a machine. And they have firearms and explosives in a world where no one else does, and they reproduce in vitro (or in vats, to be precise). And they think humans and the like are fit for slavery, at most, and generally must be exterminated before they damage the Great World Machine any more...


Edit: German dwarves seem perfect. After all, one of the most classic dwarf races - the Nibelungs - is Germanic. (Of course the Nibelungenlied is a rewriting of the Volsunga Saga, but hey...)

My dwarves don't have accents.

Fax Celestis
2007-01-23, 05:33 PM
Wow, that's some negative stereotype about Russians.

Are you Finnish too? :smalltongue:


I think Tolkien's dwarves are too dang cheery. I mean, look at the bunch of singing, bumbling buggers in the Hobbit. Gloranthan dwarves literally think they are cogs in a machine. And they have firearms and explosives in a world where no one else does, and they reproduce in vitro (or in vats, to be precise). And they think humans and the like are fit for slavery, at most, and generally must be exterminated before they damage the Great World Machine any more...


...in vatro?

Sulecrist
2007-01-23, 05:34 PM
Or Jewish.

I mean it in the most respectful way, but one of my favorite characters was a Dwarven Cleric played like [pretty much everybody from Fiddler on the Roof].

EDIT: To explain: he was very honor-bound by lineage and heritage; he quoted the Book of Moradin on everything; he preferred long-winded negotiation to violence; he joked, but reverently; he spent hours each day working on his home and garden, and he drove a little cart.

I think I'm going to bring him back.

TimeWizard
2007-01-23, 05:35 PM
Most of my country role playing depends on class. Fighters are German, Barbarians are Russian (felt better then vikings), Wizards are British,
Rogues are usually slum based, and Cleric's are usually American, only because I'm American and it felt normal.

Thomas
2007-01-23, 05:37 PM
Hmm...very lawful, structured societies, strong martial tradition, facial hair is popular, I think Russian/German dwarves would work quite well.

Er... are you talking about Germany or Russia? Because I can't see how that applise to either country, really. Germany a bit, maybe, but...

The Russian military tradition mostly consisted of forced conscription in any great wars they've been in the last century, and the modern Russian army is a collection of human rights violations (the hazing of new recruits regularly leads to "accidental" deaths), under-trained men, and equipment that doesn't work (no money to repair it). The Russian bureaucracy is one of the most corrupt in Europe, and the country is anything but lawful...

I'd say the British fit your description - structured society, martial tradition, facial hair - much better.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-01-23, 05:40 PM
My absolute favorite dwarf PC was convinced that he was just a short and stocky human. He tried to fit in with human civilization by acting like every obnoxious Hollywood/American pop culture stereotype you can imagine. "Yo dudes, le's go get us some lamb burgers in this grill dawg. Guys? C'mon, I'm down with it!"

It was awesome.

Woot Spitum
2007-01-23, 05:41 PM
If you think Tolkien's dwarves are bad, you should see Salvatore's dwarves. They don't simply make holy water that resembles beer, their holy water IS beer.:smallfurious:

The_Snark
2007-01-23, 05:45 PM
Wow, that's some negative stereotype about Russians.

Are you Finnish too? :smalltongue:

Heh, no. Didn't mean it to come across that way, though I can see how it might. But it's one of the few accents that works that way; French, British, and of course Scottish all come across as comical. I'm envisioning these dwarves as reclusive and maybe a little xenophobic, but very knowledgeable. Like an intimidating professor. The accent just happens to work well for it, as long as it's a subtle accent.

Actually, it just occurred to me: why do dwarves have to have an accent at all? Most people don't picture elves as having a particular accent or manner of speech, and most of the other races get off pretty lightly, with just a few typical and mostly made-up manners of speech. Why are dwarves stuck so universally with real-world accents? Unless every race corresponds to a real-world accent, which is fine, there's no reason they should be more strongly accented.

Thomas
2007-01-23, 05:53 PM
Like I said, my dwarves have no accent. I haven't any clue where the idea of dwarves with Scottish accents can actually be traced to. (And I've got no clue where there's ever been a dwarf with a Nordic accent. A British friend of mine opined that the Swedish accent on English sounds... well, "camp"... Finns have been saying that for as long as I've lived. :smalltongue: Danish just sounds like speaking Swedish with a whole hot potato in your mouth, and Norwegian's little different from both...)

Fhaolan
2007-01-23, 05:54 PM
In my campaign, the dwarven culture is highly lawful. So lawful in fact they have no government recognizable to a non-dwarf. Everything is dictated by custom and tradition. EVERYTHING. The closest thing to a government are the dwarves who keep track of all the customs and traditions that dwarves follow, just so nobody forgets one. If a dwarf acts in such a way that is contrary to custom and tradition, the nearest dwarves will act almost automatically to correct the miscreant, using whatever punishment that is customary and traditional. :)

In the current party I'm DMing for, there is a Dwarven cleric of a god of good-natured Trickery and Travel who had fled from his homelands for obvious reasons. The party had to travel incognito through a dwarven area, and the character was in constant panic trying to keep the party from accidentally triggering a 'custom and tradition' event.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-01-23, 05:58 PM
That's absolute brilliance. I commend you.

vbushido
2007-01-23, 06:02 PM
Perhaps the reason so many people do use Scottish or Germanic accents for dwarves is because it's hard to imagine beings so short and stout having light, dainty voices. Once they pick up the accent, other cultural markers follow. Scots aren't light drinkers and their idea of "manly games" many others find "insanely Darwinian." (Let's spin in a circle and toss a hefty metal object as far as we can and hope we aimed correctly. Let's toss telephone poles for fun. I think the safest sport they invented was golf.) Any group whose males run about a good part of the year with the manly bits exposed to the elements leaves me wondering how they've survived to reproduce. Scotland is cold.

-----
Morning people are respected--night people are feared

Thomas
2007-01-23, 06:06 PM
I wouldn't say there's anything particularly "heavy" about Scottish or Germanic accents. Maybe one rarely hears women using them on American TV or something, though...

If I had to pick a coarse language for broody folk who dwell in near-constant darkness, consume copious amounts of alcohol, and think violence is a great pastime... Finnish, definitely. :smallwink:

And Scotland can't be cold. Misty and drizzly, maybe, but it's far too south to be cold. The northernmost tip doesn't even reach the latitude of Helsinki...

Sulecrist
2007-01-23, 06:08 PM
Perhaps the reason so many people do use Scottish or Germanic accents for dwarves is because it's hard to imagine beings so short and stout having light, dainty voices. Once they pick up the accent, other cultural markers follow. Scots aren't light drinkers and their idea of "manly games" many others find "insanely Darwinian." (Let's spin in a circle and toss a hefty metal object as far as we can and hope we aimed correctly. Let's toss telephone poles for fun. I think the safest sport they invented was golf.) Any group whose males run about a good part of the year with the manly bits exposed to the elements leaves me wondering how they've survived to reproduce. Scotland is cold.


It's funny, because when I was living there (playing among other things D&D) even the Scottish players faked an even more Scottish accent for the dwarves, and mocked us foreigners in-character and out for trying to "imitate" them.

Man, I wanna go back. It toughened me up.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-01-23, 06:09 PM
He's American. The entirety of the United States is further south then even all of England. The only exception to this is Alaska, which he's not from either and very few Americans see.

So, Scotland is crazy cold to us.

Rei_Jin
2007-01-23, 06:11 PM
The reason for me that all Dwarves are Scottish is that all Elves are English. Those two had a fierce rivalry going for a very, very long time, and I don't think it's blown over yet.

That, and I like Scotland.

The_Snark
2007-01-23, 06:17 PM
I wouldn't say there's anything particularly "heavy" about Scottish or Germanic accents. Maybe one rarely hears women using them on American TV or something, though...

If I had to pick a coarse language for broody folk who dwell in near-constant darkness, consume copious amounts of alcohol, and think violence is a great pastime... Finnish, definitely. :smallwink:

And Scotland can't be cold. Misty and drizzly, maybe, but it's far too south to be cold. The northernmost tip doesn't even reach the latitude of Helsinki...

Real German and Scottish accents usually aren't all that heavy, no. The accents most frequently applied to dwarves are almost always on the heavy end of the spectrum, and sometimes well past it.

And speaking as an American, I'd say the reason that most of us don't have Finnish dwarves is that we couldn't imitate the accent to save our lives.

Scotland isn't cold, just rainy or foggy. I liked that about it, actually.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-01-23, 06:19 PM
Oh sure, beautiful country.

But for a US Virginian, it was like walking into a freezer.

Thomas
2007-01-23, 06:20 PM
And speaking as an American, I'd say the reason that most of us don't have Finnish dwarves is that we couldn't imitate the accent to save our lives.

No wonder. It'd require the ability to pronounce Finnish (the differences in pronounciation are very fundamental), and then applying that pronounciation to English, which renders the words spoken pretty much unintelligible...

Drunk, moody dwarves who no one can understand. What's not to like?

The_Snark
2007-01-23, 06:20 PM
Oh sure, beautiful country.

But for a US Virginian, it was like walking into a freezer.

Bah. I live in California, and it wasn't that bad. Of course, I went in autumn, so I probably missed the worst of it.

Woot Spitum
2007-01-23, 06:25 PM
The reason for me that all Dwarves are Scottish is that all Elves are English. Those two had a fierce rivalry going for a very, very long time, and I don't think it's blown over yet.

That, and I like Scotland.

So, if I give dwarves English accents, it would make sense to give elves Scottish accents? THAT'S an idea I definately want part of my next game.:smallamused:

Fax Celestis
2007-01-23, 06:28 PM
So, if I give dwarves English accents, it would make sense to give elves Scottish accents? THAT'S an idea I definately want part of my next game.:smallamused:

No, remember: All Elves Sound Like Sean Connery.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-01-23, 06:30 PM
What? No, changelings and dopplegangers sound like Sean Connery.

And warforged sound like Optimus Prime or Megatron, depending on their alignment.

The_Snark
2007-01-23, 06:32 PM
What? No, changelings and dopplegangers sound like Sean Connery.

And warforged sound like Optimus Prime or Megatron, depending on their alignment.

I always wanted to make one that used HK-47's style of speech, actually.

Meatbags.

Hmmm, we're a little off-topic. Thomas' Finnish dwarf idea is starting to grow on me, though.

Rei_Jin
2007-01-23, 06:35 PM
So, for mine...

Dwarves = Scottish
Elves = English
Humans = Almost anything, they breed like &^%* rabbits
Warforged = HK47, meatbag! (been doing that for a while now, actually)
Halflings = They don't talk. They just sneak around, and die.
Gnomes = See Halflings.
Half-Orcs = Standard half-wit voice, although they may be Russian, just for sheer amusement value

Caelestion
2007-01-23, 06:36 PM
At the risk of being redundant, Scottish accents ARE British accents. Scotland is part of the British Isles, after all. I believe (but I may well be wrong) that Boston, Mass, is directly west of London.
And damn it, while the UK may not be locked in arctic temperatures all winter, it's -2 degrees Celsius tonight and I'm in southern England, let alone northern Scotland!

Rei_Jin
2007-01-23, 06:37 PM
The english don't say "Aye laddie, yer a wee bit too druuunk ta play wi' that"

They say "stiff upper lip, what?"

Yes, this is stereotypical and bad, but oh so funny.

Woot Spitum
2007-01-23, 06:38 PM
I always wanted to make one that used HK-47's style of speech, actually.

Meatbags.

Unless you're trying to be Starscream, I can't imagine any other way to voice an evil warforged.:smallamused:

Maybe if there were stereotyped voices for all the default D&D races...

Jorkens
2007-01-23, 06:38 PM
Half-Orcs = Standard half-wit voice, although they may be Russian, just for sheer amusement value
In Soviet Russia, half-orcs mock you.

Caelestion
2007-01-23, 06:44 PM
Isn't Starscream the blatantly gay one? :)

English toffs (supposedly!) say, "jolly good show, eh what?" in a very affected accent. Any Elf who spoke like that might as well wear a hot pink bodysuit and go to San Francisco!

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-01-23, 06:46 PM
What? No, that's Bumblebee. Starscream is the awesome evil one.

Rei_Jin
2007-01-23, 06:48 PM
English toffs (supposedly!) say, "jolly good show, eh what?" in a very affected accent. Any Elf who spoke like that might as well wear a hot pink bodysuit and go to San Francisco!

Yes, in my games that pretty much sums up elves. Why else would they have a superiority complex when they take so long to mature and get so little for it?

Fax Celestis
2007-01-23, 06:52 PM
Isn't Starscream the blatantly gay one? :)

English toffs (supposedly!) say, "jolly good show, eh what?" in a very affected accent. Any Elf who spoke like that might as well wear a hot pink bodysuit and go to San Francisco!

San Francisco has more than gay people, you know. It has a roaring financial dist-...no, that's not it. Well, it's got the Transamerica Pyramid, talles-...what? It's not? Well, it's got...a bridge! HAH! Beat that!

Woot Spitum
2007-01-23, 06:52 PM
Starscream's the one who trys to sieze control of the decepticons every time Megatron takes a hit ("Megatron has fallen! I, Starscream am now your leader! Decepticons, follow me!")

And, yes, that is a direct quote.

Rei_Jin
2007-01-23, 06:54 PM
Yeah, he's also really emo.

He cries like a whiny little ^%$* everytime he gets beaten down.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-01-23, 06:56 PM
"Why? That's what they all asked me. Why him -- why Starscream? Why, of all Decepticons, did I decide to revitalize the one whose record of deceit and betrayal is legendary? Because I'm an idiot, that's why!" - Megatron

mikeejimbo
2007-01-23, 07:12 PM
Any group whose males run about a good part of the year with the manly bits exposed to the elements leaves me wondering how they've survived to reproduce.

Maybe they found a way to keep warm.


In Soviet Russia, half-orcs mock you.

Ha! I loved this, so I had to quote it.

although
2007-01-23, 07:39 PM
What really cheeses me off is the idea that you can get a dwarf to do anything as long as you add the phrase "Hooray beer!" to the end of it.
Hey, it always works on me.

Folie
2007-01-23, 08:51 PM
Or Jewish.

I mean it in the most respectful way, but one of my favorite characters was a Dwarven Cleric played like [pretty much everybody from Fiddler on the Roof].

EDIT: To explain: he was very honor-bound by lineage and heritage; he quoted the Book of Moradin on everything; he preferred long-winded negotiation to violence; he joked, but reverently; he spent hours each day working on his home and garden, and he drove a little cart.

I think I'm going to bring him back.

Dammit, I was going to suggest Jewish dwarves! After all, I understand that Tolkien modeled the structure of his Dwarven language after those of the Semitic languages (e.g. Hebrew and Arabic). I'd even planned to play a Jewish dwarf - albeit, not a very observant one - in a Shadowrun campaign I'd been invited to join. Unfortunately, I couldn't join it because of scheduling conflicts, but I've still got Zakiah stuck in the back of my head, waiting patiently....

Magnus_Samma
2007-01-23, 09:04 PM
I generally think a cliche is something you only use when it's funny, and then abandon when the story demands otherwise. When my players went into a dwarven city, those that would appreciate the humor were surrounded by beer-swilling carousers, and those that wanted something a little more unique got somewhat less cliched stout folk. Everyone had a good time.

That being said, it is physically difficult to write a dwarf's dialogue without giving them a scottish accent.

dani_carip
2007-01-23, 09:12 PM
Or Jewish.

I mean it in the most respectful way, but one of my favorite characters was a Dwarven Cleric played like [pretty much everybody from Fiddler on the Roof].

EDIT: To explain: he was very honor-bound by lineage and heritage; he quoted the Book of Moradin on everything; he preferred long-winded negotiation to violence; he joked, but reverently; he spent hours each day working on his home and garden, and he drove a little cart.

I think I'm going to bring him back.

Apparently the dwarves from Discworld are often likened to Jewish people (by fans, not Pratchett)

Turcano
2007-01-24, 02:39 AM
If I had to pick a coarse language for broody folk who dwell in near-constant darkness, consume copious amounts of alcohol, and think violence is a great pastime... Finnish, definitely. :smallwink:

That's not a very good idea, at least not in America. For some inexplicable reason, Americans find rounded front vowels (which Finnish uses quite a bit, if I'm not mistaken) unbelievably hilarious, at least in my experience. (And I know that German has them too, but non-German-speaking Americans who adopt a "German" accent don't use them and have probably never heard of them.) So if you want serious, you'd be going in entirely the wrong direction.

daggaz
2007-01-24, 04:39 AM
Finnish??! Are you serious? Finnish is not at all a course language. Its a fast, but soft singsong, the consanents are played almost in staccato manner. Its not nearly as singsong as swedish, which really exaggerates the vowels, but I seriously wouldnt ever call it a course language.

Danish is course, except everything is gutteral and it sounds rather like you are drowning. Most of the hard sounds there have been swallowed somehow.

German can be very course, but if you ever heard a beautiful woman speak it, or a young child, you would have the exact opposite impression.

No, the perfect language (and culture) for dwarves is Icelandic. It is a direct descendent of ancient nordic and has barely changed in the last 1000 years. The language is heavy, rough, and violent in both pronounciation as well as in meaning and useage. That description goes for the culture as well. The icelanders nearly wiped themselves out in bloody infighting over land, sheep, and women numerous times, and had to pass strict laws on the subject to keep order. Laws which still stand today. And the land itself is the perfect home of the dwarves. Rough and mountainous, with bitter and hostile winters, the only large creatures other than man are the specially rugged icelandic sheep and horses. (The horses are built like buff ponies, perfect dwarven mounts). Add to this volcanoes, chasms full of steam and magma, mineral wealth, and the fact that until 100 years ago, everybody lived quite literally underground (homes where dug into the permafrost and covered with a very thick layer or sod, they were often indistinguishable from the surrounding area). The only thing in Icelandic culture which doesnt match dwarves is the height of the people (they are tall, but to be fair some of them are built like giant dwarves, or rather, mountains) and their seafaring nature. Blame the vikings. Oh and redish hair is a common trait..

Whamme
2007-01-24, 05:45 AM
Apparently the dwarves from Discworld are often likened to Jewish people (by fans, not Pratchett)

Well, yeah. It's pretty obvious, I think. 'Being a Dwarf is a religion' - their spirituality, culture and religion all seemed modelled on Jews.

The Fifth Elephant and (especially) Thud are where this happens, but there are a few details from earlier he incorporated into this envisaging.

Thomas
2007-01-24, 07:12 AM
At the risk of being redundant, Scottish accents ARE British accents. Scotland is part of the British Isles, after all.

I'm under the impression it's not necessarily a good idea to tell everyone you may meet in England, Scotland, Ireland, etc. that they're "British," though, is it?


Incidentally, being that the only English person I've spoken to in a few years is from Sheffield, I often have a hard time of thinking of British accents as... well, "refined" or whatever.


Dammit, I was going to suggest Jewish dwarves!

As has been mentioned, Terry Pratchett did it already. His dwarves (in Ankh-Morpork, anyway) are very obviously (but tongue-in-cheek) modelled around the Jewish people, including their situation in the Middle Ages and various rumors and attitudes centering around them and his dwarves.


Finnish??! Are you serious? Finnish is not at all a course language.

Never heard a drunk Finn, I take it?

"Perrrkele! Saaaatana! Mää tapan sut!"

Admittedly, Finnish was also Tolkien's model for Elvish...

random11
2007-01-24, 08:36 AM
I was was wondering, am I the only one who's getting sick of the comic, beer-swilling, voiced by Scotty from Star Trek dwarves that seem to be the staple of the fantasy genre (including everything related to D&D) nowadays? I really miss the more serious dwarves from Tolkien. Granted, some of them (like Bombur) were occasionaly comical, but nothing like most dwarves today (or the movie version of Gimli). I'd like to hear anyone's ideas on dwarves that are somewhat different from the norm (and not just evil dwarves, I already know all about deurgar and derro). I'll even accept comic ideas, as long as they're different (my own idea is dwarves with english accents as in : "All right lads, we may have drawn bit of a nasty assignment, but the sooner we can take down this dragon, the sooner we can have tea!").:smallbiggrin:

In a campaign I created, I did something to handle exactly the problem you are describing, both for dwarfs and elfs.
btw, my campaingns are usually playable only by humans, you'll understand why after you'll read the description.

First, I told the players that as far as they know, dwarfs and elfs are EXACTLY like the stereotypes.
Hidden in my notes, were the real description of the race, and the real reasons for the stereotypes.

For example, ever wondered why a race will actually WANT to live underground where it is much harder to gather food and other resources?
Ever wondered why a race that lives in narrow tunnelf will use a weapon like an axe that requires a lot of space?

My dwarfs are sensetive to sunlight, and that is the basic source to all the stereotypes (and also a reason why a pc can't pick a dwarf as his race).
the cultural system placed the richer and important dwarfs deep in the tunnels, while the middle class and the poor are closer to the surface (and the sun).
The basic two types that come in contact with humans are the low ranked traders that trade with humans close to the surface (which explains the wealth and greed stereotype) and of course... the poor dwarfs that are forced to chop wood in the middle of the night (causing the dwarf with axe stereotype).

This is just a short summery of the details of course, there are many more stereotypes for both races that is handled in a similar way.

MrNexx
2007-01-24, 09:07 AM
I wouldn't say there's anything particularly "heavy" about Scottish or Germanic accents. Maybe one rarely hears women using them on American TV or something, though...

You ever heard Fiona Richey of NPR's "Thistle and Shamrock"? That's not a heavy accent... that's simply the most beautiful voice in the world... and I have told this to my wife with a smile on my face.


If I had to pick a coarse language for broody folk who dwell in near-constant darkness, consume copious amounts of alcohol, and think violence is a great pastime... Finnish, definitely. :smallwink:

Actually, I think a lot of punks would fit that pretty well, too. So we need some accent that simply sounds like incoherent shouting...


And Scotland can't be cold. Misty and drizzly, maybe, but it's far too south to be cold. The northernmost tip doesn't even reach the latitude of Helsinki...

My wife spent a summer on Gotland digging holes (while I was in Houston. Working in a kitchen.) The people there were complaining of the heat when it was in the 80s. In my corner of Muspelheim, the outside temperature was over 100, and then I was working over boiling chicken grease and vegetable oil in an un-air-conditioned kitchen (because the owners were cheap and absentee, and didn't get things fixed).

How much would an English teacher get paid in Helsinki?

Brauron
2007-01-24, 09:46 AM
"In Dwarven Homeland, Ale drinks YOU!!"

Telonius
2007-01-24, 10:36 AM
German can be very course, but if you ever heard a beautiful woman speak it, or a young child, you would have the exact opposite impression.


I definitely agree. There were a few really beautiful accents I heard when I studied in Tuebingen. Schwaebisch was a little harsh, but pleasant. I met a few people from Riesen that had this absolutely amazing accent; sounded like they were composing lyrics as they were speaking.

elliott20
2007-01-24, 10:41 AM
Hippy dwarves!!! Hippy dwarves with flowers... and butterfly wings... and prancing!... and free love and poetry... and cannabis!!

Free hippy dwarves for everyone!!!

oooo, I know!! Gay Dwarven Eye for the Straight Demi-human!!!

Fhaolan
2007-01-24, 10:43 AM
"In Dwarven Homeland, Ale drinks YOU!!"

In my campaign, one of the staples is Dwarven chewing ale. It comes in blocks, wrapped in brown paper.

My players have managed to avoid asking what precisely it is but they have put it to use, drugging a turtle dragon with it among other things.

Deus Mortus
2007-01-24, 10:48 AM
Insane tinkering dwarfs with a lot of explosives and who want to do massive damage, I give you Flintlocke (http://pc.gamespy.com/articles/578/578734p1.html), I think about playing him but instead of beer some "herbs" and a german accent, that is going to be so cool...

Hannes
2007-01-24, 10:55 AM
Real German and Scottish accents usually aren't all that heavy, no. The accents most frequently applied to dwarves are almost always on the heavy end of the spectrum, and sometimes well past it.

And speaking as an American, I'd say the reason that most of us don't have Finnish dwarves is that we couldn't imitate the accent to save our lives.

Scotland isn't cold, just rainy or foggy. I liked that about it, actually.


Well. I couldn't do the accent, of course. But I'd blow their arses off with some unexpected finnish xD

Fax Celestis
2007-01-24, 11:11 AM
oooo, I know!! Gay Dwarven Eye for the Straight Demi-human!!!

Absolutely perfect.

Turcano
2007-01-24, 01:27 PM
German can be very course, but if you ever heard a beautiful woman speak it, or a young child, you would have the exact opposite impression.

People get the impression of coarseness from German from two things:

Nazis screaming at people in movies and documentaries (in the former case, most of the actors may not even speak the language).
Arnold Schwarzenegger. (Schwarzenegger speaks with a Tyrolean accent, which is so coarse that other German speakers make fun of it.)In any case, most Americans probably don't know what a real German accent sounds like.

Folie
2007-01-24, 01:29 PM
As has been mentioned, Terry Pratchett did it already. His dwarves (in Ankh-Morpork, anyway) are very obviously (but tongue-in-cheek) modelled around the Jewish people, including their situation in the Middle Ages and various rumors and attitudes centering around them and his dwarves.

Also as has been mentioned (by me), Tolkien did it first - again, he based the structure of his dwarven language on the Semitic languages. In fact, I did a little more research and found out that he had this to say:


"The dwarves of course are quite obviously - wouldn't you say that in many ways they remind you of the Jews? Their words are Semitic obviously, constructed to be Semitic."
http://www.answers.com/topic/tolkien-and-racismPlus, he established his dwarves as minorities in Middle Earth - minorities who were considered to have a special relationship with their diety that no other peoples shared in, lived in enclaves scattered throughout the civilized world (and therefore never really assimilated into the dominant societies), and were often stereotyped by "outsiders" as secretive and greedy. Oh yeah, and the Elves actually hunted some of them. Pratchett did it already? Only because he was building off Tolkien!
[/rant]

I just remembered another dwarf character I came up with, also conceived for Shadowrun, who is pretty much a female version of Ze Mole from the South Park movie: a short, sardonic, beret-wearing, chain-smoking mercenary, who specializes in using shovels (both for digging and for whacking) and sabotage. I named her La Taupe, and I can't believe I forgot about her as quickly as I did.:smallfrown:

Telonius
2007-01-24, 01:31 PM
Well, there is Kissinger, but I think he's just kind of naturally gravelly-sounding. Looking like Emperor Palpatine doesn't help either.

Woot Spitum
2007-01-24, 01:35 PM
People get the impression of coarseness from German from two things:

Nazis screaming at people in movies and documentaries (in the former case, most of the actors may not even speak the language).
Arnold Schwarzenegger. (Schwarzenegger speaks with a Tyrolean accent, which is so coarse that other German speakers make fun of it.)In any case, most Americans probably don't know what a real German accent sounds like.

Little known fact: Most nazis in movies are played by British actors.:smallwink:

Matthew
2007-01-24, 04:15 PM
Also as has been mentioned (by me), Tolkien did it first - again, he based the structure of his dwarven language on the Semitic languages. In fact, I did a little more research and found out that he had this to say:

Plus, he established his dwarves as minorities in Middle Earth - minorities who were considered to have a special relationship with their diety that no other peoples shared in, lived in enclaves scattered throughout the civilized world (and therefore never really assimilated into the dominant societies), and were often stereotyped by "outsiders" as secretive and greedy. Oh yeah, and the Elves actually hunted some of them. Pratchett did it already? Only because he was building off Tolkien!


I wouldn't be inclined to agree with this at all. Semitic languages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semetic_languages) are a broad category. Dwarves aren't stereotyped "by outsiders" in Tolkien as being secretive and greedy. In exactly what way are they treated as a minority? Elves, Dwarves and Men are known to war with one another, it's no special case that Elves 'hunted them' on occasion.

Parallels can be drawn, but so can obvious disparities. Pratchett simply took these parallels and exaggerated them.

Caelestion
2007-01-24, 06:54 PM
*heh* Well, the Northern accents do tend to let themselves go a bit, but if anyone has heard Michael Caine speak in the original The Italian Job, Cockney is unbelievably "common". Northern accents usually make you sound tough and gritty and Southern accents can sometimes tend to make you sound somewhat thick.

"Oh, Ah can't read an' Ah can't write,
But that don' really ma'er,
'Cos I come from Gloucestershire,
An' I can drive a tra'or!"

("Oh, I can't read and I can't write,
But that doesn't really matter,
Because I come from Gloucestershire,
And I can drive a tractor.")

Turcano
2007-01-24, 07:24 PM
Little known fact: Most nazis in movies are played by British actors.:smallwink:

That's almost worse, in a way, seeing as how much more often Brits have dealings with Germans then Americans do (you know, what with the geographical proximity and political ties and all). So much for the "homogenization" of Europe.

goat
2007-01-24, 07:34 PM
Blonde dwarves with thick Australian accents that live in coastal caves and have a massive fear of coconuts. They like the sun, and walk around most of the time in brightly coloured shorts than show their position in the tribe. They're good at cliff climbing, hunt sea-birds and fish and so are adept with lighter weaponry than axes, and are lots thinner than normal dwarves.

Then have them engaged in a long standing war with a group of amazon women wearing coconut shell bras.

Flabbicus
2007-01-24, 07:36 PM
Little known fact: Most nazis in movies are played by British actors.:smallwink:

Uh, I thought it was German Jews who portrayed the most Nazi characters in films. I remember seeing it at a museum in Berlin. Something along the lines of "In 100 years historians will believe that the Nazis were a wholly Semitic group."


I could see dwarves having all kinds of crazy accents. Anyone tried applying a Southern accent to a dwarf? That could be funny.

Dark
2007-01-24, 07:59 PM
That's almost worse, in a way, seeing as how much more often Brits have dealings with Germans then Americans do (you know, what with the geographical proximity and political ties and all). So much for the "homogenization" of Europe.
I think it's similar to the way computers are treated in movies. The actors' job is not to correctly portray a German accent, it's to speak the way the viewers expect Nazis to speak in American movies.

Correctly portraying a German accent might not be relevant either, since usually the Nazis would be speaking German instead of accented English. It's only represented as English for the convenience of the audience, so they don't have to learn to read subtitles :)

(Also keep in mind that the accent in the 1940's might be significantly different than the way it sounds now. I know Dutch has changed a lot in those decades.)

Draz74
2007-01-24, 09:09 PM
Blonde dwarves with thick Australian accents that live in coastal caves and have a massive fear of coconuts. They like the sun, and walk around most of the time in brightly coloured shorts than show their position in the tribe. They're good at cliff climbing, hunt sea-birds and fish and so are adept with lighter weaponry than axes, and are lots thinner than normal dwarves.

Now, that's the kind of ideas I hoped to read on this thread. This is novel. Way to (partly) break the Euro-centric mold.

This isn't some veiled reference to anything, is it?

The_Werebear
2007-01-24, 09:50 PM
In one campaign setting I did, dwarves are mutated gnomes. The gnomes find them amusing enough to keep around as bodyguards and manual laborers, as well as selling their services as mercinary fighters.

Flabbicus
2007-01-24, 09:59 PM
Ooh, I just had a good idea. What about Mongol dwarves? Thin beards, obsessed with gold and tribute, brutal and ingenious combatants, and they are described as being slovenly barbarians, which could fit in with dwarves.

Suvarov454
2007-01-24, 10:02 PM
Blonde dwarves with thick Australian accents that live in coastal caves and have a massive fear of coconuts. They like the sun, and walk around most of the time in brightly coloured shorts than show their position in the tribe. They're good at cliff climbing, hunt sea-birds and fish and so are adept with lighter weaponry than axes, and are lots thinner than normal dwarves.

Oooh! How about basing your Dwarves on the Maori? THERE is a lawful, tradition-bound, insular (no pun intended!) culture that seems very hostile to outsiders. What's the first thing you do when you meet some strangers? YELL at them en masse and use the most agressive, frightening body language that you can think of!

Monkeyking
2007-01-24, 10:17 PM
Oooh! How about basing your Dwarves on the Maori? THERE is a lawful, tradition-bound, insular (no pun intended!) culture that seems very hostile to outsiders. What's the first thing you do when you meet some strangers? YELL at them en masse and use the most agressive, frightening body language that you can think of!

Wow that is wrong on so many levels.....The first thing that maoris do is actually meet people and describe their lineage. They then pass the sacredness to the otherside who then state why they are there and their lineage and so forth. The yelling and aggressive stance is usually for the tourists.......

anyway I have used an irish insane dwarven gladiator once. He wasn't funny in his eyes, but everyone else thought he was dangerous and peculiar?

Woot Spitum
2007-01-24, 10:27 PM
Now, that's the kind of ideas I hoped to read on this thread. This is novel. Way to (partly) break the Euro-centric mold.

This isn't some veiled reference to anything, is it?

I once played a halfling warlock with an east Indian accent.

I like the idea of dwarves with southern accents. It would be cool to go to the dwarven homeland and have everyone sound like they're in the movie "Gettysburg". Although I kinda would like elves to have southern accents. Maybe they both could have southern accents, and humans would get to sound like they were from New Jersey.:smallbiggrin:

TheThan
2007-01-24, 10:41 PM
That's fine by me. What really cheeses me off is the idea that you can get a dwarf to do anything as long as you add the phrase "Hooray beer!" to the end of it.

No, no, no

Dwarves don’t drink beer

Dwarves drink Mead (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mead)
Humans drink whisky, bourbon, scotch etc
Elves drink wine (or champagne)
Halfings drink cocktails
Orcs (and half-orcs) drink just about anything
Gnomes drink…. Well I dunno, some sort of gnomish concoction i guess.

Pirates drink rum and grog
Ninjas drink Sake

Woot Spitum
2007-01-24, 10:51 PM
I know that, and you know that, but far too many fantasy authors nowadays don't.:smallfurious:

Flabbicus
2007-01-24, 11:09 PM
[QUOTE=TheThan;1888003
Elves drink wine (or champagne)[/QUOTE]

The elves are french? It suddenly makes so much sense. The chaotic bent, the pomp and ceremony, the- I'm going to stop before I offend someone.

Amphimir Míriel
2007-01-25, 12:23 AM
And Scotland can't be cold. Misty and drizzly, maybe, but it's far too south to be cold. The northernmost tip doesn't even reach the latitude of Helsinki...

Scotland? not cold?? You are welcome to visit me down here in Mexico City :smallcool: , where we feel cold whenever we are below 10 degrees celsius... A few weeks ago we were like 3 degrees in the morning... brrr!


No, remember: All Elves Sound Like Sean Connery.

But, but... Sean Connery is scottish!

Anyway, back to Dwarves, we usually play them in spanish with a thick Texano accent, or maybe Spaniard... And no matter the language you use, no tavern scene is complete without the Discworld classic: A table full of drunk dwarves singing the dwarven classic song:

"Gold, Gold, Gold, Gold
Gold, Gold, Goooold!
Gold, Gold, Gold, Gold
Gold, Goooooooooold... Mine!!"

Telonius
2007-01-25, 10:18 AM
No, no, no

Dwarves don’t drink beer

Dwarves drink Mead (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mead)
Humans drink whisky, bourbon, scotch etc
Elves drink wine (or champagne)
Halfings drink cocktails
Orcs (and half-orcs) drink just about anything
Gnomes drink…. Well I dunno, some sort of gnomish concoction i guess.

Pirates drink rum and grog
Ninjas drink Sake

Mead? Honey wine? That's an Elvish drink if I ever saw one. I've had it before, and it's far too weak for the discerning dwarf. Dwarves almost certainly drink some sort of very dark beer-like beverage - Doppelbock, Imperial Stout, something like that. Maybe something like ouzo on special occasions.

The_Werebear
2007-01-25, 10:21 AM
Dwarves drink three parts fermented Black Pudding (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ooze.htm#blackPudding) and one part water. By the gallon.

MrNexx
2007-01-25, 10:26 AM
Mead? Honey wine? That's an Elvish drink if I ever saw one. I've had it before, and it's far too weak for the discerning dwarf. Dwarves almost certainly drink some sort of very dark beer-like beverage - Doppelbock, Imperial Stout, something like that. Maybe something like ouzo on special occasions.

I think both mead and beer are unlikely for dwarves, given their reliance on aboveground supplies... barley and hops for beer, honey for mead.

Traditional dwarven drinks would tend towards things brewed from tubers and other below-ground crops.

Fax Celestis
2007-01-25, 10:27 AM
Dwarves drink three parts fermented Black Pudding (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ooze.htm#blackPudding) and one part water. By the gallon.

And urinate liquids more alcoholic than 151 rum.

Fax Celestis
2007-01-25, 10:27 AM
I think both mead and beer are unlikely for dwarves, given their reliance on aboveground supplies... barley and hops for beer, honey for mead.

Traditional dwarven drinks would tend towards things brewed from tubers and other below-ground crops.

Soooo....potato vodka?

headwarpage
2007-01-25, 11:29 AM
I think both mead and beer are unlikely for dwarves, given their reliance on aboveground supplies... barley and hops for beer, honey for mead.

Traditional dwarven drinks would tend towards things brewed from tubers and other below-ground crops.

Well, even tubers are really aboveground crops. I mean, it's not like the dwarves are tunneling up under farms and harvesting them (though that would be hilarious). Somebody up on the surface is still growing these things.

This raises another question - what do dwarves eat? Assuming there's no magic or strange underground energy source involved, photosynthesis pretty much has to be the base source of food energy for the dwarven population. So dwarves are probably trading for surface foods, or farming near the entrances to their tunnels, supplementing that with mushrooms grown in the dwarven sewer caverns (ugh, but dwarves are hardcore like that). So they can trade for or grow beer ingredients too.

Dwarves drink barleywine (beer at ~15% abv), and a wide variety of distilled spirits. Mead is strong enough (also ~15%), but it's too elven.

Thomas
2007-01-25, 11:31 AM
Dwarfholds pretty much always have an aboveground part (usually a citadel). They presumably grow crops up there.

Dwarves that actually live in the Underdark (not that uncommon in Faerûn) probably eat rothé, lichen, mushrooms, and so on.

Mushroom beer.

elliott20
2007-01-25, 12:01 PM
sigh, i guess nobody likes my idea of having some gay dwarves... so much for my next idea "brokeback dwarven mines"

MrNexx
2007-01-25, 12:02 PM
Yes, but tubers are good crops if you have a limited space above ground; they grow a large amount of food in a relatively limited space.

headwarpage
2007-01-25, 12:23 PM
That's true, and it fits well with dwarven flavor. But the idea of dwarves as some kind of beer-drinking, axe-weilding gopher that steals root crops from unsuspecting farmers is absolutely hilarious. "Fetch me my crossbow, Ma! We got us a clan o' dwarves in the beet field again!"

MaxKaladin
2007-01-25, 12:25 PM
Dwarves as Yosimite Sam?

I'm not sure where the Scottish Dwarf stereotype started. When I was younger, I used to imagine dwarves with German accents, but after Lord of the Rings and playing World of Warcraft, I've got Scottish Dwarves stuck in my brain now.

MaxKaladin
2007-01-25, 12:27 PM
That's true, and it fits well with dwarven flavor. But the idea of dwarves as some kind of beer-drinking, axe-weilding gopher that steals root crops from unsuspecting farmers is absolutely hilarious. "Fetch me my crossbow, Ma! We got us a clan o' dwarves in the beet field again!"
:smallbiggrin:

Make sure to give them upper-crust English accents and make them very polite to each other....

mikeejimbo
2007-01-25, 12:30 PM
Dwarfholds pretty much always have an aboveground part (usually a citadel). They presumably grow crops up there.

Dwarves that actually live in the Underdark (not that uncommon in Faerûn) probably eat rothé, lichen, mushrooms, and so on.

Mushroom beer.

Dang, I was going to say mushrooms.

Oh well, I'm too slow.

Telonius
2007-01-25, 01:25 PM
:smallbiggrin:

Make sure to give them upper-crust English accents and make them very polite to each other....

Shall we?

Surely!:smallcool:

MaxKaladin
2007-01-25, 02:24 PM
Shall we?

Surely!:smallcool:Indubitably!
:smallsmile:

Caelestion
2007-01-25, 02:46 PM
Jolly good show, eh what? Dashed bad form, old fruit! Tallyho!

Subotei
2007-01-25, 03:00 PM
Why axes all the time? The weapon of a woodland people. Hammers yes, or picks. As mining hill folk surely the Welsh accent should feature. The thought of a Dwarf male voice quior setting the hills alive with the sound of music fills me with a cold dread....

MaxKaladin
2007-01-25, 03:13 PM
Jolly good show, eh what? Dashed bad form, old fruit! Tallyho!Positively ripping! :smallsmile:

Caelestion
2007-01-25, 03:16 PM
*snort* "Ripping" was out of date by the time Enid Nesbitt was using it :)

Gotta love the Welsh miners though - Dwarves singing about their Pot Noodles is hilarious!

Piedmon_Sama
2007-01-25, 03:17 PM
I'll never be able to get behind the predisposition to footnote demihuman races as parodies/caricatures of existing human cultures.... in the case of Elves and Dwarves, I'd suggest that human society should be portrayed as descendant of both rather than vice versa, seeing as they are usually held as the more ancient races....

I've only ever played one Dwarven character, who spoke with a pronounced middle-American accent (which, to us Americans, is the "accentless" speech most newscasters and stereotypical government agents use.)

Matthew
2007-01-25, 03:30 PM
Why axes all the time? The weapon of a woodland people. Hammers yes, or picks. As mining hill folk surely the Welsh accent should feature. The thought of a Dwarf male voice quior setting the hills alive with the sound of music fills me with a cold dread....

Probably for cutting down trees to feed the forge and support the mines...

Frosty Flake
2007-01-25, 03:32 PM
how about Italian dwarves, taken out of things like Romeo and Juliet or the Godfather? It already matches dwarven penchant for holding a grudge... and they could all say a similar prayer before getting sloshed after a good day avenging vandettas and extorting gnomish merchants.

Our Father who art in ?
Hallowed by thy glass
Thy kindom come, thy will be done
On Earth as it is in the lounges
Give us this day our daily splash
Forgive us our hangovers
As we forgive all those who continue to hangover against us
And lead us not into temptation
But deliver from evil and someone you must all ride home

Telonius
2007-01-25, 03:55 PM
Our Father who art in ?


Who art behind the bar.

MrNexx
2007-01-25, 03:58 PM
I did wind up writing some Erotic Dwarven poetry at one point... one was highly suggestive, and could either be about a woman or a weapon. The other was simply a rip on Shakespeare...

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-01-25, 04:03 PM
I believe I speak for everyone when I say-

". . ."

Caelestion
2007-01-25, 04:07 PM
Give us this day our daily splash
As we forgive all those who continue to hangover against us
And lead us not into temptation
But deliver from evil and someone you must all ride home
Give us this day our daily beer
As we forgive those who do not tolerate our hangovers
And lead us not into Alcholics Anonymous
But deliver us all safely back home.

MrNexx
2007-01-25, 04:33 PM
I believe I speak for everyone when I say-

". . ."

You know you're curious.

Genome
2007-01-25, 04:34 PM
No, no, no
Gnomes drink…. Well I dunno, some sort of gnomish concoction i guess.
Gnomes drink motor oil.

As for Dwarven accents, I just started a new campaign, and my Dwarves will have Italian-American accents. At least one Gnome will have an Indian accent, and Elves will most likely have a German accent. I haven't figured out what Halfling accent I want to use yet. Probably French, though Canadian might be entertaining.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-01-25, 04:35 PM
Yes, a little. But also mortified.

Genome
2007-01-25, 04:36 PM
I'm definitely curious. Did you actually read it to your players?

MrNexx
2007-01-25, 04:40 PM
I'm definitely curious. Did you actually read it to your players?

No. Just posted it on a mailing list for some friends of mine. Similar to my work on "Baby Got Beard"

Ahhh, found it. I'll post it on the Cranky Gamer, to avoid posting problems here (the first is very risque; follow the link in my sig to the livejournal).

Dervag
2007-01-25, 04:50 PM
I think both mead and beer are unlikely for dwarves, given their reliance on aboveground supplies... barley and hops for beer, honey for mead.
Traditional dwarven drinks would tend towards things brewed from tubers and other below-ground crops.Or possibly petroleum distillates (YUCK!).

"I've drunk Arbolgan moonshine. I've drunk Boronian vodka. I've drunk the fermented mare's milk of the plains nomads. I've even drunk that stuff that the T'Chadi warrior clans claim that they brew from panther sweat.

"But never, in my entire life, have I drunk anything as nasty as dwarven rock liquor.

"The stuff will put hair on your chest, that's for sure... and the women drink it too!"


Why axes all the time? The weapon of a woodland people. Hammers yes, or picks.Umm... because it's an effective weapon?

By the same argument, we'd expect to see swords only in the hands of jungle-dwellers because only jungle-dwellers have a use for machetes. Most cultures have some weapons that are related to their primary tools, so I'd expect plenty of dwarven pick and hammer users, but there are often other weapons that are chosen for symbolic significance or effectiveness in battle, like swords or, for dwarves, axes.

MrNexx
2007-01-25, 04:54 PM
Actually, the Dragonlance book appropriately titled "Hammer and Axe" went into this; Hill dwarves favor axes, mountain dwarves favor hammers, because they're more generally useful in their home environments.

Hurlbut
2007-01-25, 05:30 PM
And both weapons are simply top heavy.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-25, 05:44 PM
No. Just posted it on a mailing list for some friends of mine. Similar to my work on "Baby Got Beard"

Ahhh, found it. I'll post it on the Cranky Gamer, to avoid posting problems here (the first is very risque; follow the link in my sig to the livejournal).

Awesome. Can I read it in the original Dwarf?

MrNexx
2007-01-25, 05:58 PM
Awesome. Can I read it in the original Dwarf?

I'm not THAT ambitious... though I did write a 17-page epic poem about running the adventure "Fires of Dis"....

And axes and hammers are not "top heavy". They're designed to extend the swinging arm. Their real beauty is when they're used two-handed.

Hurlbut
2007-01-25, 06:13 PM
I'm not THAT ambitious... though I did write a 17-page epic poem about running the adventure "Fires of Dis"....

And axes and hammers are not "top heavy". They're designed to extend the swinging arm. Their real beauty is when they're used two-handed.
No, what I meant by top heavy is that mainly a big part of their weight is in the weapon head which is right at top of the haft which is same for axe and hammer and also the pick.

Electric_Monkey
2007-01-25, 06:20 PM
Given that my introduction to D&D was via the Baldur's Gate Series I tended to see gnomes as having an Eastern European feel - and drinking overly strong spirits distilled from turnips.

Dwarves being generally Scottish/Northern and Elves very Home Counties also seemed natural to me.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-25, 06:34 PM
I'm not THAT ambitious... though I did write a 17-page epic poem about running the adventure "Fires of Dis"....

Oh neat. I wrote a 187 line poem about one of our adventures, and it was very bad. But it was supposed to be. It was an April Fool's Quest and I was an Orc Bard.

goat
2007-01-25, 07:34 PM
I always thought that dwarves as miners would be used to swinging picks and hammers, and so the use of axes in warfare would just feel more natural to them.

Of course, axes are much easier/faster to make than swords and would probably use less material, unless they're stupidly ornate and oversized or metal hafted. Maybe the dwarves have a secret project going on that's using most of the ore they mine and taking up lots of the time of their smiths. Some huge device that they're building with Gnomish help that will carve its way through the earth like a bullet through butter.

Maybe they're under threat of a huge rust-monster invasion and they're having to use a large proportion of their iron to satiate the beasts they can't kill.

Or they're actually really crap miners and smiths, who've taken over the tunnels left by another race that they slaughtered some time ago. They have a skill with noticing subtle changes in stone from years of experience avoiding the traps left in the tunnels they took over.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-01-25, 07:40 PM
Heheheh.

Mo' like dwarves are minors!

Count Chumleigh
2007-01-25, 10:59 PM
Although I've never had a problem with the Scottish stereotype myself, most dwarves I've encountered in playing tend to sound like John Rhys Davies and it does get old. Ironically, I usually switch to a Scottish or Irish accent when I want something different in my dwarves. However, over dinner one day, some friends and I came up with a very different, and potentially very disturbing take on dwarves that both embraces and distances itself from the dwarf stereotypes we all know and love, or at least know. Some of these are lovingly adapted from Terry Pratchett's Discworld dwarves, and I make no claims of creation or ownership with regards to them:


All dwarves have beards. All of them, all the time. Much as humans have symbiotic relationships with intestinal bacteria, so too the dwarves with their beards, to the point where they are now practically the same organism. The beard leeches nutrients from the dwarf's ale and mining leavings, filters out harmful dust particles and airborn pathogens, provides warmth in the winter and shade in the summer, and keeps the pedipalps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedipalp)concealed and protected. In many ways, the symbiotic relationship between a dwarf and his (see 4, below) beard is responsible for his +2 racial bonus to Constitution and saves vs. poison.
To account for dwarves' long lives, we decided that dwarves start out a lot smaller than they are fully-grown, and simply molt. Specifically, dwarves hatch as inch-long larvae with a properly-proportioned dwarf's head--complete with beard and spiked helmet--during which time they are effectively helpless and can only communicate insofar as they can speak the following words: "Gold," "Ale," "Harumph!," and "Rally-Ho." As larvae, dwarves molt no less than fifteen times in as many years before spinning their cocoons, signalling the beginning of their decade-long chrysalis stage. After emerging from their chrysalis, dwarves undergo standard education and societal indoctrination.
While worker-dwarves--i.e., the "standard" dwarf presented in the Player's Handbook--are born with two functional hands, dwarves of the warrior caste are born with an axe-shaped growth in place of where their right hand would be. The left hand is normal, and may be used for grasping and manipulating objects, typically another axe. The queen and drone castes of dwarves are also born with two hands, but can be distinguished from worker-dwarves by their overdeveloped ovipositors (in the queens' cases) or antenae (in the drones' cases).
When it comes to gender and sexuality, dwarves are a confused lot. For starters, all dwarves look like short, broad-shouldered, bearded men with chainmail, spiked helms, and battleaxes; speak in gruff, baritone voices; and refer to all other dwarves as "him." (Indeed, the dwarven language has no feminine pronoun.) Despite these decidedly masculine characteristics, however, dwarf society is almost perfectly divided evenly between males and females. Dwarven courtship is therefore a delicate ritual mostly consisting of a series of carefully-worded questions designed to determine whether the other dwarf is a male or female. To simplify and codify matters, most dwarven settlements issue a manual of acceptable courtship rituals and mating procedures. These manuals are cast in metal or chiseled from stone, can weigh upwards of three-hundred pounds each, and read like stereo instructions.


Well, that's all I can remember. I hope you enjoyed it--I certainly know we had fun with them.

Cheers,
Count Chumleigh

Folie
2007-01-25, 11:36 PM
Ha ha! That reminds me of Mulch Diggums from the Artemis Fowl books.

...Actually, Mulch is a pretty good character concept.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulch_Diggums

Count Chumleigh
2007-01-25, 11:51 PM
Ha! Thanks for the Mulch link, Folie. Much appreciated.

Cheers,
--Count Chumleigh

mikeejimbo
2007-01-26, 12:16 AM
Wait, but if there is a queen caste, shouldn't she be the only viable female? And shouldn't she just mate with the drones?

Count Chumleigh
2007-01-26, 12:54 AM
Wait, but if there is a queen caste, shouldn't she be the only viable female? And shouldn't she just mate with the drones?

True enough, and in the early days, when dwarves much more closely resembled their wasplike ancestors, this was indeed the case. Nowadays, however, dwarves are much closer to mammals in physiology, and even workers can breed.
You know, it actually makes a sick form of sense to have these bizarro-dwarves be distantly descended from Formians, doesn't it? Formians are Lawful creatures with strictly-regimented societies who ought to live in underground tunnels (because they're ants), and dwarves are lawful creatures with strictly-regimented societies who also live in underground tunnels. Oh, my. This could either be the start of something beautiful or something terrifying. I must sleep on this, then decide if this "Formian dwarf" subrace is something that needs statting out.

Cheers,
--Count Chumleigh

mikeejimbo
2007-01-26, 01:36 AM
You know what? I love Dwarfs and ants, and I wonder if you've hit something important.

Mike_G
2007-01-26, 01:47 AM
I wouldn't say there's anything particularly "heavy" about Scottish or Germanic accents. Maybe one rarely hears women using them on American TV or something, though...

If I had to pick a coarse language for broody folk who dwell in near-constant darkness, consume copious amounts of alcohol, and think violence is a great pastime... Finnish, definitely. :smallwink:

And Scotland can't be cold. Misty and drizzly, maybe, but it's far too south to be cold. The northernmost tip doesn't even reach the latitude of Helsinki...

That's great. Spoken like a true Finn.

"Scotland can't be cold! Those weak Sallies get to see the sun year round. We wish we had balmy Scottish weather."

My Grandmother is Finnish, and I can so see her saying that.

Woot Spitum
2007-01-26, 11:28 AM
Interesting idea, dwarves with insectoid roots. They could even have a mild sort of hive mind that could explain why banishment is considered a more cruel punishment than death for dwarves. Maybe they are an offshoot of Formorians who originally broke away in opposition to the Formorians goal of conquering the multiverse. It would create some interesting conflict, on one hand the dwarves actively oppose the Formorians, but on the other hand the most other races are suspicious of the dwarves' secrecy. Rumors of their insectoid traits would lead some to erroneously believe that the dwarves are either actively aiding the Formorians, or are actually a special caste of Formorians themselves. And if the Formorians begin to start creating a caste in order to give those rumors creedance and undermine the dwarves...

GuesssWho
2007-01-27, 06:07 PM
Jesus, this could be big.
Homebrew this stuff, man!

Aimbot
2007-01-27, 06:33 PM
I just played a dwarf who played with the stereotypes a bit. Sadly he was done in by the most fatal evil a player character could ever know. This of course is the poor attention span of the flighty DM.
(I'm typing, more to come)
He was a LG Dwarven Defender in a low magic campaign who ran afoul of a goblin shaman at a low level. He was a relatively well off son of an unapologetically overbearing father. He got along a lot better with his Uncle, who was a legendary smith. Early in life (around level three) he was employed and successful in border patrols. Shortly after his coming of age (where he was granted a Dwarvencraft adamantium D. waraxe by his favored uncle) he was tasked with taking a couple of fledgling fighters out to deal with a goblin encampment. The Goblins were lead, unfortunately, by an extremely potent (for the setting) shaman. Despite having the neophyte fighters to look after, Jormund pressed on rashly. They eventually came face to face with the shaman and charged in. The shaman cast a cone of cold, which only slowed J down a bit, and was in the middle of casting a second when J cleaved the goblin nearly in two. For some reason (perhaps due to wild magic or a disrupted spell just barely released) the spell had no effect on Jormund other than the complete and permanent removal of every hair on his body. If this wasn't enough, when he finally turned he saw both of his charges stone dead and frozen behind him. Jormund was able to make a days progress back to the hold stoically. But upon nightfall the combined shock of losing his hair, realizing he was responsible for the death of two dwarves, and witnessing the release of power he never even thought had existed quickly drove him mad. In his addled mind the loss of his hair was a sign from Moradin that he had lost favor. Unwilling to face his father and the judgment of his peers he stripped himself of all his possessions barring his marvelous axe, which he could not bare to leave, and his helmet, to disguise his disgrace. He charged naked into the wilderness to seek death. For nearly two decades he would barrel into combat with any beast or bandit he could find, and legends grew of a naked, mad dwarf in the mountains wearing nothing but a helmet stuffed with straw. He survived by sheer grit, despite little to no know how for survival. Eventually he was saved from near death by an ancient and famous Dwarven Defender who had chosen a retirement in the wilderness. He slowly consoled Jormund from madness and made him realize that the only thing he did that was truly worthy of shame was the abandoning of his people, and leaving two dwarven corpses to rot n the wilderness. Vowing never to obscure his face again Jormund went into the world with the sole desire of redeeming himself through charity to his race. He was not quite ready to face his father or his clan, but instead decided to seek his uncle, who was said to be wandering in the wild and forbidden eastern badlands.

Count Chumleigh
2007-01-27, 07:22 PM
Well, I've rested on it, and I've come to the conclusion that I pretty much have to stat these Formian Dwarves out. It's going to be a while before I can do it, though, since I've got a major assignment that needs doing, but the Formian Dwarves will make their appearance on the Homebrew board in a few days' time.

Cheers,
--Count Chumleigh