Curse of Lycanthropy's implications...

[Urpriest]

I just re-read the Curse of Lycanthropy spell, as updated in the Spell Compendium.

Necromancy
Level: Pestilence 6,
Components: V, S, M, DF,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Humanoid touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Dipping your hand in blood and then gripping the target fiercely, you call on the curse of lycanthropy to destroy your foe.

If the target fails its saving throw, it dies, and 1d6 wererats (in wererat form; MM 173) claw their way out of its body. The wererats do not attack you or your allies, but might attack nearby living creatures. If no target is available, the wererats scurry awaty to spread their lycanthropy.

Material Component: A pint of animal blood.


So this is an Instantaneous, 6th level spell, with no XP cost or expensive material component besides the blood, that permanently creates several sapient humans out of nowhere. This isn't like the Horn of Valhalla, where they're summoned and then vanish. These are full-fledged human beings (with a template), who presumably have their own hopes, dreams, and histories. Do their memories start at the instant they clawed their way out of someone's corpse? How does such a being view the world?

[Slipperychicken]

You know, wererats are humanoids too. So you could totally grab one of the 3 wererats resulting from the spell, cast the spell on it, and if it fails the Fort save, 3 more wererats will crawl out of it (for a net gain of 2 more wererats per casting).

Also, this seems like an easy way to squick out your gaming group.

[BiblioRook]

How does such a being view the world?

Possibly in the fallowing manner:

Ah … ! What’s happening?

Er, excuse me, who am I?

Hello?

Why am I here? What’s my purpose in life?

What do I mean by who am I

[Nettlekid]

They probably react much like a newly Awakened animal or tree, in that they have a bright-eyed naivety to the world due to lack of experience but are somehow functional as normal adults due to that ~10 Int. Since it says they scurry away to spread their lycanthropy, they're probably acting more on instinct than anything else.

[KrimsonNekros]

Possibly in the fallowing manner:

Ah … ! What’s happening?

Er, excuse me, who am I?

Hello?

Why am I here? What’s my purpose in life?

What do I mean by who am I




Nah they would have to be werewhales for that one.

[(Un)Inspired]

I don't say this very often but Holy Cow! That spell is metal.

What race are the wererats that pop out?

Are they automatically human?

Are they the same race as the unfortunate git you cast the spell on?

Why does Darkbolt have the [Evil] tag and this spell doesn't?

Are you technically the father of these newborn wererats, making the person you cast the spell on the mother?

Why doesn't cancer mage advance spellcasting so I can make one with the pestilence domain?

[Erik Vale]

Apparently pints of blood fit in spell component pouches now...

[(Un)Inspired]

Apparently pints of blood fit in spell component pouches now...

Infinity pints of blood fit in spell component pouches.

[Erik Vale]

I stand corrected.

So, what have we learned here today kiddies?
Vampires don't kill people for blood, they kill people for the money to buy spell component pouches.

Edit: Here's a mental image, a Vampire Lord drinking from a spell component pouch through a straw.

[Sith_Happens]

Edit: Here's a mental image, a Vampire Lord drinking from a spell component pouch through a straw.

Man, I just love the places where GiantITP threads end up.:smallbiggrin:

[Uncle Pine]

Edit: Here's a mental image, a Vampire Lord drinking from a spell component pouch through a straw.

This looks like a job for the Dysfunctional Thread!

[Sith_Happens]

This looks like a job for the Dysfunctional Thread!

Nah, we added a general "Spell component pouches. Just... spell component pouches" to that thread a LONG time ago.:smalltongue:

[Dr. Azkur]

Nah they would have to be werewhales for that one.

You deserve flowers for that reference. Too bad they're going to splat on the ground again!

[Crake]

Why does Darkbolt have the [Evil] tag and this spell doesn't?

More like, why does Deathwatch have the [Evil] tag and this spell doesnt. As for mental (I'm assuming that's what you meant, but I guess metal works too?) spells, check out Seething Eyebane, it's a level 1 spell that make's the target's eyes freaking explode! Thats the kind of damage that doesn't get fixed by remove blindness/deafness, but instead a regenerate spell.

[rexx1888]

should there not just be a "all spells in general" post somewhere in the dysfunctional thread...

[Dr. Azkur]

Oh wow this is van Helmont's Recipe for Mice taken to HardcoreLand


If you press a piece of underwear soiled with sweat together with some wheat in an open mouth jar, after about 21 days the odor changes and the ferment, coming out of the underwear and penetrating through the husks of the wheat, changes the wheat into mice. But what is more remarkable is that mice of both sexes emerge, and these mice successfully reproduce with mice born naturally from parents...But what is even more remarkable is that the mice which come out of the wheat are not small mice, not even miniature adults or aborted mice, but adult mice emerge! —Jan Baptist van Helmont

[Uncle Pine]

To go back to the original topic, I think that as the wererats scurry away to spread their lycanthropy if no available target is on sight they could be treated as an afflicted lycanthrope on his first night of transformation. This is because on his first transformation the afflicted lycanthrope forget his/her own identity and acts accordingly to the alignment of his animal form (in this case CE) and there little difference between someone who completely forgot his own identity and someone who doesn't have an identity at all. Next dawn, the wererats will find themselves in human form somewhere, probably naked. In my opinion, such an experience should be extremely traumatic: think about it as one of those film in which the main character forgets about his identity and tries to find out who he/she really is, except that in this case there is no answer because he/she literally popped out of nowhere. Actually, he/she could manage to track down the caster who "created" him/her and react accordingly to his past experience: in most cases, this means that he/she would probably try to kill the caster because it's highly improbable that a wandering naked wererat would receive help from someone and thus he/she have probably lived a hellish existence with more forks, commoners and torches than it's recommended.

[Hangwind]

I wonder what happens if you use this on a body outside body clone?

[Uncle Pine]

I wonder what happens if you use this on a body outside body clone?

You take 10 points of damage and there are now 1d6 more wererats on the run.

[Rijan_Sai]

Just a couple of quick thoughts...

You deserve flowers for that reference. Too bad they're going to splat on the ground again!

No, it was the flowers that thought "Not again..."

To answer a question posted earlier, barring any further rules text, I would (at best) guess that the W'Rats would be of the same race as the victim*. Makes the most sence to me at least.

*Kind of like how Xenomorphs are, more or less, formed in the shape of the creature they burst from. I.e. the one on the Nostromo was humanoid-ish, while the one in the third movie was closer to a dog. Edit: Or the Predalien...

[(Un)Inspired]

More like, why does Deathwatch have the [Evil] tag and this spell doesnt. As for mental (I'm assuming that's what you meant, but I guess metal works too?) spells, check out Seething Eyebane, it's a level 1 spell that make's the target's eyes freaking explode! Thats the kind of damage that doesn't get fixed by remove blindness/deafness, but instead a regenerate spell.

Nope. I meant metal. This spell is like something an angry suburban 12 year old would draw on the back of his notebook.

[Slipperychicken]

I stand corrected.

So, what have we learned here today kiddies?
Vampires don't kill people for blood, they kill people for the money to buy spell component pouches.

Edit: Here's a mental image, a Vampire Lord drinking from a spell component pouch through a straw.

Dude, that spell component pouch is full of bat guano, severed limbs, and live spiders. You'd have to be pretty desperate to drink the blood out of it.

The vampire could also eat the tiny tarts from Hideous Laughter if he was sufficiently desperate a murderhobo.

[Uncle Pine]

The vampire could also eat the tiny tarts from Hideous Laughter if he was sufficiently desperate a murderhobo.

Or he could throw a party and offer the tarts to the guests. You know, vampires need to meet some standards nowadays.

[Grim Portent]

Or he could throw a party and offer the tarts to the guests. You know, vampires need to meet some standards nowadays.

I'm pretty sure the vampire wouldn't be meeting many standards by serving tarts covered in bat guano, blood and spiders.

[Urpriest]

I don't say this very often but Holy Cow! That spell is metal.

What race are the wererats that pop out?

Are they automatically human?

Are they the same race as the unfortunate git you cast the spell on?

Why does Darkbolt have the [Evil] tag and this spell doesn't?

Are you technically the father of these newborn wererats, making the person you cast the spell on the mother?

Why doesn't cancer mage advance spellcasting so I can make one with the pestilence domain?

Given the Monster Manual reference, I'm assuming they're the example wererats from the MM, so human.

As for the comparison to Awaken, I've always thought of Awakened plants and animals as still having their prior identity/memories, just with higher intelligence. Since Speak with Plants and Speak with Animals work, presumably plants and animals in D&D have experiences and are in some sense conscious, they're just limited. If you think of it as a dreamlike state, then Awaken can even be taken semi-literally.

This spell, on the other hand, creates the wererats completely from nowhere. I agree that both are pretty crazy, but this is worse.

[Kudaku]

Has anyone ever compiled a list of all the materials found in your typical spell materials pouch?

Every spell with a material component listed - anywhere... Hm.

[Sam K]

If you get one of those PCs who wants to play a "good", yet dark and edgy, redeemed vampire, tell them they have to drink from a spell components bag. If they can put up with drinking blood with batsh*t in it, they may just be serious about the concept.

Kinda makes it hard to mope about "Having to drink the blood of the living", though...

[Dr. Azkur]

Has anyone ever compiled a list of all the materials found in your typical spell materials pouch?

Every spell with a material component listed - anywhere... Hm.

That's why there are no material components in my game except those ones that are actually the focus of the spell. The money lost when you cast the expensive ones is never talked about...


No, it was the flowers that thought "Not again..."

Yes, I said that.

[Slipperychicken]

If you get one of those PCs who wants to play a "good", yet dark and edgy, redeemed vampire, tell them they have to drink from a spell components bag. If they can put up with drinking blood with batsh*t in it, they may just be serious about the concept.


Honestly, drinking the contents of a spell component pouch sounds more like a hazing ritual for a wizards' fraternity.

[(Un)Inspired]

Honestly, drinking the contents of a spell component pouch sounds more like a hazing ritual for a wizards' fraternity.

It sounds more like a suicide pact. On the count of three we drink.

[Slipperychicken]

It sounds more like a suicide pact. On the count of three we drink.

I imagine they would just have someone standing by to cast Remove Poison and Remove Disease.

[Big Fau]

Empower the crap out of this spell!

[Gemini476]

Would there even be any bat guano and the like in there, given the existence of Apocalypse From the Sky and Spheres of Annihilation?

The spell component pouch seems to work more like a mini-Bag of Holding, really.

[(Un)Inspired]

Would there even be any bat guano and the like in there, given the existence of Apocalypse From the Sky and Spheres of Annihilation?

The spell component pouch seems to work more like a mini-Bag of Holding, really.

It's way better than a bag of holding. It's got unlimited volume and comes already full of fun goodies.

[KrimsonNekros]

Just a couple of quick thoughts...


No, it was the flowers that thought "Not again..."


Indeed, but would we really have any better understandings off the D&D Cosmology if we understood why the pot of flowers thought that?

[Rijan_Sai]

Yes, I said that.

So you did. I missread your phrasing...:smallredface:
In that case: Well done, Sir! Not sure where to find a "tip my hat to you" smilie, but if I could it would be here!


Indeed, but would we really have any better understandings off the D&D Cosmology if we understood why the pot of flowers thought that?

Yes, yes we would!

[Brookshw]

Indeed, but would we really have any better understandings off the D&D Cosmology if we understood why the pot of flowers thought that?

PaO'd petitioner into a flower pot with awaken plant?

[Sith_Happens]

I imagine they would just have someone standing by to cast Remove Poison and Remove Disease.

Plus whatever fixes nitric acid exposure.