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View Full Version : Another Werewolf:TA Question (ya I'm back)



FtWorthDan
2014-01-19, 07:55 PM
{WARNING: None of this will likely make sense if you've never played a PnP or other LARP type game. If you need any clarification let me know.}

Ok, we've found another problem which has divided our group down the center. This one is important because it's fundamentally deciding how powerful our players are.

Bidding/Losing Traits in challenges.

The book is very specific on PVP challenges, all the players agree on these rules, however, the problem is Static challenges(Player vs Reality).

The book is almost purposefully vague...

I'll use Jam Technology as the Example, as it's the gift which has proven most troublesome, both to players and STs alike.

Jam Technology : Homid Basic Gift (MET Laws of the Wild Revised)
This gift allows you to disable technological devices. "Technology" in this case extends to all tools, though it's harder to break simple tools. Spend one gnosis trait and make a static social challenge, the number of traits depending on the nature of the device.

Traits/Complexity of Device
4: computers
6: telephone
8: cars
9: guns
10: knives

If the challenge succeeds, all devices of the target complexity and higher within 50 feet cease to work for one turn, plus an additional turn for each mental trait the garou spends. Affected devices remain unchanged but inert, and resume working when the jamming wears off.


That is the gift (the table is abbreviated but it's not important) in its entirety. Now the problem comes from running the challenge.

Everyone agrees what happens if you win the challenge, you spent a gnosis, everything goes off without a hitch.

OUR problem is, what happens if you fail.

You lose one trait, your one gnosis and are free to do it again next turn?
That's the thinking of half our group, because we use MET rock paper scissors rules for challenges and not dice rolls and successes. Essentially they believe that because they have 18 mentals (at rank 5) they're down to 17 and free to try again next turn because it's a 10 trait challenge and they have 18 traits and therefore automatically win on a tie, and a loss means 1 trait.

The other half of our group believes the danger in using the gift is right there in the table. In other words, if you fail against a challenge to, in this example, disable a knife, that's a 10 trait loss if you fail the challenge not just 1, thus requiring you to use 1 willpower to restack your mentals for the night.

This would be the limiting factor on the gift, otherwise it's nothing to run around jamming tech all night with hardly a consequence to speak of and finally after failing 9-10 times, 1 willpower, restack and go right back to it.

This would essentially be applied to all static challenges (challenges against the world) in the game. The book itself says "in failing you lose that bit of confidence and cannot call on it again for the night" failing a particularly challenging thing should in turn cause you to lose a significant amount of confidence and therefore weaken you considerably.

So, it's on you gaming community.

If the gift/ability/action reads "this is a challenge against 10 traits" does the player lose the 1 trait required to initiate the challenge OR do they lose the 10 traits the challenge is against?

"Static challenge"
Sometimes you may have to undergo a challenge against a narrator rather than against another player. For example, a hacker may use a static mental challenge with the computer ability to break into another computer system. In such circumstances, you bid a trait that would be appropriate, then preform against the narrator. Before the test is made, the narrator decides on the difficulty of the task which you are attempting - this is the number of traits you are bidding against which is used to compare in the event of a time. The test proceeds exactly as it would if you were testing against another character. Of course you may attempt to overbid in a static challenge, but beware because the narrator can overbid as well. The number of traits attached to the challenge should represent the difficulty and danger inherent in the challenge.

The Glyphstone
2014-01-19, 09:08 PM
Second interpretation is the only way to maintain consistency. You said your group is agreed on for PvP challenges - presumably there it's 1 Trait vs. 1 trait, barring penalties to cancel negatives and such, and it's the same here. If you lose a challenge against another player with 15 physical traits on their sheet, you don't lose 15 of your physical traits, you lose 1.

When you throw a challenge against another player, each bids 1 trait - if they tie, you compare the size of your relevant trait pools and higher breaks the tie. That's how it works for Static challenges as well; risk a trait to bid, win/lose/tie, and a tie is where you compare your traits versus the trait value of the static test in question. It's right there in the Static Challenge rules:


this is the number of traits you are bidding against which is used to compare in the event of a tie. The test proceeds exactly as it would if you were testing against another character. Of course you may attempt to overbid in a static challenge, but beware because the narrator can overbid as well. The number of traits attached to the challenge should represent the difficulty and danger inherent in the challenge.

So to jam knives, you need to win, or tie with 11+ traits on your sheet. To jam computers, you need to win, or tie with 5+ traits. But jamming a Pentex military-grade defense net while under fire from security goons should force you to risk multiple traits on the challenge, whereas making the computers fritz out at the DMV shouldn't be more than 1.