When do you need the spell Regenerate? [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Nettlekid

2014-01-20, 03:54 PM

Except for circumstances involving a critical hit and a DM who wholeheartedly encourages descriptive roleplaying, there aren't a lot of instances of called shots or partial dismemberment in D&D. I love the aspect of both the Regenerate spell and the Regeneration special ability that allows you to regrow lost limbs (and reattach in the case of Regeneration) but I can't actually think of much that makes that necessary. Can you?

Basically this thread is just asking: When, by use of actual spell rules or class features or whatever you want and not from a DM just adding it for flavor, can a character lose parts of their body to be Regenerated? I found Seething Eyebane mentioned on another thread (which is what made me start thinking about this in the first place) and that certainly works, but my next thoughts of the Warlock's Crawling Eye and Disembodied Hand or the spell Lahm's Finger Darts all allow the appendage to be regrown as part of the spell/invocation effect.

Dalebert

2014-01-20, 04:24 PM

Grim Revenge (http://dndtools.eu/spells/book-of-vile-darkness--37/grim-revenge--208/) came up recently in a thread. I thought it was cute.

The hand of the subject tears itself away from one of his arms, leaving a bloody stump...
Then the hand, animated and floating in the air, begins to attack the subject as a wight.

Fitz10019

2014-01-20, 05:06 PM

Emperor Tippy

2014-01-20, 05:19 PM

When I want to release prisoners. Chopping off the arms and legs is a great way to keep non psionic characters from causing trouble.

Nettlekid

2014-01-20, 05:54 PM

I had a character that lost his eyes to some creature. The same character had a randomly-chosen background complication: castrated. After he lost his eyes, he went for a Regeneration casting. The DM ruled that the spell automatically addressed the oldest injury first, so I had to pay again to get my eyes back. I tried to play the character more aggressively after that.

When I want to release prisoners. Chopping off the arms and legs is a great way to keep non psionic characters from causing trouble.

These both fall into the whole "not actually a D&D RAW thing but instead logical and reasonable roleplaying." Like by D&D standards, you probably can't cut off a leg. You just do damage to it, which does damage to the person as a whole, and they die at -10 HP.

Grim Revenge (http://dndtools.eu/spells/book-of-vile-darkness--37/grim-revenge--208/) came up recently in a thread. I thought it was cute.

This is the kind of thing I'm trying to find. Well, not really trying to find, but just want to see if they're out there. So, as of now we have two BoVD spells that involve turning someone's body part into a weapon and it probably gets destroyed in the process. What else is there? Are there any spells that outright cut off a limb?

holywhippet

2014-01-20, 06:06 PM

About the only severing I can think of is vorpal weapons which remove the head. Of course, regenerate isn't going to help in that case.

Mr Adventurer

2014-01-20, 06:19 PM

About the only severing I can think of is vorpal weapons which remove the head. Of course, regenerate isn't going to help in that case.

Nonsense. In one game we had a Persistent Wartroll with acid immunity. A vorpal axe chopped off his head; we panicked to get it back on within the same round so it could reattach instead of him growing a new one and so losing the spells prepared in his bonus slots from his Headband of Intellect.

OT, there's a golem in Heroes of Horror that can steal whichever body parts it likes.

Telonius

2014-01-20, 06:33 PM

Flesh to Stone mishaps could require it. If the statue breaks before you Stone to Flesh, the person comes back with a missing part.

ShurikVch

2014-01-20, 06:34 PM

Heartclutch (BoVD, pg. 98) - restore heart or die in 1d3 rounds
Lahm’s Finger Darts (BoVD, pg. 98) - you shoot your fingers to the enemies
Vile Rebellion (Dragon #300, pg. 57) - arms, legs, and torso fall away ant turn into zombies. Head is alive, but constant Wis drain eventually drive it insane. To restore affected character, put all parts back together, cast Dispell Evil, then Regenerate.

EDIT: Decerebrate (XPH)
Without extreme measures, such as greater restoration or some other suitable effect of 7th level or higher, the creature perishes in 1d4 days.

holywhippet

2014-01-20, 06:35 PM

Psyren

2014-01-20, 06:41 PM

Decerebrate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/decerebrate.htm) is another use for it.

Mr Adventurer

2014-01-20, 07:09 PM

That isn't the spell though but a troll's natural ability. I'm also unsure if that would work since I don't see anything in the war troll description that says it can survive decapitation regardless of whether it can regenerate or not.

What do you mean by persistent exactly?

Fair enough, it was all a bit on the hoof. Hilarious though.

He was a Soulcaster using the class ability to freely Persist a Draconic Polymorph spell.

sideswipe

2014-01-20, 07:28 PM

if someone casts grim revenge on you.

TuggyNE

2014-01-20, 07:32 PM

Calimehter

2014-01-20, 08:15 PM

When I want to release prisoners. Chopping off the arms and legs is a great way to keep non psionic characters from causing trouble.

:smalleek:

"Uhhh . . . . you know, I think I'll just stay here in prison and wait for the *next* group of adventurers to break in and save me. I mean, the food isn't *that* bad, really. Thanks for the effort, though! I do appreciate it, I really do . . . "

TuggyNE

2014-01-20, 08:39 PM

:smalleek:

"Uhhh . . . . you know, I think I'll just stay here in prison and wait for the *next* group of adventurers to break in and save me. I mean, the food isn't *that* bad, really. Thanks for the effort, though! I do appreciate it, I really do . . . "

What Tippy means is that, when first imprisoned, their arms and legs have already been chopped off as a precautionary measure.

Emperor Tippy

2014-01-20, 09:04 PM

What Tippy means is that, when first imprisoned, their arms and legs have already been chopped off as a precautionary measure.

Yep. And if they are a real concern then they loose their eyes, ears, and tongue as well.

And then you usually get stuffed into a nice custom fitted (thanks to shrink item) steel cast with a slot on the back for a chain to attach to and get hung from the ceiling.

Escaping from that is generally a pain unless you are a Psion.

sideswipe

2014-01-20, 09:20 PM

Escaping from that is generally a pain unless you are a Psion.

"ah your a psion. well in that case we should just kill you now."

rmnimoc

2014-01-20, 09:24 PM

Yep. And if they are a real concern then they loose their eyes, ears, and tongue as well.

And then you usually get stuffed into a nice custom fitted (thanks to shrink item) steel cast with a slot on the back for a chain to attach to and get hung from the ceiling.

Escaping from that is generally a pain unless you are a Psion.
Or a sorcerer with still and silent spell and no need for material components. Or a druid (wildshape). Or a cleric because divine shenanigans. Or a wizard, since this was clearly all part of their convoluted gambit to take over the multiverse, where he foiled your plot, killed you, replaced you with a simulacrum, and intentionally had it maim him to distract suspicion from your death. Because any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from Batman. Actually, you should just kill any caster you capture, because spellcasters can and will find a way to ruin things.

Emperor Tippy

2014-01-20, 09:37 PM

Or a sorcerer with still and silent spell and no need for material components.
Yes, that one works as well. However every Psionic character already has that without having to spend 3 feats.

Or a druid (wildshape).
Pop a hood on them and that doesn't work. You can't alter your form into an area too large to hold your new form and very few druids can Wildshape into a form that can otherwise just get out of it.

Or a cleric because divine shenanigans.
Most divine spells have components and relatively few help in such a situation.

Or a wizard, since this was clearly all part of their convoluted gambit to take over the multiverse, where he foiled your plot, killed you, replaced you with a simulacrum, and intentionally had it maim him to distract suspicion from your death. Because any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from Batman. Actually, you should just kill any caster you capture, because spellcasters can and will find a way to ruin things.
Killing casters is phenomenally stupid. They just come right back to life. Instead you drain all of their stats down to 0 (with Con to 1), Polymorph Any Object them into a rock twice so that its permanent, hand the rock to any creature, stuff that creature into Smokey Confinement, have that SC vial stuffed into a horde gullet on a creature that has a Selective (You) Dweomer of Transference up, hit said creature with a Temporal Stasis, and then throw said creature into a star or black hole a couple galaxies away.

Glimbur

2014-01-20, 09:43 PM

"ah your a psion. well in that case we should just kill you now."

If you're lazy you can just beat them unconscious. Feeding them becomes nontrivial, and Tippy's solution is more thorough, but nonlethal damage is worth considering if you are strapped for resources.

Kelb_Panthera

2014-01-20, 09:46 PM

That eye gouging the fellow upthread mentioned wasn't necessarily a DM ruling. There's a creature in the fiend folio that goes around stealing eyes with one of its special attacks.

Urpriest

2014-01-20, 10:04 PM

That eye gouging the fellow upthread mentioned wasn't necessarily a DM ruling. There's a creature in the fiend folio that goes around stealing eyes with one of its special attacks.

There's one in MMV that does that too, the gadacro.

They come back.

rmnimoc

2014-01-20, 10:29 PM

Yes, that one works as well. However every Psionic character already has that without having to spend 3 feats.
The fact Psionics do it better doesn't keep it from doing it.

Pop a hood on them and that doesn't work. You can't alter your form into an area too large to hold your new form and very few druids can Wildshape into a form that can otherwise just get out of it.
Wildshape into something smaller than you are. Unless I'm missing something there.

Most divine spells have components and relatively few help in such a situation.
I meant the divine doing the shenanigans, not the cleric. Anyone with cleric WIS would be at risk of going insane if they tried to pull shenanigans. Best they leave that to things with infinite cosmic power and no wisdom at all. Like gods. Or...

Killing casters is phenomenally stupid. They just come right back to life. Instead you drain all of their stats down to 0 (with Con to 1), Polymorph Any Object them into a rock twice so that its permanent, hand the rock to any creature, stuff that creature into Smokey Confinement, have that SC vial stuffed into a horde gullet on a creature that has a Selective (You) Dweomer of Transference up, hit said creature with a Temporal Stasis, and then throw said creature into a star or black hole a couple galaxies away.
That right there makes me almost postive you are secretly a supervillain. You fall into scheming such things with too much ease. I'd be calling wizard, but there isn't enough shenanigans in that quote to justify it. That said I think some mental stat drain-mundane mindr___-reincarnation shenanigans would work wonders in that situation. A PC with professions (interrogator) and (psychologist) sounds rather fun now that I think of it. The last thing this game needs is Jack Slash.

Kelb_Panthera

2014-01-20, 10:31 PM

There's one in MMV that does that too, the gadacro.

They come back.

Found it. Ocularon; it not only steals your eyes but animates them into little guided gas bombs. They don't grow back naturally and will need to be magically restored.

@ rmnimoc:

Tippy being a supervillain is no secret. He's already taken over one universe. Where do you think we got the term Tippyverse?

lunar2

2014-01-20, 10:37 PM

iirc, the murder of crows swarm from tome of magic pecks out the eyes of any creature in its square.

TuggyNE

2014-01-20, 10:42 PM

Instead you drain all of their stats down to 0 (with Con to 1), Polymorph Any Object them into a rock twice so that its permanent, hand the rock to any creature, stuff that creature into Smokey Confinement, have that SC vial stuffed into a horde gullet on a creature that has a Selective (You) Dweomer of Transference up, hit said creature with a Temporal Stasis, and then throw said creature into a star or black hole a couple galaxies away.

This sounds familiar somehow. "Ah, how should I do it? Oh, I know. I'll turn him into a flea, a harmless, little flea. And then I'll put that flea in a box, and then I'll put that box inside of another box, and then I'll mail that box to myself. And when it arrives, AH HA HA HA, I'll SMASH IT WITH A HAMMER!"

:smalltongue:

Emperor Tippy

2014-01-20, 10:48 PM

This sounds familiar somehow. "Ah, how should I do it? Oh, I know. I'll turn him into a flea, a harmless, little flea. And then I'll put that flea in a box, and then I'll put that box inside of another box, and then I'll mail that box to myself. And when it arrives, AH HA HA HA, I'll SMASH IT WITH A HAMMER!"

:smalltongue:

There is also making Clone's of him and then killing him repeatedly until he runs down to 1 HD and then run his Con down as well.

Coming back from that type of death is very difficult.

rmnimoc

2014-01-20, 10:58 PM

There is also making Clone's of him and then killing him repeatedly until he runs down to 1 HD and then run his Con down as well.

Coming back from that type of death is very difficult.
Just one minor problem.
"provided that the soul is free and willing to return"

deuxhero

2014-01-20, 11:19 PM

There is also making Clone's of him and then killing him repeatedly until he runs down to 1 HD and then run his Con down as well.

Coming back from that type of death is very difficult.

What's wrong with the flesh to stone+rock to mud+purify food and drink (diluting the mud beforehand if needed) combo?

Flame of Anor

2014-01-21, 02:37 AM

What's wrong with the flesh to stone+rock to mud+purify food and drink (diluting the mud beforehand if needed) combo?

Rock to mud only affects natural stone. Besides, purify food and drink has the text "the spell has no effect on creatures of any type", and the mud is still technically a creature.

Baroknik

2014-01-21, 02:48 AM

No mention of vats of quintessence? I'm surprised!

Gemini476

2014-01-21, 02:53 AM

I don't really see why Tippy doesn't just throw his prisoners into Quintessence vats, but whatever. I guess sometimes you need access to them?
Also, why on earth would you remove the ears? That's not to the pain at all!

As for more reasons to use Regenerate and regenerate-like effects, cutting of a Hydra's heads or a giant squids tentacles are both RAW.

Also, if you give Pixies Rings of Regeneration that they wear on their right hands and use the left hands as infinitely replenishable targets for Create Crawling Claw, then you are well on your way towards minituarizing the skeleputer. Crawling Claws are pretty great as logic gates, actually.

How does Vorpal interact with creatures that don't need a head to live, by the way? Like Hydras, for instance.

TuggyNE

2014-01-21, 05:57 AM

How does Vorpal interact with creatures that don't need a head to live, by the way? Like Hydras, for instance.

It cuts off (one of) their head(s), but otherwise does not affect them.

Bronk

2014-01-21, 10:02 AM

You could regenerate after being tricked into using a false 'something' of Vecna, or regrowing a limb if you've had second thoughts about a body part replacing graft.

Also, there used to be traps that would trick you into putting a limb into a hole, then chop it off. I've never seen them described in 3.5 though...

Jeff the Green

2014-01-21, 10:08 AM

Just one minor problem.

Clone doesn't have that caveat. It can force you to resurrect.

Uncle Pine

2014-01-21, 10:14 AM

Also, why on earth would you remove the ears? That's not to the pain at all!

For fun. Deafened (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#deafened) characters cannot hear, take a -4 penalty on initiative checks, automatically fail Listen checks, and have a 20% chance of spell failure when casting spells with verbal components.

hymer

2014-01-21, 10:25 AM

Agincourt

2014-01-21, 11:48 AM

Clone doesn't have that caveat. It can force you to resurrect.

I'm trying to figure out what you are saying here. Clone spell restates the caveat again. "This spell makes an inert duplicate of a creature. If the original individual has been slain, its soul immediately transfers to the clone, creating a replacement (provided that the soul is free and willing to return)."

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clone.htm

Specific rules trump general rules, but in this case the specific rule restates the general rule.

Psyren

2014-01-21, 11:52 AM

Tome of Magic has some magical teeth that can get you taken over by something alien. There it's described that removing a tooth is a fullround action (yeah right!), and that Regenerate can replace lost teeth.

You probably could remove a tooth in less than 6 seconds if you were desperate enough, so a full-round is a decent average I think :smalltongue:

lunar2

2014-01-21, 11:59 AM

For fun. Deafened (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#deafened) characters cannot hear, take a -4 penalty on initiative checks, automatically fail Listen checks, and have a 20% chance of spell failure when casting spells with verbal components.

simply cutting off the ears won't deafen someone, though. it just impedes directional hearing.

Calimehter

2014-01-21, 12:00 PM

What Tippy means is that, when first imprisoned, their arms and legs have already been chopped off as a precautionary measure.

Ah, that makes more sense. For some reason, I read it as needing to remove the arms and legs in order to liberate the prisoners. Unbreakable manacles in an AMF or something like that (not that that's unsolvable either, but you get the idea).

Carry on!

Gemini476

2014-01-21, 12:16 PM

For fun. Deafened (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#deafened) characters cannot hear, take a -4 penalty on initiative checks, automatically fail Listen checks, and have a 20% chance of spell failure when casting spells with verbal components.

I was referencing Princess Bride, but alright. That makes sense.

...The Princess Bride would make a pretty awesome campaign, come to think of it.

Uncle Pine

2014-01-21, 01:41 PM

simply cutting off the ears won't deafen someone, though. it just impedes directional hearing.

Which,broadly speaking means that someone who lacks outer ears is preatty much deafened. 3.5e lacks the "partially deafened due to outer ears loss" condition (I don't know if PF fixed this flaw), thus I think that it could be a reasonable approximation. By the way, should be proven RAW that merely cutting someone's ears won't deafen him, I'm pretty sure that a Tippyverse wizard would proceed to pierce a prisoner's eardrums. Or just cast an undispellable Blindness/Deafness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/blindnessDeafness.htm) on him.

nobodez

2014-01-21, 02:28 PM

Well, while we've long gone past the initial prospect of the OP, I have some anti-spellcaster ideas.

The easiest way I know of truly killing a character, with no chance of return, is the mind seed power, or rather, the Mind Seed Pearl universal item (page 174 of the XPH). Have your trained monkey use the Mind Seed Pearl against your target, then shove them in your time accelerated demiplane of choice, and suddenly, you've got yourself the body of an enemy spellcaster with the mind of a monkey (and not even at trained monkey at that). Really, as long as the user of the Mind Seed Pearl is less than or equal to eighth level, and had abyssmal mental stats (the closer to 0 the better), then you're golden.

Psyren

2014-01-21, 05:37 PM

Petrocorus

2014-01-21, 05:59 PM

About the only severing I can think of is vorpal weapons which remove the head. Of course, regenerate isn't going to help in that case.
BTW, in previous edition, there was a lesser version of vorpal weapon which could cut a limb on a crit, but not the head. Does that still exist? I haven't seen it in.

Nonsense. In one game we had a Persistent Wartroll with acid immunity.

BTW, what book the War Troll is from?

Chronos

2014-01-21, 06:46 PM

That was a sword of wounding, and no, they don't exist any more.

Mr Adventurer

2014-01-21, 06:55 PM

BTW, in previous edition, there was a lesser version of vorpal weapon which could cut a limb on a crit, but not the head. Does that still exist? I haven't seen it in.

BTW, what book the War Troll is from?

Monster Manual 3 I think.

That was a sword of wounding, and no, they don't exist any more.

Sword of Sharpness.

Venger

2014-01-21, 08:15 PM

Killing casters is phenomenally stupid. They just come right back to life. Instead you drain all of their stats down to 0 (with Con to 1), Polymorph Any Object them into a rock twice so that its permanent, hand the rock to any creature, stuff that creature into Smokey Confinement, have that SC vial stuffed into a horde gullet on a creature that has a Selective (You) Dweomer of Transference up, hit said creature with a Temporal Stasis, and then throw said creature into a star or black hole a couple galaxies away.

That's pretty darn complete (of course)

How does it interact with the teleport function of Wish?

If one were to Wish that the target reappeared in front of them, could they teleport him back to begin the lengthy healing process?

Psyren

2014-01-21, 08:21 PM

A black hole might kill them and they'd come back. PHB:

Damage taken by the new form can result in the injury or death of the polymorphed creature. For example, it is possible to polymorph a creature into rock and then grind it to dust, causing damage, perhaps even death. If the creature was changed to dust to start with, more creative methods to damage it would be needed. Perhaps you could use a gust of wind spell to scatter the dust far and wide. In general, damage occurs when the new form is changed through physical force, although the DM must adjudicate many of these situations.

The massive force of being compressed to a singularity would rupture the hoard gullet, which would in turn rupture the smokey focus, which would in turn bring the rock back and compress that too - which would definitely count as "changed through physical force" and they would die.