Candle of Invocation + Quintessence

[Silva Stormrage]

Most people know the candle's ludicrous ability to duplicate gate but I was wondering if this makes the other powers of the candle (+2 class levels for clerics preparing spells per day)

Would coating the candle in quintessence allow the candle to be treated as "burning"? Surrounding the candle in a lantern doesn't stop its magic so it isn't blocked by LoE. Not sure if the candle is still treated as being burning while in stasis though. If it does though it allows the candle to last indefinitely and give the cleric +2 levels for pretty cheap.

Second thought, would two candles stack with themselves?

[Manly Man]

For the first question, I would probably rule it that no, it doesn't continue to give its effects indefinitely, but the candle doesn't burn out either, so you can use the quintessence to wring as much usage out of the candle as you happen to need. On top of that, I probably wouldn't allow the candles to stack either, but this is all just entirely judgement based off of my experiences as a DM.

[Psyren]

You get the +2 CL whether the candle is still burning or not - that is a one-time bonus that gets applied to that day's spells. The parts that Quintessence might affect are the ongoing bonuses - "gain access to spells you can't normally cast" and the aligned morale bonus aura, both of which requires the candle to still be burning.

I would say yes, Quintessence would allow you to keep a candle burning longer than 4 hours. However, to gain the two ongoing benefits listed above, you have to scrape the quintessence off it. After all, if the candle is outside of the timestream, it logically should have no ongoing effect on anything that isn't. So while you can prolong a candle this way (i.e. burn it during preparation, and still possibly gain the other benefits more than 4 hours later), you can't benefit indefinitely, since once you start scraping the candle reverts to partial immersion and rejoins time's flow, counting down.

The benefit of this is that there is no moment when the candle is not burning. However, getting access to spells you normally can't cast will be more difficult to do while in combat, since you have to take the time to scrape the candle. This can however be used to gain access to higher-level utility spells.

[Chronos]

I've also seen similar tricks with Unguent of Timelessness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#unguentofTimelessness), which merely slows down time to an extreme degree, not stopping it.

[Psyren]

I've also seen similar tricks with Unguent of Timelessness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#unguentofTimelessness), which merely slows down time to an extreme degree, not stopping it.

That won't work on a candle though, which was never alive. (Barring silly arguments about wax that grind the game to a halt of course.)

[Chronos]

How is it a silly argument? Wax is made from tallow, which used to be part of an animal. It's just as much "used to be alive" as a steak.

[Psyren]

How is it a silly argument? Wax is made from tallow, which used to be part of an animal. It's just as much "used to be alive" as a steak.

1) You're not using the unguent on wax though, you're using it on a candle. The candle was never alive. By the rules they are separate objects - wax is not a candle, and a candle is not wax.

2) The unguent only mentions slowing down time in increments of years and days. While you can presumably extrapolate this down to a candle's 4 hours of burning time, this is not RAW.

[Perseus]

1) You're not using the unguent on wax though, you're using it on a candle. The candle was never alive. By the rules they are separate objects - wax is not a candle, and a candle is not wax.

Somehow awaken the candle then stabby stabby time?

[Manly Man]

Somehow awaken the candle then stabby stabby time?

No, because it's still an object (even if you animated it, it's a construct, not a living thing), so it's destroyed, not killed.

[rmnimoc]

No, because it's still an object (even if you animated it, it's a construct, not a living thing), so it's destroyed, not killed.
Fortunately we have a secret weapon. Just get it polymorph any object. Since the only prereq for the unguent is "matter that was once alive" you can just PAO it into a living thing. That means it was "matter that was once alive" it works.
Alternatively, if you are feeling like a terrible person:
1. Find random person,
2. Double PAO it into a candle,
3. Make the candle into a CoI,
4. Apply unguent,
5. Die in horrible avalanche in the middle of a perfectly flat field with no mountains or hills in sight.

[Phelix-Mu]

Burning is defined by its English use, I'd say. The candle is burning after lit, consuming oxygen in the process of oxidizing the fuel (the wick/wax).

When you dip it in quintessence, the flame may not go out, but the reaction that constitutes the "burning" almost certainly ceases (as the flame needs oxygen/air). The candle may be "lit," but I don't think it's "burning." Again, going off of common English usage of those words.

But, oxygen doesn't exist in-game. It's not even clear that lack of air snuffs a flame by the RAW, but [slippery slope invoked here].

[Psyren]

It wouldn't consume any further oxygen because it is outside the time stream. Just cover the flame last and it will be placed in stasis before it can go out.

[Phelix-Mu]

My point is that I'm not sure something can be "burning" if the reaction has ceased. To "burn" is pretty much defined by that reaction (the consumption of fuel and air). The candle has not gone out, but nothing is happening inside the quintessence, including "burning" (an ongoing process that kind of implies passage of time).

Quintessence should really have a line in the statblock

Effect: See DM

[Psyren]

My point is that I'm not sure something can be "burning" if the reaction has ceased. To "burn" is pretty much defined by that reaction (the consumption of fuel and air). The candle has not gone out, but nothing is happening inside the quintessence, including "burning" (an ongoing process that kind of implies passage of time).

Quintessence should really have a line in the statblock

Effect: See DM

Oh that. Yeah that's actually the gist of what I said earlier, if you want to benefit from the candle "burning" you need to scrape the Quintessence off.

But the benefit is that it didn't actually stop burning either. From the candle's perspective, no time has passed at all and the flame hasn't gone out. So this allows you to light the candle while you prep your spells, get the +2 CL bonus for the day, and then cake it in time-goop if you want the extra spells/aura more than four hours later that day. (Of course, getting those benefits requires removing the time goop, and so the clock starts ticking again.)

[Erik Vale]

Fortunately we have a secret weapon. Just get it polymorph any object. Since the only prereq for the unguent is "matter that was once alive" you can just PAO it into a living thing. That means it was "matter that was once alive" it works.
Alternatively, if you are feeling like a terrible person:
1. Find random person,
2. Double PAO it into a candle,
3. Make the candle into a CoI,
4. Apply unguent,
5. Die in horrible avalanche in the middle of a perfectly flat field with no mountains or hills in sight.

There are actually spells to arrange that, so it wouldn't just be DM fiat. You just have to tick off the wrong wizard, or have a wizard in the fluff hunting down people with CoI's.

Also, that is how you use a loophole. Someone, make this man a lawyer.

[Phelix-Mu]

Honestly, the answer to

Q: Can I use quintessence to do X?

is pretty much "yes." With sufficient creativity, the ability to time-lock things is pretty stupidly useful. Plus, a long-lasting product that can be produced via downtime spamming and stored for a rainy day? That spells E-X-P-L-O-I-T.

[Curmudgeon]

Burning is a process of fuel and oxygen reacting over time to produce heat and light. As soon as you stop the time you stop the burning.

You can do exactly the same thing by blowing out the Candle and lighting it again later.
It is possible to extinguish the candle simply by blowing it out, so users often place it in a lantern to protect it from drafts and the like. Doing this doesn’t interfere with its magical properties. Other than having quintessence while completely lacking any way (all out of tindertwigs, & c.) to re-light the Candle, there's no reason for this use.

[Psyren]

Burning is a process of fuel and oxygen reacting over time to produce heat and light. As soon as you stop the time you stop the burning.

You can do exactly the same thing by blowing out the Candle and lighting it again later. Other than having quintessence while completely lacking any way (all out of tindertwigs, & c.) to re-light the Candle, there's no reason for this use.

There's a difference between "suspended animation" and "no reaction"; if placing a candle in stasis and blowing it out were the same thing, then placing a person in quintessence and killing them would also be the same thing.

While you can relight the candle, you will lose the +2 CL bonus you originally gained during spell preparation because the candle hasn't "continued to burn."

[Jack_Simth]

But, oxygen doesn't exist in-game. It's not even clear that lack of air snuffs a flame by the RAW, but [slippery slope invoked here].
It's not explicitly stated that fires burn oxygen, but check the Suffocation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm#suffocation) rules, particularly the slow suffocation section. They explicitly use up air.