What are the minimum stats needed to kill a creature?

[Jon_Dahl]

It's a generally accepted fact that a being needs stats before you can destroy it/kill it.

What are the minimum stats needed to kill a creature?

[Crake]

It's a generally accepted fact that a being needs stats before you can destroy it/kill it.

What are the minimum stats needed to kill a creature?

I think you should be asking "What are the minimum stats for something to be considered a creature?" I would say a wisdom and charisma score. The ability to distinguish yourself from others, and the ability to percieve the world around you. Anything else is optional for a creature, you can find creatures with int, dex, con and str -, but all creatures need at least 1 wis and 1 cha to function.

That said, objects can still be destroyed, and the only stats they have are hardness and hitpoints

[Erik Vale]

No, just HP. There are hardness 0 objects.

[Jon_Dahl]

All right, so far all we need is HP. Any other views?

[Crake]

No, just HP. There are hardness 0 objects.

hardness 0 is still a hardness score

But as I said earlier, are we talking about creatures? Because if so, objects don't qualify.

[rmnimoc]

You need either HP, constitution, saves, levels, or simply not having a divine rank. With HP you can be killed the old fashioned way, con drain is also fatal, failing saves can/destroy/unmake you, and with enough negative levels you also bite it. Having any one of those makes you vulnerable to angry adventures, depending on their creativity and boredom. There is a divine ability to instakill any mortal (defined here as a being with no divine ranks) so that also makes you vulnerable.

[Jon_Dahl]

hardness 0 is still a hardness score

But as I said earlier, are we talking about creatures? Because if so, objects don't qualify.

We can talk about both, but the intention was to talk about creatures. However, I'd prefer to avoid the philosophical debate about what exactly is a creature, unless absolutely necessary.

[mucat]

I don't understand what you are even asking.


It's a generally accepted fact that a being needs stats before you can destroy it/kill it.

Why is that a generally accepted fact?


GM: There's a slug on your tomato plants.
Player: Ew. I kill it.
GM: OK. It's dead.

Perfectly acceptable, if not thrilling, piece of game play, and it required no stats at all.

[Mithril Leaf]

It's a generally accepted fact that a being needs stats before you can destroy it/kill it.

What are the minimum stats needed to kill a creature?

I think the minimum for something to be a creature rather than an object is having wisdom.

[Kraken]

Anything that lacks Wisdom or Charisma is an object

Even intelligent magic items are explicitly creatures that are to be treated as constructs. Is there an example of something lacking a wis/cha score that isn't a creature?

[Scow2]

The wisdom isn't that it needs stats to be killed. The wisdom is that anything with stats can be killed. Just because everything with stats can be killed doesn't mean everything without stats can't be killed.

[Uncle Pine]

It's a generally accepted fact that a being needs stats before you can destroy it/kill it.

Nope. Useless critters that even a commoner could kill without effort don't require stats and even the DMG suggests to build stats block for creatures only when they are needed. This doesn't make those creature invulnerable.
The thing is:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/66a2fd2e2f6f1ea4f064e8d77a3597dc/tumblr_mhytki1YHq1qfbemzo1_1280.jpg
Like "Neat. You've built stats block for your deities? They have a score of 2.000 in every ability? Looks like this is a job for Tippy." 1 round later, your deities are all dead.

By the way, check the Nonabilities (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#nonabilities) paragraph in the SRD. It clearly states that anything that lacks a Wis or Cha is an object, not a creature. Any other score is completely unnecessary (although I'm not aware of a published creatures that simultaneously lacks all the other ability scores).

[Firebug]

I think you should be asking "What are the minimum stats for something to be considered a creature?" I would say a wisdom and charisma score. The ability to distinguish yourself from others, and the ability to percieve the world around you. Anything else is optional for a creature, you can find creatures with int, dex, con and str -, but all creatures need at least 1 wis and 1 cha to function.

That said, objects can still be destroyed, and the only stats they have are hardness and hitpoints

If we are venturing into objects, you don't even need a hit point total to destroy objects. Disintegrate doesn't care about object hardness or hit points just the size, one 10' cube.

[Gemini476]

Nope. Useless critters that even a commoner could kill without effort don't require stats and even the DMG suggests to build stats block for creatures only when they are needed. This doesn't make those creature invulnerable.
The thing is:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/66a2fd2e2f6f1ea4f064e8d77a3597dc/tumblr_mhytki1YHq1qfbemzo1_1280.jpg
Like "Neat. You've built stats block for your deities? They have a score of 2.000 in every ability? Looks like this is a job for Tippy." 1 round later, your deities are all dead.

By the way, check the Nonabilities (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#nonabilities) paragraph in the SRD. It clearly states that anything that lacks a Wis or Cha is an object, not a creature. Any other score is completely unnecessary (although I'm not aware of a published creatures that simultaneously lacks all the other ability scores).

Immobile loses Dex, incorporeal loses Str, mindless loses Int, and a bunch of stuff loses Con.
I think I remember some combination of templates that basically gave you an immobile incorporeal turret.

Fun fact that is slightly relevant: trees and plants (of the non-monstrous variety) are considered living objects. So you can kill them,but they aren't creatures. This has weird dysfunctions with Disintegrate.

[Uncle Pine]

Immobile loses Dex, incorporeal loses Str, mindless loses Int, and a bunch of stuff loses Con.
I think I remember some combination of templates that basically gave you an immobile incorporeal turret.

A ghost brute shrieker has Str -, Dex -, Con -, Int -, Wis 1, Cha 8, a speed of 0 ft., can't attack and it's a CR 3 creature.

[Jon_Dahl]

If we are venturing into objects, you don't even need a hit point total to destroy objects. Disintegrate doesn't care about object hardness or hit points just the size, one 10' cube.

Good point!

[sideswipe]

since you said minimum and a "-" for an ability score is the lack of a score's relevance and not an actual score. and the fact that if con hits 0 then you die and if int cha or wis hit 0 you go unconscious that means that str and dex can be 0 since you become paralysed but not unplayable.

this means that the minimum score to play a character (again lack of a score with - does not count) is 0,0,1,1,1,1.

this means that if you have a magic item that allows you to fly/move using command words and thoughts. or a permanent controlled floating disc or other.
Or if you are strapped to a horse you can move.

now all you need is an ability that is not a spell (requiring a certain stat level to cast). that produces any amount of damage. or control over a creature in some way shape of form. the control would allow them to cause the creature to cause itself injury or put itself in harms way.

one way to do this is to take the feat magic devotion. with no prerequisites you can take it. it declares you make a ranged touch attack. in the rules compendium it does not state that you have to move to make a ranged attack. but it is assumed to involve movement if you use a bow or item or cast a spell with material components.
for example manifesting uses no movement. only mental. so you can manifest with 0 str 0 dex.
so since it is a ranged attack, that does not require movement, you can use it to deliver a bolt of lightning via your mind that does 1d6 damage/2lvls

you could find a way of delivering passive or different damage. it would also work.

[Jack_Simth]

Immobile loses Dex, incorporeal loses Str, mindless loses Int, and a bunch of stuff loses Con.
I think I remember some combination of templates that basically gave you an immobile incorporeal turret.Easier than that. Make a Zombie or skeleton out of a Formian Queen (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/formian.htm#queen).

[Zweisteine]

To have a creature be killable, it needs nothing more than HP. To have it be a creature at all, it needs a bit more. While technically, an HP stat is all you need to kill something, it really isn't enough to go off of.

The least you could have as a creature that could be placed in a game without the explicit and only purpose of being killed might be this:
Type: Humanoid
Space: 5 ft (may not be necessary if you aren't using a physical grid)
HP: 1
Saves: all 0
Immunities/resistances: none
Ability scores: All 1

This is the minimum possible to actually use. It can't attack, but can be killed by all normal means. Of course, it would also have to have all of the other normal creature features (reach 0, attacks: none, etc), but those don't really have to be listed if not present.

EDIT:
The real problem is that to have HP, you need HD, and either a constitution score or type and size. And to HD, you also need a type, so the absolute simplest killable creature would probably look like this:
Type: construct
HP: X (HD 1d10)
Special qualities: this creature does not gain the normal construct traits.

The problem then extends: type brings with it a base attack bonus and base saves, which require ability scores, which brings it back to what I had above.
Type: Construct
Size: Medium
HP: 1 (HD 1d10)
Armor Class: 10
Saves: Fort 0, Ref 0, Will 0
Base attack/grapple: 0/0
Ability scores: Str 10, Dex 10, Con –, Int –, Wis 10, Cha 10
Special Qualities: This creature does not have the standard construct traits.

I added in AC, though with power word kill and such, that is not necessary,

Here is what I would say the absolute minimum needed to kill a creature is:
HP: 1

Power word kills it, as it is a creature with no specified spell resistance, immunities, and HP below 101.

[Phelix-Mu]

There are actually stats for object challenges in the form of oozes and slimes on page 76 of the DMG. No hp given, they are generally vulnerable to certain attack forms. They have no stats, are implied to be similar to plants (and are affected as such by spells and effects), but can deal damage to other things.

Rather unusual, especially as a couple of them are given some very hyperbolic growth rates. Most objects aren't alive (except plants) and few reproduce on time scale that is useful in all but niche cases.