Total newb to 4e, help with class please

[dkazriel]

So Ive never played 4th ed before and some friends of mine are putting together a group. I don't know what much of anyone else is playing. I do know one guy to likes to really min/max is playing a half-orc "slayer", not sure what a slayer is.

I have a couple concerns. First with that guy that likes to min/max I want to make sure that my character will be able to at least be fun to play and not blown out of the water by my friend. I don't need to feel broken and over powered (although if I am I won't complain lol) but I want to feel I pull my own weight within the group.

Ok so I love love love the flavor of Death Knights from World of Warcraft and that's what I'm going to try recreating. All books are allowed. From what I've found so far the blackguard seems to be fairly close. I've done a little reading on them and they seem to be able to do some frost based damage which is awesome. Personally I'm a little more concerned about the flavor of my character than I am about the raw numbers. I don't care if I'm a dps type character or tank type character, though typically I lean towards tanks.

I'd really really like to play a minotaur but if they are just awful for what I'm going for I'll look at other races.

I appreciate any and all help with this, thank you in advance.

[Kurald Galain]

What level are you starting at? How long is this campaign expected to last - a couple of levels, or a dozen, or all the way up to max epic?

[dkazriel]

Starting at 1 and no idea how long this will last. I've never played a campaign in my life that lasted more than a few levels anyways.

[Kurald Galain]

Starting at 1 and no idea how long this will last. I've never played a campaign in my life that lasted more than a few levels anyways.

Good. That means you can ignore balance issues (since they aren't really relevant until level 8 or so) and just pick the class you like. So go for a minotaur blackguard already.

[dkazriel]

I know nothing of building the character itself. Last time I played DnD with was AD&D or 2nd ed non-weapon proficiency and such. So these daily powers and such make no sense to me. I'm looking for help with what to do for at least the first 5 levels or so. Sort of a guiding idea or things I should keep in mind or build towards. Everyone else I'm playing with has experience in 4th ed.

[Mando Knight]

How much material does your DM allow? If it's everything (and someone in your group has access to D&D Insider), the Blackguard Guide (http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/3018466) from the WotC forums will highlight some of the better options (Minotaur aren't bad, and if you want undead on top of that, Revenants are undead that also count as one otherwise-living race, and are also suitable for some Blackguard builds).

At higher levels, Wintertouched, Lasting Frost (both are feats, one requires you to be level 11 first), and a magical Frost Weapon combine to make a reliable and potent source of Cold damage if the existing Blackguard options don't add enough for you... and Dread Smite alone makes Lasting Frost extremely tempting.

Blackguards are among the toughest Strikers around, with high HP and several Surges (using the standard Defender's rates), and starting with Plate armor proficiency for free (the other Paladin variants and the Knight are the only other (sub)classes that can claim that).

Unfortunately, the Half-Orc Slayer is already running an off-tank melee DPR character by virtue of the class (barring an unexpected archery-Slayer, which drops its Power Strike feature for range). Depending on the makeup of the group, having two tough melee characters that can't actually keep enemies off of their allies could be a little trouble.

[dkazriel]

Wow thanks Mando Knight. He said that we can use any books but if I can be undead that would be really ****ing cool. Totally playing into the whole Death Knight thing.

I don't think that 4e allows me to get an undead companion does it?

What levels are we talking about for the wintertouched type things? I've read a little about them (in that they're really good) but no idea what they do or when I get them.

I really appreciate all the feedback so quickly!

[Mando Knight]

Lasting Frost is the lynchpin of the frost combo, so you have to be in Paragon (levels 11+) for it to work.

As for an undead companion... 4e heavily restricts your ability to have minion-type characters, though once you get some cash and levels, you can talk to your DM about getting an undead mount (the Adventurer's Vault has some guidelines for gold values for mounts), or you could multiclass into something Arcane to get a familiar (which isn't much of a companion either, but there's a few undead ones in there, if I remember rightly).

[dkazriel]

Do weapon types matter for a blackguard? I'd prefer to use a big ass 2H weapon but if they are more a sword and board type that's cool too.

[allonym]

You definitely want to be using the biggest weapon you can get your hands on. For now, you should look into a Greataxe, a Greatsword or a Maul, depending on whether you like axes, swords or hammers best, then at some point you will want to spend a feat to get a Superior weapon - the upgraded two handed versions being the Executioner's Axe, the Fullblade and the Mordenkrad.

[Kane0]

A Revenant Blackguard would be pretty much a death knight. See if anyone in your group has a DDI subscription so you can use the character builder on the WOTC website. It doesn't really matter what powers and such you pick, just do what the builder recommends if in doubt and you'll be sweet.

[dkazriel]

Advantages or Disadvantages for revenant vs minotaur?

[dkazriel]

OMG! I just read I can be a revenant of a minotaur! This is going to be the sickest character in DnD history (by my standards lol)

[DragonBaneDM]

Advantages or Disadvantages for revenant vs minotaur?

I'm glad you're so excited for your blackguard! So as a Revenant you won't be as physically strong as a Minotaur, but I think you'll be pretty happy as a big horned guy in a porcelain mask, so enjoy!

[neonchameleon]

I know nothing of building the character itself. Last time I played DnD with was AD&D or 2nd ed non-weapon proficiency and such. So these daily powers and such make no sense to me. I'm looking for help with what to do for at least the first 5 levels or so. Sort of a guiding idea or things I should keep in mind or build towards. Everyone else I'm playing with has experience in 4th ed.

OK. 4e for beginners:

4e has narrative pacing, and the rulebooks aren't terribly good at describing this. Your At Will powers are combat abilities you use when you're not sure what to do or are in the background of scenes. You can do them all the time. Your encounter powers are your schticks or your signature moves. You can use them once a fight. Your daily powers are when you bring out the big guns because your back is to the wall.

Healing Surges are the actual measure of damage in 4e. Think of yourself as a boxer, protected because you are wearing a suit of steel armour rather than because your opponent has padded gloves on. When your hit points fall to 0 you've been knocked to the floor and are being counted out like a boxer. But, also like a boxer you can get back on your feet and keep slugging - if no one slits your throat while you are down. Healing surges are your endurance. Run out of those and you've had it - if you don't, then you've stamina left even if you are currently being counted out. And some of your team mates might be able to yell at you to pull yourself together to get back on your feet.

Slayers are quite simply the best people around at hitting with massive two handed swords or axes. They do the most damage per hit, and are accurate - but do nothing beyond this. Run up to people and beat on them hard. You won't outdamage the Slayer, so don't worry about it.

Blackguards hit pretty hard- but that's only a part of what they do. They are (slightly) more generally skilled than Slayers - but their real strength is that they not only hit harder than most people, but they endure thanks to their unnatural vitality. They wear the heaviest armour in the game (Plate armour + Large Shield - only matched by Paladins). Once per fight they can enfold themselves in shadow making them harder to hit unless someone is using area attacks and gaining five temporary hit points (or about half an attack) worth of unnatural vitality. And at second level they can also once per fight steel themselves, gaining +2 to all defences and five temporary hit points. At low levels they both hit hard and are probably the toughest class in the game (their main rival being the Warden who is easier to hit but excels at shrugging off magic - something more relevant at higher levels).

[Mando Knight]

At low levels they both hit hard and are probably the toughest class in the game (their main rival being the Warden who is easier to hit but excels at shrugging off magic - something more relevant at higher levels).

Standard Paladins are slightly tougher than Blackguards, if they use Lay on Hands instead of Ardent Vow or Virtue's Touch, and they definitely have better ways to leverage their toughness thanks to Divine Challenge/Sanction. A Blackguard can go sword & board like Heroes of Shadow recommends, but as a Striker, your job is to find the biggest bloody sword you can get your hands on so you can chop some poor dumb schmuck's head off.

[dkazriel]

I know after reading some about the revenant that he may not be the best choice for a blackguard. I'd probably be much better off with a dragonborn. Add to the fact that the racial thing a revenant gets for minotaur and I think I'm probably losing something there as well. (an extra attack if I reach 0 hp?)

All that aside, that is still (to me) the coolest character I could create and hope for.

Does anyone have suggestions on what I need to take for feats and such to get all that cold damaging abilities? I'm reading this guide http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/3018466 but I can't find it in there.

Now I'm having some difficulty coming up with a story for a minotaur, revenant, blackguard.... any suggestions for why a minotaur might come back from the dead and revel in all things undead/necrotic?

[Gabe]

Now I'm having some difficulty coming up with a story for a minotaur, revenant, blackguard.... any suggestions for why a minotaur might come back from the dead and revel in all things undead/necrotic?

Just off the top of my head I'm thinking of a Minotaur that died in service to a necromancer who was slain by an adventuring party.
Upon being slain, the necromancers corpse was likely looted and possibly burnt, but the minotaurs corpse was left untouched. Over time the dark magics of that place settled over the body of the minotaur and eventually raised him as an undead 'thing' with his own conciousness and free-will.
Eventually the minotaur took up arms and slew the party that killed him and his master. When you did this, you became a blackguard, and unnatural power flooded through your body granting you new power and a purpose.
Just an idea though.

Tldr: Magic.

[Surrealistik]

Here is a L7 'death knight' character (Executioner/Blackguard hybrid) with strongly thematic powers, terrifying enemies before you run them through; been looking forward to playing something like this myself (don't mind the 'houseruled' portions; the offline builder is FUBARed when it comes to hybrid Blackguard at-wills):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7x6tmshx8n1et3o/Dragonborne%20Blackcutioner.pdf

Deals a respectable 3d8+1d6+16 damage at-will on a charge with CA (+2 extra while you or the target is bloodied) without any other enhancements like Dread Smite or Assassin's Strike. Later you'll qualify for Surprising Charge to add another 1d8.

Risky Shift + Badge of the Berserker + Instinctive Flight nearly always guarantees that you'll be able to charge a target of your choice.

Rain of Hammers Ki Focus allows you to carve a swath through a bunch of adjacent minions.

Haunted Blade background is there so you can more easily Intimidate and cow bloodied opponents into abject submission to your badassery.

[GPuzzle]

Considering there is already a deadly Striker hitting hard and fast in the group, if you want the thematic, become a Paladin and refluff. 4e is awesome because you can refluff just about everything. You don't really need to make hybrids unless you care about the mechanics. And there are enough classes to make some old combos obsolete.
For example, if you want to be a Death Knight, Paladin of the Raven Queen (Unaligned Goddess of Death, bordering True Neutral - it's better if you think like that, Kord used to be Chaotic Good, and he is Unaligned. Erathis and Melora are Unaligned, even though one is Lawful Neutral and the other is Chaotic Neutral) and refluff your Paladin attacks with things like Radiant to Cold. Which thematically fits, because the Raven Queen is also the Goddess of Winter and Fate.

[dkazriel]

Just off the top of my head I'm thinking of a Minotaur that died in service to a necromancer who was slain by an adventuring party.
Upon being slain, the necromancers corpse was likely looted and possibly burnt, but the minotaurs corpse was left untouched. Over time the dark magics of that place settled over the body of the minotaur and eventually raised him as an undead 'thing' with his own conciousness and free-will.
Eventually the minotaur took up arms and slew the party that killed him and his master. When you did this, you became a blackguard, and unnatural power flooded through your body granting you new power and a purpose.
Just an idea though.

Tldr: Magic.

I'm stealing this story, assuming you don't mind of course. I figure since you put it out there you don't. That's an awesome idea though, i really liked it. It gave a reason for all of it and it's not a stretch or the typical "my family was killed i'm seeking revenge" thing.

Thanks so much to EVERYONE for the feedback!

[dkazriel]

Ok here's my character. Let me know if anyone sees any glaring problems.

Level 1 Revenant - Minotaur, Blackguard

Str - 18
Con - 11
Dex - (10+2) 12
Int - 10
Wis - 8
Cha - (14+2) 16

Trained Skills
Athletics
Bluff
Endurance
Intimidate

Powers
Valiant Strike

Feat
Power of Skill

Vice of Fury

Plate armor and Greataxe


Now do I get other abilities that I can use for being a revenant or blackguard at lvl 1 or is my valiant strike and a regular attack all I can do every turn?

[GPuzzle]

You get all the Renevant powers right from the start, a few other things from being a Blackguard (can't remember what), and I recommend dumping Intelligence instead of Wisdom - Paladins use it as their riders, and this helps a lot. A few feats are awesome for a lot of builds, my favourite being Honored Foe at Paragon (THP every time someone that almost has to attack you attacks you? Awesome), but with your high Charisma, a few Divine-Sanction powers would be really good.

[dkazriel]

So the slayer in the group is saying he'll be doing 70 damage a round.

That's insane for a lvl 1. What's the point in having anyone else?

[Surrealistik]

70 DPR as an L1 Slayer?

Bull****.

[dkazriel]

70 DPR as an L1 Slayer?

Bull****.

The DM's response to my comments...

"He does pure damage, he cant do any skill checks

he is a half orc with a weapon, no social skills as it were"

[Surrealistik]

I don't think that's possible period without DM fiat or some ridiculous magical item allotments; if it were I would have seen it in my FTDM PvP games.

[dkazriel]

I don't think that's possible period without DM fiat or some ridiculous magical item allotments; if it were I would have seen it in my FTDM PvP games.

How is this game going to be fun for anyone else involved if this guys doing more dmg than the rest of the group combined?

[Mando Knight]

I don't think that's possible period without DM fiat or some ridiculous magical item allotments; if it were I would have seen it in my FTDM PvP games.

A Paladin or Barbarian might be able to make a 70 damage hit at level 1... as a daily, with a crit... and a High Crit weapon...

[Laserlight]

So the slayer in the group is saying he'll be doing 70 damage a round.

That's insane for a lvl 1. What's the point in having anyone else?

Half orc slayer with 20 STR, great axe +1 ...I can see something like 42, if he happens to get a crit while using Furious Assault and Power Attack. But he average DPR is going to be more like 15.

[Surrealistik]

A Paladin or Barbarian might be able to make a 70 damage hit at level 1... as a daily, with a crit... and a High Crit weapon...

I'm talking about DPR.

[dkazriel]

Have you guys experienced playing with people like this? Especially if the DM is in on it. I know they are great friends so I wouldn't put it past them to be doing something so he can have a broken character. I have a feeling the other players and I are going to feel like background characters in this one players world rather than a group of players in the DM's world.

[Gavran]

Have you guys experienced playing with people like this? Especially if the DM is in on it. I know they are great friends so I wouldn't put it past them to be doing something so he can have a broken character. I have a feeling the other players and I are going to feel like background characters in this one players world rather than a group of players in the DM's world.

Munchkins aren't exactly rare. Talk to your DM and group about expected optimization levels. It's probably more likely that he's wrong about his DPR than that the DM has given him super special treatment.

[Kurald Galain]

70 DPR is the expected average for middle paragon tier. A player that's doing anything remotely close to that at level one is either mistaken about the rules or outright cheating.

A good figure for a level 1 is for example a rogue, who can do 1d8 (rapier) + 3d8 (sneak attack) + 5 (dex) +4 (brutal scoundrel) = 27 damage, multiply by 75% hit rate and you get 23 DPR. You can surely get a few points higher than that if you're really into optimizing, but any DPR figure of 30 or higher at level 1 is really not believable.

[GPuzzle]

The closest thing I can think of is that he does 70 damage throughout the battle. He would have to be a Ranger spamming Twin Strike with Ruffling Sting and Off-Hand Strike, with Double Waraxes, critting every attack and that's pushing it to Encounter Nova territory.

[Surrealistik]

70 DPR is the expected average for middle paragon tier. A player that's doing anything remotely close to that at level one is either mistaken about the rules or outright cheating.

A good figure for a level 1 is for example a rogue, who can do 1d8 (rapier) + 3d8 (sneak attack) + 5 (dex) +4 (brutal scoundrel) = 27 damage, multiply by 75% hit rate and you get 23 DPR. You can surely get a few points higher than that if you're really into optimizing, but any DPR figure of 30 or higher at level 1 is really not believable.

3d8 sneak attack? Where's the extra dice from? Add to the fact that 20 Dex with 18 Str is impossible, you have a DPR of only 21.5 before accuracy, and ~16 after: (4.5*3+4+4)*.7+(8*3+4+4)*.05.

Any post-accuracy, at-will DPR over 20 at L1 (assuming no magic items) is suspicious, and any post-accuracy, at-will DPR over 25 is probably straight up cheating/misinterpretation. You could make a theoretical exception for some multitargets/AoE at-wills (pimped out Hand of Radiance comes to mind), but even that is unlikely to be consistently sustainable round after round.

[georgie_leech]

Hm. What would the DPR be if the DM mistakenly that X[W] Powers also multiplied assorted bonuses (like STR) as well as base weapon dice?

[Kurald Galain]

Hm. What would the DPR be if the DM mistakenly that X[W] Powers also multiplied assorted bonuses (like STR) as well as base weapon dice?
At first level, you'd be hard pressed to find any 3[W] powers (well, there are dailies that do that, but the slayer doesn't get dailies). So 2[W] is the best you can do. If you treat that as "double damage", which it emphatically is not, then you still get nowhere near 70 DPR.

(edit) wait, half-orc slayer gets to combine Furious Assault and Power Strike for a 3[W] attack, but that's once per encounter, not at-will. It's also still doesn't do anywhere near 70 damage; perhaps if you treat it as "triple damage" and roll a crit, something like that? Anyway you should drag the DM to this forum so we can tell him that doesn't work :smallbiggrin:


"He does pure damage, he cant do any skill checks
(edit) Also, the notion that this character can't do skill checks is bogus. He gets three trained skills out of the box and surely has two decent ability scores to base them on. Sure, he's no skill monkey, but neither is he useless out of combat.

[Mando Knight]

I'm talking about DPR.

Well, yes. If 70-ish is close to a top-shelf nova at that level, then per-round is utterly ludicrous.

[Gabe]

Yeah dude, by all means go ahead and use that if it's something you'd want to use.

Fingers crossed the DM is just exaggerating the amount of damage he can do, because a lvl 1 slayer would not be doing 70 dpr. He might get a critical for say 30 damage but Ihonestly ddon't see how anyone at lvl 1 could hope to do anywhere near that damage.
See how the game goes, if he does do said 70 damage call them on their bs. Tell them to break down the maths and where all the damage is coming from.
Slayers don't even have dailies, just stances that give them extra utility, and power attack let's them add one extra weapon die. That's literally all they have at lvl 1 :/

Hope you sort it though.

[dkazriel]

I don't want to ruffle any feathers in the group but at the same time I don't want to feel useless in combat situations b/c this guy has a broken character and is a whirlwind of death. He says he's a spawn of Baal or some **** and does crazy damage. I'll probably wait it out, see how it goes. When I get the math I will post it here.

This community is awesome btw, thanks again everyone!

[Gabe]

Dude, at the end of the day the DM's job to make sure that everyone at the table is having a good time. You're well within your rights to be worried about the enjoyment of the game if someone's going to be home brewing their own feats if that indeed is what they're doing.

If the dude is using DnD insider ask if he could copy/paste you the text part of his character sheet and we'll take a look at it on here or something to debunk it.

[GPuzzle]

You know, most really optimized characters have 10, 11, 12 DPR at level 1.
We're talking Rangers optimized to be useful in all situations. He can't do skill checks, but, even then, Twin Strike (as it is DPR insanity) is going to do around 2d10 if all hit. Emphasis on the if. I think even Level 1 Novas can't do 70 damage (unless we're talking Jaws of The Wolf and Off-Hand Strike + Quarry and Twin Strike).

[Excession]

I think the easiest way to get 70 damage in one round would be to misread "1[W]+Str" as using his strength score rather than strength mod. Even with that, you still need two hits using an action point and half-orc and slayer encounter damage, but the result is roughly 70 depending on weapon used.

[Mando Knight]

We're talking Rangers optimized to be useful in all situations. He can't do skill checks, but, even then, Twin Strike (as it is DPR insanity) is going to do around 2d10 if all hit.

2d10+1d6+2, 2d10+1d8, or 2d10+1d6, depending on the player's feat priority.

[dkazriel]

Anyone have any suggestions for another "dark" oriented class? Like, warlock, assassins, thief? Something along those lines.

[Gabe]

Assassins are "dark" in that they use shadow magic. They're a striker with controller secondary (fropm what I've seen) as opposed to the blackguard who's a Striker with Defender secondary.

Warlock's, Mages from the essentials line can be "dark" by focussing on Necromancy as a school of casting.

Thinking about it though, any class can be "dark" depending on how you RP it. Even Paladins can be evil and therefore "dark" now-a-days at any rate.

[GPuzzle]

Heck, a Paladin of the Raven Queen can be dark and Lawful Good!

[MunkeeGamer]

Anyone have any suggestions for another "dark" oriented class? Like, warlock, assassins, thief? Something along those lines.

Classes are primarily a source of gameplay mechanics with names that match up with a certain flavor.

It will be more productive for your table top fun (usually) to choose the gameplay mechanics you like and refluff the class and skill names to be dark. In this way, you get gameplay functionality that you like but any kind of story you want to go with it.

Some examples I've used in the past few months I've played 4e-- refluffing the sorcerer elementalist as a ranged psionic striker. The PHB3 didn't have what I wanted, so I went with the elementalist and just called it all psionic damage.

Another, maybe more subtle refluff, is a sand based genasi swordmage from Athas, the Dark Sun campaign world. She's the group's defender, but she uses a huge two hander and all her swordmage spells are renamed to have a sand-based, Gaara-like theme.

That said, you mentioned preferring the tank role. In 4e, the tank role is all about getting up in enemies' faces and making them regret making any decisions. There are several ways to do this. I would suggest going through the list of defenders and learning how their defender mark (or aura) works. Once you find one that clicks with you, pick that class, and rework the story and ability names to suit your character's story as an undead deathknight.

[Leewei]

70 DPR as an L1 Slayer?

Bull****.

Agreed.

Let's say for a moment that your DM is talking best case scenario. A slayer adds both Str and Dex to damage, for a total of +8 maximum at level 1. Slayers have an encounter power that allows them to add +1[W] to a single attack. Half-orcs have a similar racial ability. Assuming he's using a fullblade and crits, that'd be 4d12+8, or a maximum of 56 damage with one attack. Crits would maximize the first d12, but I don't think it'd affect the additional dice since they're added after the attack hits.

Also, slayers use stances which can boost damage. If he's in single combat, I believe there's a stance that gives him +4 Power bonus to damage. The attack would be fairly impressive, even if it didn't crit. 3d12+8(Str+Dex)+4(Power) yields an average of 31.5 damage.

Throw in an Action Point action for another basic attack, and he does another d12+8+4, or an average of 18.5 extra damage, bumping the total for the round to 50. Maximum, non-crit damage in this situation would be 72.

The average for a hit would be 18.5. Encounter powers and crits can give some spectacular variation to this, but most hits would be a tad under 20hp damage.

[neonchameleon]

70 DPR as an L1 Slayer?

Bull****.

Indeed. Someone's cheating, someone's lying, someone's screwed up badly, or there are some horrible house rules there. No other possibility.


The DM's response to my comments...

"He does pure damage, he cant do any skill checks

he is a half orc with a weapon, no social skills as it were"

Doesn't happen in 4e. You always get three trained skills at a minimum, so you aren't locked out entirely from any part of the game.

[Yakk]

Attack. Crit. Roll max on all dice. Action point. Attack. Crit. Roll max on all dice.

Using a +1 great axe (d12 high crit), two handed weapon expertise, weapon focus (+2 damage on charge, +1 otherwise)

Power Attack (12) Furous Assault (12)
18/18 stats (+8 flat to each hit), stance (+4? I forget).

Attack and action point attack.

6[W] +(8+1+4)*2 static + 1 (charge) +2d6 (crit dice)

111 max damage on one round, or (assuming non-crit dice are maximized) 95 average.

Now, this requires rolling 2 20s in a row, and maxing every damage die, and burning every encounter resource you have.

Average assuming everything merely hits is 4[W] + 13*2+1 = 53.

Accuracy is +4(str)+2(prof)+1(enh)+1(exprt)+(1/2)(charge)=+9.5 vs AC.

Against a level 1 foe with 15 AC we get .75+.70 hits and .1 crits. We defer our burst damage abilities for the second attack just in case it crits, so there is a 70% chance they are normal and 10% chance they are maximized.

0.75 * 1 (charge) +
1.45 * (6.5 + 13) +
0.1 * (25 + 6.5+3.5) +
0.7 * (6.5*2) +
0.1 * (24)
= 44.025 average damage from a nova round.

Fullblade costs 0.75 damage (charge boost from THWExpertise) but gains 0.05 * (6.5+13) = 0.975 -- so is better than Great Axe + THWExpertise very slightly on the nova round.

Note that Fullblade is strictly worse than TWFExpertise at level 1, because GreatAxe with Expertise is a Fullblade with an extra point of damage when charging.

---

My favorite anti-paladin is the warlock|paladin hybrid infernallock. But that is a pretty crazy build.

Another dark one that is strong at level one is executioner|warlock (ideally sorc-king).

[Surrealistik]

I have a love/hate relationship with Warlock|Paladin because its action economy is so damned strained despite being legitimately strong and flavourful; minor actions... overwhelming...

Agreed on Executioner|Warlock.