Binder Gestalt Question

[TabletopGamer]

Ok so I was curious if a Binder would Gestalt well with a Wizard in their abilities given that Binder has a lot of cool effects that are 24 hours.

Now I know it focuses on Charisma but we have ways around that old restriction.

[Metahuman1]

I'd personally say yes. Get your check up enough to bypass bad pacts, and it goes a long way toward extending your work day and at the same time covering weaknesses like low HD and Bad Fort. While also giving you other ability's so you don't always need to burn spells prepared in a fight, and you can bypass some mandatory buffs cause there built into the binder and his vestiges.

[Psyren]

While some vestiges do have Charisma-based effects, there are a large number that don't rely on any specific stat at all. You can pair a binder with anything just fine and wizard is no exception.

One great vestige for a wizard/binder is Astaroth, who gives you Bardic Knowledge and enables you to craft items without needing crafting feats.

[Story]

Have you considered Anima Mage?


Anyway, plenty of vestiges are good even with no charisma to speak of. Malphas and Balam for adventuring and Asteroth during downtime are my favorites.

[Fouredged Sword]

I would think a bard / sublime chord may be "better" for a given value of better where you are trying to stay as SAD as possible. It grants light armor, better skills, and charisma casting. You get shuffled to a worse casting method though.

[TabletopGamer]

Well Lost Tradition lets you change a magic users ability score to any other you want (Including Dex and the like) so switching the Binder to Int would not be hard.

Hmm ok I will look into this build further, there are online vestiges that I need to look up.

[Jurai]

Yes. Binder and Wizard are Fluff Reese's Cups. That meaning that they go well together. Secondly, Binder benefits Wizard well mechanically: Bigger HD, better BAB, good Fort saves, and ACTUAL class features. Wizard will still be important, but now he gains some toughness. As well as the ability to not need to prepare Summon Monster spells. Though I would rather Gestalt Sorcerer and Binder, go Anima Mage 10 on the Sorcerer side (No class features after first level equals eyugh!), focusing otherwise on the Sorcerer side so I could go Archmage and use my blasting spells with whatever element I please.

[Pesimismrocks]

Well Lost Tradition lets you change a magic users ability score to any other you want (Including Dex and the like) so switching the Binder to Int would not be hard.

Hmm ok I will look into this build further, there are online vestiges that I need to look up.

Binder is not a magic user in the sense of spellcasting so the feat would be useless. And I'm fairly sure it 3rd party. Wizard could be changed to cha though

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Binder gestalts well with everything, because Binder requires no investment.

If you want to get good mileage out of being a wizard, you need to have a high int, spend lots of money on spells, burn through a few feats, and spend your actions in combat casting spells. If you want to get anything for being a fighter, you have to have a high strength, spend lots of money on weapons and armor, burn through even more feats, and spend your actions in combat hitting things. So, if you gestalt fighter and wizard, you don't have the attribute points to be good at either, you don't have the money to afford enough gear, you don't have enough feats to go around, and every turn you're either being a fighter or a wizard, not both.

Binders, meanwhile, are truly NAD - Non-Attribute-Dependent. Sure, the book says charisma and constitution, but it's lying - con barely does anything, and charisma is only needed for save DCs and binding checks - and the fact is, you can be a perfectly good binder while failing every single binding check. (Failing a check doesn't make the binding not work, or limit its power, or anything - it just means that, if a certain roleplay situation comes up, and you choose not to act in a certain way, then you get a -1 penalty on certain rolls for the rest of the day.) Binders don't need any equipment to be binders; there are only like three feats that a binder actually wants, and the class provides more bonus feats than that.

Finally - perhaps most importantly - a lot of a binders best tricks are passive bonuses, immunities or utility stuff, none of which eats at the action economy. That means that a binder + X can get the full benefit of being a binder and an X on every turn, rather than having to choose.