Bard Whip Build

[Bloodgruve]

Hey Playgrounders

Looking at a bard build, give me your thoughts. Books are Core/SRD, PHB2, CAdv and CArc for classes but feats, skills and equipment are open.

I like melee and am building to buff me and my parties combat abilities with Inspire Courage.

Human CG, 48 point buy.. Alleviates some of the MAD.

Weapons are 2x Mighty Whip-Daggers. Arms and Equipment Guide 3.0. Couple questions here. Lists these under Exotic Ranged weapons, but Whip in 3.5 is melee. Do the whip daggers need Dex, Point Bland and Precise Shot to function well or do they run off of Str? I know they are subject to AoO when threatened and they do not threaten. Will also pick up some Crystal Echo Blades and use Alter Self natural attacks.

Assuming they are Str and Melee this is my build.
Bard 8/ Warblade 1*/ Bard X
1. TWF, Melodic Casting (H), Oversized TWF (F) and Extra Music (F)
3. Knowledge Devotion
6. Snowflake Wardance
9. Song of the White Raven*
12. Words of Creation.... *
15?
18?

ACF's
Bardic Knack
Healing Hymn
Spellbreaker Song
Song of the Heart replacing Suggestion at 6th lvl

Skills are 6 knowledges, Perform (Beatbox) and UMD with miscellaneous ranks in others for prerequisites.

I decided against a Trip build because of the lack of AoO's with Whips. We have a couple front liners though so I like the range.

*Our DM is not terribly experienced. I am hoping that by the time the group hits 9th level Warblade and BoED will open up.

Give me your thoughts, I know its not terribly optimized but I'm going for a fun, stylish and semi-optimized character.

Input is appreciated,

Blood~

[Flickerdart]

Mighty isn't really a thing anymore, since whips aren't ranged weapons in 3.5.

[Bloodgruve]

Mighty isn't really a thing anymore, since whips aren't ranged weapons in 3.5.

Thanks Fliker,

IIRC the rule is that if there isn't an updated version from 3.0 to 3.5 then 3.0 is still valid. Where does that leave Whip-Dagger?

Appreciated,

Blood~

[Flickerdart]

You should discuss it with your DM. I don't think the A&EG ever received a conversion guide, so you should use common sense - does it make sense for a whip-dagger to work on a completely different set of rules than a whip? Personally, I would say no.

Then again, I would just take a Pyrokineticist dip for a whip made of fire.

[Bloodgruve]

Would Fire Lash damage benefit from Strength, IC, Snowflake and Knowledge Devotion?

I'll consult my DM n see what he thinks.

Thanks again,

Blood~

[mabriss lethe]

Pyro's fire lash:
-IIRC it does not benefit from strength, as it is a ranged touch attack that otherwise functions as a whip.
-Any feat that would grant its benefit to a whip will work with fire lash.
-There is no answer on how, exactly, items or other abilities interact with the fire lash. Ask your DM.

EDIT: To be more specific, Yes to Inspire Courage, Snowflake War Dance, and Knowledge devotion. Each of them are feats that would work with a whip. If you do go for a dip into pyro, Power Attack is a must-have damage booster.

[Baroknik]

Though ToB classes are out, look into martial study... 15 range for maneuvers can be fun (I'm looking at you, Clever Positioning -- SPROING!)

[Bloodgruve]

Thanks guys,

I had a Martial Study > Song of the White Raven build first, but it was a bit too feat heavy so I decided to beg for a Warblade dip instead ;)

Could you wield a Fire Lash whip with 2 hands?..

Its funny that PA would work where Str doesn't.. guess that's 3.5 though.

Blood~

[Fitz10019]

It may be fun to cast Animate Rope on a whip (as a rope-like object) and use it to entangle opponents at lower levels.

[mabriss lethe]

You can use Fire lash 2 handed.

PA works because it is a feat, and Fire lash is specifically called out as benefitting from feats in the same manner as a whip would benefit from them. PA never mentions strength in the ability description, only referencing it as a prerequisite. Since you can 2 handed PA with a whip, you can also do it with the lash.

If you are considering a pyro dip, see if you can't use one of the alternate energy variants. Sonokineticist is my personal favorite. You drop a die size on damage, but gain the ability to ignore the hardness of unattended objects with it.

[Bloodgruve]

TY,

DM allowed the Whip-Dagger so for now I'm looking at just running Bard. I really like Sonokineticist and it would fit in flavor wise with Bard.. We'll see how it goes.

Thanks again for all the input.

Blood~