[PF] Help keep my sorcerer alive.

[CGNefarious]

So through certain events my sorc has become pretty vulnerable. At level 6 he's got an AC of 11 (+1 Ring of Protection) and 39 HP. Being the "mage" even though there are three casters in the group he tends to get targeted first. I'm now suspecting that's it's going to be pretty difficult to keep him alive.

I've got some of the obvious things to keep him safe. Mage Armor. Shield. Resist Energy. I even have a 1/day use of dimension door through a magic item. My initiative is +10 so I normally go first, so that's good. But what else can I do to keep this guy relatively safe? Once I get to level 8 I'll have Emergency Force Shield, but until then I'm worried. Any suggestions?

[holywhippet]

Mirror image can help if you have it. Fly will keep you safe from melee attacks and if you combine that with protection from arrows it will take magic of some sort to hurt you.

How the heck did you get an AC of 11? 10 is baseline so you'd have to have no DEX bonus at all.

[Juntao112]

So through certain events my sorc has become pretty vulnerable. At level 6 he's got an AC of 11 (+1 Ring of Protection) and 39 HP. Being the "mage" even though there are three casters in the group he tends to get targeted first. I'm now suspecting that's it's going to be pretty difficult to keep him alive.

I've got some of the obvious things to keep him safe. Mage Armor. Shield. Resist Energy. I even have a 1/day use of dimension door through a magic item. My initiative is +10 so I normally go first, so that's good. But what else can I do to keep this guy relatively safe? Once I get to level 8 I'll have Emergency Force Shield, but until then I'm worried. Any suggestions?

Alter Self. False Life. Obscuring Mist.

[Chester]

Upgrade that ring.

Cloak of Displacement. Stock up on defensive potions. Get items to boost your dexterity.

[CombatOwl]

So through certain events my sorc has become pretty vulnerable. At level 6 he's got an AC of 11 (+1 Ring of Protection) and 39 HP. Being the "mage" even though there are three casters in the group he tends to get targeted first. I'm now suspecting that's it's going to be pretty difficult to keep him alive.

I've got some of the obvious things to keep him safe. Mage Armor. Shield. Resist Energy. I even have a 1/day use of dimension door through a magic item. My initiative is +10 so I normally go first, so that's good. But what else can I do to keep this guy relatively safe? Once I get to level 8 I'll have Emergency Force Shield, but until then I'm worried. Any suggestions?

Welcome to being a low level caster?

Alternately, go buy a +con item and put him in some light mithril armor.

[grarrrg]

Alternately, go buy a +con item and put him in some light mithril armor.

There is no Metal armor with a low enough ASF for Mithril to get you to 0%.

On the bright side, there IS the Armored Kilt (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/armor), and Haramaki (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/armor/eastern-armor-and-shields) (eastern) which have 0% spell failure to start with.

[andreww]

Invisibility or Mirror Image are probably your go to defences at this level combined with staying right at the back. Invisibility is best if you are summoning otherwise Mirror Image.

I might invest in a Wand of Mage Armour and one of Shield to avoid having to have them as spells known. Shield certainly as the duration of Mage Armour will be much better as a cast spell. Avoid expensive AC boosting magic items at this stage, they wont do much for you. I wouldnt do down the Cloak of Displacement route as it takes up the same slot as Resistance.

Ultimately however attack is your best form of defence. With +10 Initiative you should be able to land your preferred form of control before the enemy gets to act.

[eastmabl]

**retracted**

[Asrrin]

Is the twilight property in PF? Twilight Mithril Chainshirt has 0% ASF.

Mage Armor will get you +4, Alter Self can get you at least a +6 from Troglodyte.

A Mithril buckler will give you a shield bonus and leave you free to cast.

[andreww]

Is the twilight property in PF? Twilight Mithril Chainshirt has 0% ASF.

Mage Armor will get you +4, Alter Self can get you at least a +6 from Troglodyte.

A Mithril buckler will give you a shield bonus and leave you free to cast.
Twilight is not in PF.

Alter self and in fact all of the polymorph spells give you fixed benefits, no more monster manual trawling. Alter self only gives you a small bonus to Dex.

[Spore]

Basically like this:
Cat's Grace +2 AC, Mage Armor +4, Shield +4 is 20 AC. Reduce Person.

Grease, Sleep, Slow, Web keeps people off of you.

Enlarge Person, Haste keeps your melees in the way of harm.

Fly, Invisibility is pretty bad-add for negating 80% of standard melee enemies.

[CGNefarious]

I was going to take Mirror Image but decided to go with Resist Energy instead. I felt like some protection from being one-shot by a fireball/lightning bolt would be nice.

My character was aged 40 years through magic which can't be undone, even by a wish or miracle. It's pretty inconvenient, but it's what he get's for making rash decisions.

I think the Con belt is a good idea, but I've got to wait until the party has more gold. I think I have a significant portion of the party wealth as is.

[Corlindale]

Resist Energy is a nice spell, but the main problem is that you really have to know what to expect before it's useful defensively.
Thus, it is invaluable when heading into the red dragon's lair, but not as great for day-to-day adventuring. Great when you choose fire and it actually is a fireball you get hit with, but not as great when the enemy caster picks lightning bolt.

Mirror Image is almost always worth having, on the other hand. I once played a 3.5 Warmage for 20 levels straight and Mirror Image was pretty much the only defensive spell I had. It saved my life so many times I cannot even count it.

[ericgrau]

24 hour false life should be your number one choice by far, followed by 24 hour mage armor. Saved me countless times. A lesser rod of extend spell can help save spell slots. A distant 7th should be anything costing you a standard action when the danger has arrived. Either you won't have it up when you get surprise attacked as it sits useless and uncast in your spell list, or you'll blow your first turn on it. Or worse your first two turns on them. And then you become far less effective for the party. I've also seen these things happen countless time. I have also seen others who loved mirror image and it did work, but they didn't do much to the enemy either.

Your first combat turn should be on something actually useful to decrease damage to the entire party. Like web or sleet storm. Or to contribute to rapidly killing foes before they can attack like with a haste or fireball. Shield, resist energy and cat's grace are truly horrible, while mirror image and displacement are still pretty bad. Ditto for escaping with dimension door as it takes uncommon circumstances to have a totally safe place with a clear shot at foes. See above again on actually contributing.

Fly is ok but it still eats a turn. Levitate may be better because it covers the same basic purpose, it can rescue allies and plot points too thanks to its range, and it's easier to get 2nd level slots. Or if those are tight you might even get a couple scrolls instead. Even then I'd probably safe it for a rare 2nd or 3rd buff round or for emergencies. Meaning a couple scrolls may be the better option rather than actually learning it.

You can buy 1-2 scrolls of shield and protection from evil in case you get lots of time to buff. But even then they'd be lower priority than other spells like haste.

[Corlindale]

To clarify, I don't recommend casting Mirror Image or similar once combat has already started. But I do think it's realistic to have some 1 min/level buffs active before the encounter.
This is of course dependent on circumstances, but if you either move around in a dangerous area or are preparing to ambush specific enemies, it will be quite possible to have even the short duration buffs active pre-combat. This is especially true of low level buffs - soon you'll have plenty of 1st and second level spells to spare, and then it won't be a huge issue to burn a couple of Shield spells during a dungeon-crawl.

But of course there will be situations where you won't have your short buffs up, which is why a good Con score cannot be neglected either.

Only in very rare circumstances would I suggest casting something like Mirror Image once combat has already started. Here I agree with ericgrau that you'll almost always be better off trying to take out or lock down your opponents directly, helping both yourself and your party at once.

[Hopeless]

Fight defensively.

Seriously this has saved my halfling sorceror's life quite a bit which was by the time I stopped running her was a Sorceror/Rogue 5th/1st admittedly under 3.0 rules back when Shield granted +7 to your AC rather than +4.

At 1st level only had access to the Shield spell and an occasional Mage Armour Scroll until 4th level.
Was allowed to swap out the Familar ability for a bonus feat and chose Extra Spell.

The Paladin's player snatched the +1 ring when I tried to give it to the Monk (he claimed nobody wanted it but clad in Full Plate and Shield he was the last person in the party with an AC problem) so my character had Dex 16 (+3), halfling (+1 due to Size) so a base of 14 with Shield used as first spell when combat was insued and later on thanks to the Extend Spell feat used Mage Armour that lasts 8 hours per use by using a 2nd level spell slot and 4 hours normally.

As for suggestions Mirror Image was suggested by my group to me many times, I was thinking of Protection from Evil since currently also has Eschew Material since that grants +2 AC as well as other benefits but fighting defensively may only grant +2 AC for a -4 to hit it does add up.

[Killer Angel]

So through certain events my sorc has become pretty vulnerable. At level 6 he's got an AC of 11 (+1 Ring of Protection) and 39 HP. Being the "mage" even though there are three casters in the group he tends to get targeted first. I'm now suspecting that's it's going to be pretty difficult to keep him alive.

I've got some of the obvious things to keep him safe. Mage Armor. Shield. Resist Energy.

First of all, you should have Always active your mage armor. It lasts 1 hour/lev, so with a couple you'll cover basically all the traveling day (or: 1 with extend spell).
After that, you probably only need one defensive spell, to cast on the fly (invisib. or mirror image)


My initiative is +10 so I normally go first, so that's good.

Without dex bonuses? :smallconfused:

[andreww]

Without dex bonuses? :smallconfused:
I would imagine improved initiative for +4, scorpion familiar from arcane bloodline for +4 and +2 from the reactionary trait.

[Enguebert]

Being the "mage" even though there are three casters in the group he tends to get targeted first.

Why are you targeted first ? Because you look like a mage and other don't ?
Only smart opponent would go after a mage

You can try not to look like a mage. Disguise yourself as an half-orc and carry a large axe and wear some primitive clothes and people will think you are a barbarian :-) (do not wear armor, do not use the axe :smallwink:)

Let other players be in front/behind you so opponent cannot melee you (or at least should give AoO to other pary member)

Have 2 dogs with you (one of each side). They can protect you and occupy space. Monster summoning is also good to fill squares around you (this protect only from melee, but this helps)

[CombatOwl]

There is no Metal armor with a low enough ASF for Mithril to get you to 0%.

So? 5% asf isn't that big of a deal. Arcane armor training can eventually deal with it anyway.

[andreww]

So? 5% asf isn't that big of a deal. Arcane armor training can eventually deal with it anyway.
Arcane Armour Training is a terrible idea as you first have to gain Light Armour Proficiency. Also it gives you at most a +1AC over Bracers of Armour or +3AC over just wearing a Haramaki.

[Segev]

Dimension Door and/or Fly to get out of the reach of melee enemies, then Wind Wall to stop arrows. You'll need to watch out for enemy spellcasters, still, though.

[Diarmuid]

Stop looking like a mage and stop going first.

If you're the first guy to go and you're the one lobbing around fireballs or buffing your party, then anyone worth a damn is going to target you first.

Start carrying a big ol' sword and get some armor, or at least make it look like you're wearing some armor (disguise self?).

[Killer Angel]

I would imagine improved initiative for +4, scorpion familiar from arcane bloodline for +4 and +2 from the reactionary trait.

Ultimate magic, right? I tend to forget that one...

(BTW: to go first also at first levels is good, but with arcane bloodline, I would take improved initiative as the bonus feat at 7th level... 'til that moment, i tend to have a mere +4 for reactionary trait and dex.)

[Blyte]

go first(improved initiative, scorpion familiar, noble scion of war, reactionary) and control the enemy (web, sleet storm, pit, grease, stinking cloud, glitter dust, etc..) or defensive buff (vanish, mirror image, levitate, fly, spider climb, expeditious retreat, resist energy, etc..) or use an illusion to hide you. also increase your health pool (toughness, con item, and prebuff false life, it has a 1hr/lvl duration)

[CGNefarious]

Yep. Scorpion + Improved Initiative + Reactionary. So you're saying I shouldn't go first as a mage? Strange, I always though it was the opposite.

And the general consensus is that shield is pretty useless? It's an hour long buff and if I know we're going into a fight it should last the entire time.

As for trying to look like a barbarian, it would not fit my character's personality at all. He doesn't really dress like a mage either, more just like a noble in really fancy clothes. Anything less he would consider below him. While it might be a good idea, I don't want to do anything contrary to my character just because I as a player know it's a good idea.

I've got a lesser rod of quicken, so hypothetically I can take out a large number of people in one round. I'm playing one of those bad blaster type casters, with a smidgen of battlefield control, so I should be able to contribute to the fight pretty well if I don't spend the entire encounter just trying to stay alive. We've got two healers, but my cleric tends to do more damage to me than not. Damn channel negative energy. I'm going to keep mage armor up all day from not on, and try to find other good long duration defense spells. I would have picked up web if not for resist energy, but I can still get it next level.

Thank you guys for your advice. I feel like I've got a much better idea on how to keep my caster alive now.

[Killer Angel]

And the general consensus is that shield is pretty useless? It's an hour long buff and if I know we're going into a fight it should last the entire time

Shield (which is only 1 min/lev, BTW) isn't useless, but as a sorcerer, you must choose carefully your spells.
Mage armor, shield, invisibility, mirror image... you cannot have 'em all, or you'll fill your precious slots with only defensive spells.
Mage armor lasts longer and you get invisibility from the bloodline, and mirror image is frankly better than shield.

[OverdrivePrime]

Definitely continue to go first. But if you don't feel confident that you can either shut down or one-shot the biggest enemy threat to you, don't use a big flashy spell. Instead buff your team or adjust the battlefield (drop a fog cloud/stinking cloud/solid fog) to allow your allies to reposition and soften up the enemy. When you're ready, unleash hell.