Advice on a Marshal

[Chester]

If I want to build a Marshal and pick up bonus feats by dipping into Fighter, is it better to start as a Fighter and pick up Marshal early, or start as a Marshal and dip fighter later?

[sideswipe]

what is the starting level and the proposed end level?

also is the campaign inquisitive or kick in the door kill the orc's type of hack and slash?

[Juntao112]

If I want to build a Marshal and pick up bonus feats by dipping into Fighter, is it better to start as a Fighter and pick up Marshal early, or start as a Marshal and dip fighter later?

Better start as a Marshal. Those extra skill points are worth more than the 2 extra HP you'd get from being a Fighter.

Look into the Adrenaline Surge ACF in the PHB2, and consider taking Knowledge Devotion.

If you want to be funny, take Motivate Dexterity and help your allies sneak around by yelling at them.

[sideswipe]

Better start as a Marshal. Those extra skill points are worth more than the 2 extra HP you'd get from being a Fighter.

Look into the Adrenaline Surge ACF in the PHB2, and consider taking Knowledge Devotion.

If you want to be funny, take Motivate Dexterity and help your allies sneak around by yelling at them.

i agree in most cases. 2 levels in marshal then 2 levels of fighter then marshal upwards.
have you considered feat rogue instead of fighter? you get less hp but more skills and you get the two fighter feats.

[Chester]

what is the starting level and the proposed end level?

also is the campaign inquisitive or kick in the door kill the orc's type of hack and slash?

We'd start at level 1. Will be an alternative to our current campaign. It would be a mix of inquisitive with some good old hack-n-slash once in a while. Basically, I'm trying to build something completely different from my current character. I'm a Dread Necromancer, but looking to build the "quintessential soldier."


Better start as a Marshal. Those extra skill points are worth more than the 2 extra HP you'd get from being a Fighter.

Look into the Adrenaline Surge ACF in the PHB2, and consider taking Knowledge Devotion.

Thank you, good point!


i agree in most cases. 2 levels in marshal then 2 levels of fighter then marshal upwards.
have you considered feat rogue instead of fighter? you get less hp but more skills and you get the two fighter feats.

I see where you're headed, but I'm more about swinging the weapon around than I am about rogue stuff. I never play fighter types, so this is a departure from the norm. :smallsmile:

[Fouredged Sword]

For a quintessential soldier...

Assuming Fractional saves/bab

Feat Rogue 2 / Fighter 2 / Marshal 2 / Dread Commando X

Ok, so you go feat rogue for easy fighter feats and stuff. Fighter is better than feat rogue 3-4 as you get an extra feat and better HD/bab. Marshal 2 gives the motivate dextarity aura, for cha to hide/move sci. and initiative.

Dread Commando lets you sneak around in armor and be quick while doing it (mythral brestplate). It adds your class level to the party initiative mod. The whole party will go first, and with your scouting is likely to start with a surprise round. Charge in and power attack an unsuspecting foe, then go to town with your sword while the rest of your team works from support.

Remember, everyone gets your charisma bonus to their hide/move sci checks. Encourage everyone to put some points into them.

You are not a rogue, you are a sneaky fighter. Use the high base skill points you are getting to invest in your focused set of skills. Spot, listen, search, hide, move sci, and then go for open lock/disable device with extra skill points. Let your Int be whatever you can get away with. An 8 int wouldn't cripple this character like a pure rogue. Wisdom can also take a hit.

You suffer some MAD, needing Str, Dex, Con and Cha. Try to balance them all and snag some stat boosting gear. I would try for a 16 str and 14 everything else if you have the point buy. Maybe a 12 int if you have a 32 point buy.

Your hide/move sci benefits from your charisma modifier, so you can invest less in dex than most sneaky characters. I suggest power attack and a greatsword for your weapon.

Craven makes for a nice bit of bonus damage, but is not critical for this build.

Str > Con > Dex = Cha > Int > Wis

[Chester]

For a quintessential soldier...

Assuming Fractional saves/bab

Feat Rogue 2 / Fighter 2 / Marshal 2 / Dread Commando.

Ok, so you go feat rogue for easy fighter feats and stuff. Fighter is better than feat rogue 3-4 as you get an extra feat and better HD/bab. Marshal 2 gives the motivate dextarity aura, for cha to hide/move sci. and initiative.

Dread Commando lets you sneak around in armor and be quick while doing it (mythral brestplate). It adds your class level to the party initiative mod.

You are not a rogue, you are a sneaky fighter. Use the high base skill points you are getting to invest in your focused set of skills. Spot, listen, search, hide, move sci, and then go for open lock/disable device with extra skill points. Let your Int be whatever you can get away with. An 8 int wouldn't cripple this character like a pure rogue. Wisdom can also take a hit.

You suffer some MAD, needing Str, Dex, Con and Cha. Try to balance them all and snag some stat boosting gear. I would try for a 16 str and 14 everything else if you have the point buy. Maybe a 12 int if you have a 32 point buy.

Your hide/move sci benefits from your charisma modifier, so you can invest less in dex than most sneaky characters. I suggest power attack and a greatsword for your weapon.

Craven makes for a nice bit of bonus damage, but is not critical for this build.

Str > Con > Dex = Cha > Int > Wis

OK, I misunderstood feat rogue in sideswipe's post (sorry :smallbiggrin:); where do I find Feat Rogue? (book?)

[Fouredged Sword]

It is on the SRD and in unearthed Arcana IRL

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogue

A two level dip grants skill points, two fighter feats, and evasion. Fighter 2 / Feat Rogue 2 is a great 4 level martial packet to add to any build.

[Gnome Alone]

I'm more about swinging the weapon around than the rogue stuff


I never play fighter types

Uh... Snuh?

[Fouredged Sword]

He is branching out into something new and looking for advice.

He wants to be a charisma boosted swordsman, not a charisma based rogue.

EDIT - Thoughts on the dread commando build

This build pairs well with a rogue, as you can rush in and be a flanking buddy while improving his own sneaking. If you get a rogue, focus on nature skills like survival and knowledge geography rather than search and disable device/open lock.

With Dex + Cha + dread commando + Improved initiative, you can be fairly confidant of going first, so use the surprise round to close the distance with a charge. By going first in the following round, you can catch a target with a full attack while they still don't have their dex to AC, and you ignore the penalty to AC because you take your turn before they do, removing the charge debuff.

Race, human

Feats
1st - able learner
Racial - dodge
FR1 - Mobility
FR2 - Power Attack
3rd - Improved Initiative
F 1 - Free Feat
F 2 - Free Feat
6th - Free Feat

Marshal Auras
Motivate Dexterity - Cha to dex checks and init
Motivate Urgency - +5ft move speed to everyone.

Armor - Chain shirt to start off, then breastplate, then mithral full plate once you get enough ACP reduction to use it without penalty (or at 1 ACP, it isn't that bad).

With those free feats, I would consider ether turning yourself into a charger with leap attack or into a tripper with EXP spiked chain (move EWP to level 1 and push mobility to 6th.

[gorfnab]

Marshal 2/ Crusader X - focusing on White Raven maneuvers (specifically White Raven Tactics) and the feat Clarion Commander.

[Red Fel]

Since you never play fighter-types, I should advise you that Marshal tends to be seen as somewhat unpopular by some for anything more than a dip. There are many reasons, but a big one is that it's a melee class with only 3/4 BAB and all it gets, really, are auras and Skill Focus (Diplomacy). The auras are nice, but you can only use two at once. Being able to trigger an ally's move action is a plus, but there are other ways to do that - Gorfnab, for example, mentioned White Raven Tactics, which can be used every encounter, as opposed to limited per-day uses, and instantly triggers someone's entire turn, not just a move action.

My question, therefore, is: Do you specifically want to play a Marshal, or were you looking for an interesting melee class to play and happened to stumble upon Marshal?

[Chester]

My question, therefore, is: Do you specifically want to play a Marshal, or were you looking for an interesting melee class to play and happened to stumble upon Marshal?

I was looking at Marshal, but open to ideas.

Unfortunately, Warblade and Crusader are out ("too broken").

[FMArthur]

What about Motivate Charisma and Iaijutsu Focus? I've based an NPC enemy around this to decent effect with a very high charisma character. IIRC he stayed in Motivate Dexterity until combat started, won initiative and then switched to Charisma.

It worked well enough as a damage-dealer, but truthfully there was little reason for it to be a straight-classed Marshal other than being a throwaway NPC. The Fighter levels could give it feats for larger full attacks and pseudo-pounces to use IF with.