Question on Jump rules

[beowulf_gr]

If you have a fly speed can you jump while flying in order to be able to use the leap attack feat?

[OldTrees1]

Jumping in Water: Creatures that have natural swim speeds
use that speed to determine how they jump when in water.
They take a –10 penalty on high jumps from water, the fi nal
result measuring how high the jumper’s feet or tail is out of
the water after the jump. Creatures that lack a natural swim
speed can’t jump while in water.

This is the closest the rules get to jumping while not on a solid surface.
Based on the shape of these rules, I would allow a creature with a natural fly speed is allowed to make a jump check using its wings to push off against the air. Such a check would be at a greater penalty than the natural swimmer has. Maybe a -20 penalty on the jump.

However by RAW, no it looks like you cannot make a Leap attack. However you can make a Diving Attack (although it is only worth it for Dragonborn and Raptorians).

[Zweisteine]

By RAW, you can not jump while flying. However, if you are able to charge/dive while flying (which may require a feat, probably Power Dive or Diving Charge, depending on how your DM rules it), your DM may let you count that for leap attack, at the expense of the normal dive bonus to damage (or maybe in addition, if you needed a feat to dive).

[beowulf_gr]

However by RAW, no it looks like you cannot make a Leap attack. However you can make a Diving Attack (although it is only worth it for Dragonborn and Raptorians).

So you are saying if we used the -20 penalty rule it would be Ok to Leap attack, but that this is not RAW, just extrapolation from the rule about jumping on water

[OldTrees1]

So you are saying if we used the -20 penalty rule it would be Ok to Leap attack, but that this is not RAW, just extrapolation from the rule about jumping on water

Yes that is precisely what I am saying.

It is the whole "Yes, but" style of DMing. If the player wants to be able to do something then the DM should try to permit it, but should also try to balance it and maintain verisimilitude.

[Andezzar]

By RAW, you can not jump while flying. However, if you are able to charge/dive while flying (which may require a feat, probably Power Dive or Diving Charge, depending on how your DM rules it), your DM may let you count that for leap attack, at the expense of the normal dive bonus to damage (or maybe in addition, if you needed a feat to dive).Everybody can charge while flying. The only problem is satisfying the condition for a charge (no hampered movement, straight line). Perfect Maneuverability takes care of that problem.

I disagree with the opinion that jumping while flying should be allowed. How is this "jump" any different from flying in an arc?
Normally you use your legs to propel yourself from a solid surface. Whatever you do with the "flying jump" has nothing to do with it.

[OldTrees1]

Everybody can charge while flying. The only problem is satisfying the condition for a charge (no hampered movement, straight line). Perfect Maneuverability takes care of that problem.

I disagree with the opinion that jumping while flying should be allowed. How is this "jump" any different from flying in an arc?
Normally you use your legs to propel yourself from a solid surface. Whatever you do with the "flying jump" has nothing to do with it.

Correction: Even Clumsy flyers can charge while flying.

[Andezzar]

Correction: Even Clumsy flyers can charge while flying.They are not prohibited from charging (that's why I said everybody can charge while flying) but unless you have perfect maneuverability, you cannot turn to face the target and move towards it. Such flyers must align themselves with the target in the turn before they charge (which means such charges very rarely occur). Turning in place is hampered movement for all flying creatures except those with perfect maneuverability. creatures with poor and clumsy maneuverability cannot turn in place at all.

[Darrin]

By RAW, you can not jump while flying.

Can you cite your source for this?

[OldTrees1]

Can you cite your source for this?

I cannot find a source that prohibits jumping while flying. However I cannot find a source allowing jumping while flying and I did find a source prohibiting jumping while swimming unless they were a natural swimmer and allowing it if they were natural swimmers.

In general D&D operates off the rules giving permission to do actions with the assumption being an action cannot be done unless there are rules for it or the DM makes rules for it. I believe the in book example was something like: Just because there are no rules against singing "My Little Teapot" to heal to full health does not mean doing so heals you.