PDA

View Full Version : The ultimate divination



Shisumo
2007-01-24, 12:21 AM
If we assume that Craft Contingent Spell has the same loosey-goosey, frankly idiotic triggering requirements of contingency, for 25 gp and 2 xp, an 11th-level caster can answer any yes/no question you'd like. Any.

This bothers me.

Yzorth
2007-01-24, 12:25 AM
...

...

...

What?!? This allows you to "make" a "contingency" effect that mirrors the "Contingency" spell. If X conditions are met, the spell you set goes off. It has NOTHING to do with divination.

Read the description of "Craft Contingency" again. You will most likely be quite surprised.

Shisumo
2007-01-24, 12:32 AM
...

...

...

What?!? This allows you to "make" a "contingency" effect that mirrors the "Contingency" spell. If X conditions are met, the spell you set goes off. It has NOTHING to do with divination.

Read the description of "Craft Contingency" again. You will most likely be quite surprised.

Yes, it allows you to make a contingent effect if certain conditions are met.

And you get to specify what the conditions are.

Any. Conditions. You. Want.

Want to know whether the dragon is down the left path or the right path? Use CCS or contingency with dancing lights, specifying "the dragon is down the right path." Want to know if the mindblanked fellow over yonder is really evil under that annoying abjuration? Contingent dancing lights with the trigger, "the fellow in the corner is evil."

Etc.

Etc.

Wehrkind
2007-01-24, 12:37 AM
I suppose the problem lies in the level of factual knowledge the spell can be assumed to possess.... interesting.

Bears With Lasers
2007-01-24, 12:38 AM
Yeah, we are told absolutely nothing about what the spell can and can't know.

Shisumo
2007-01-24, 12:51 AM
Yeah, we are told absolutely nothing about what the spell can and can't know.

Honestly, the problem goes even further than that - because the contingency itself may require interpretation, and the only entity capable of making such an interpretation is the spell itself.

I first began having this issue when I read the transcription of Null's barbarian vs. wizard fight with TLN a month or two ago. According to the transcript, TLN had set up a teleport without error that was contingent upon someone "approaching" with, I believe, harmful intent, absent certain "password"-type utterances from TLN that would cancel the effect. When I read that, I found myself thinking, "What if Null hadn't completely foregone magical transport equipment and had possessed, say, a cape of the mountebank and used it to teleport next to TLN in the first round. Would that have qualified as 'approaching' for the contingency?" I mean, teleportation involves being in two different spaces at different times without covering the intervening distance - it could well be argued that "approaching" requires that you cover the intervening space, and thus the teleport wouldn't have set off the contingency. But who would make such a decision?

Only the spell.

It's alive! Alive!!!

I think for future reference I'm going to take Complete Arcane's list of triggers as a very, very sharp guideline, and pretty much rule that you can only set contingencies on things that actually happen to you - taking damage, falling, making a save, failing a save, suffering a specific condition or set of conditions, etc. These are objective, automatically-known events, and I think that it will do much to nerf contingency's power.

Wehrkind
2007-01-24, 02:20 AM
Perhaps a good fix would be to require certain spells be included in the casting of the contingency.
Want the contingency to act based on someone's intent? Better have some sort of mind reading spell to cast with it.
Want it to act when some far away action occurs? You need some scrying.
Basically anything outside the caster's knowledge needs some "sensor" spell to tell the contingency it is happening.

Ashheart
2007-01-24, 05:12 AM
Persopnally, I have always used Contingency more like an automatic quiken spell.
You must know the condition is met, and the contingency does all of the spell casting for you...but after rereading the spell/feat description I too find it too open ended.
It looks like Wizards has made a munchin possibility.....again.

Saph
2007-01-24, 06:35 AM
If we assume that Craft Contingent Spell has the same loosey-goosey, frankly idiotic triggering requirements of contingency, for 25 gp and 2 xp, an 11th-level caster can answer any yes/no question you'd like. Any.

This bothers me.

Nice use of the spell. Very creative. I'm banning Craft Contingent from every campaign I ever run - oh wait, I would have banned it anyway. :)

This is one of those game rules that goes in the "they didn't think about it long enough" category.

- Saph

Thomas
2007-01-24, 07:02 AM
But Craft Contingent spell is great. Combine with Spell Mantle for ultimate Netherese Arcanist lich fun.

Anyway, for me, this whole issue is as simple as "Please don't try to break the game." "Okay, I won't."

SpiderBrigade
2007-01-24, 09:00 AM
This isn't even a particularly fun way to break the game. After you do it 3 times, your DM will just stop giving you challenges that can be beaten by yes/no questions.

Also, don't forget it takes at least a day to craft a contingent spell, which isn't always...practical. (I could be wrong about this. It's 1 day per 1000 GP of the base price, so I guess one might argue that a price less than 1000 takes less than a day. I always assumed it had a minimum of one day, though).