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Nettlekid
2014-01-21, 12:11 AM
In an attempt to flesh out worldbuilding for an upcoming newbie campaign I'm planning, I want to introduce a few NPCs into the world that may or may not be plot-relevant or even come up, but would be there in a capacity to fill a specific role that would be best filled by a notable NPC as opposed to something generic. Like, in most towns it would be easy to have a pretty generic blacksmith NPC tending that town's blacksmithing shop, but if the PCs for some reason decide "Hey, we need to ask around and see if there are any truly exceptional blacksmiths in the surrounding area for X reasons" then I want to have some properly-statted Dwarf with class levels in a PrC that PCs would never take but that makes you good at smithing, because this Dwarf would do that. If the PCs either need a police officer or perhaps get in trouble with the law then in many cases I could send a small squad of Warriors, but it would be cool if they were aware of some Paladin (or Gray Guard) Chief of Police figure that's not to be messed with.

So I have a few questions on this front. Firstly, what are some roles that would be well filled by this kind of NPC? I'm thinking generics, like the smith, alchemist, enchanter/magic shop owner, perhaps some well-known hunter/tracker, priest, etc, although if any more niche roles (like the aforementioned police officer, or a crime boss) are suggested they could probably find a place.

Secondly, should I make more than one of some of them? It would make sense that spread over several cities there might be more than one highly skilled smith or priest. Perhaps they're separated by a few levels so that one is better than the other, or maybe their PrCs separate their skillsets such that while they're the same general category, one can provide services that the other can't.

Third, what's a good level range for these NPCs to be? I'm always tempted to do a fairly unoptimized higher level build because I like the strange and specialized abilities you get at high levels in a PrC, but it would be a bit unrealistic to have a number of level ~15 NPCs just doing regular jobs and not stepping in to stop the BBEG, especially when the PCs are going to start at level 3.

And fourthly, perhaps most importantly, what classes can people suggest that fit these roles? Base classes too, but PrCs are probably the real selling point. I'm looking for unusual classes that are sort of useless to a PC, but described as being good for an NPC. A perfect example is the Bloodhound, and I think I'd add things like Gray Guard, maybe Battlesmith or Ironsoul Forgemaster, Wayfarer Guide, that kind of thing. The more niche and exotic the better, I'd say. Especially since this is a newbie campaign, tossing in things that the characters and players won't recognize as being just some special Sorcerer or Cleric will make for a more interesting world-exploring experience, I hope.

maniacalmojo
2014-01-21, 06:23 AM
In a game i was in there was a level 30 commoner. Led to some really interesting experiences with the party.

maniacalmojo
2014-01-21, 06:27 AM
There are also PC specific classess that would help in most of what you are looking at. Adept, Aristocrat, Commoner, Expert, Warrior are all meant to serve a purpose and are more basic then a PC class but still offer the flavor that a PC would need.

I would recommend making a few basic outlines of characters you can apply to various people and just re fluff the new characters so they do not seem copy pasted.

Spore
2014-01-21, 06:31 AM
Generic roles that you'd need:
Blacksmith (warrior/fighter with craft skills), Magic Shop Owner (Wizard, doubling to identify items), Potion Dealer (PF Alchemist is great, but Adept is also okay), Guard Captain (most likely Fighter), 2-3 bar owners (Expert), maybe a bard.

I play under 3 DMs. One DM stats out every major NPC in every city. He often lacks the talent to improvise however. Another has no stats for his unimportant NPCs, the third one stats out only the really important NPCs (namely the guys in the group's own castle).

I can see the approach of all the guys but tbh I am quite lazy and would only stat out boring shopkeeps if it's really necessary. After all, they're nothing to fight but to sell loot to get quests and so on. If the heroes decide to kill the shopkeep and get his items I let him scream and sack half the town's worth of guards onto him.

maniacalmojo
2014-01-21, 06:35 AM
there are also random NPC generators online that can help. Mythwevers has a decent one.

lytokk
2014-01-21, 08:38 AM
Currently I have in my game, a dwarf level 8 cleric/2 artificier dwarf who serves as the cities most skilled blacksmith. Retired from adventuring but still serving Moradin by manning the forge. PC's seem to like him, and the only reason I statted him out completely is just in case the PC's have some special order they want and I needed to know if he could and how long it would take to make it.

CTrees
2014-01-21, 09:44 AM
For my Pathfinder game, the NPC Codex has been a great help. Any NPC that needs to be fleshed out in a hurry has a "close enough" stat block already written. Oh, they suddenly decided the village blacksmith was a fascinating character? Well, let's just turn to the Expert section and find something appealing...

My players recently spent quite a long time in a region where the only non-hostile settlement within two-hundred miles was 99% centaurs, and consequently they spent a lot of time there. Naturally some NPCs would definitely need proper stat blocks. I basically looked at the centuar stats and created a centaur simple template (+X to these numbers, -Y to those, remove any racial abilities from the premade statblocks, add in the centaur specific ones). Combined with the NPC Codex, I instantly had stats for everyone in town, just in case. Ended up mostly being used for social skills, but they came very close to both fights and recruitment, where the rest of the stats would have been necessary.

Jeff the Green
2014-01-21, 10:04 AM
I think it depends on how you think your players will interact with them. The average non-combatant probably needs their Charisma, Wisdom, and whether they're trained in Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, and Spot. NPC knowledge usually isn't rolled but determined by background and plot, and most NPCs' combat stats are "if you hit him, he's dead." Town guards, while they might have distinct personalities, roles, and skillsets, can often share the same basic stat block. Your average guild wizard may only need his level, spell book contents, and Intelligence, while a crafting wizard will additionally need crafting feats.

On the other hand, sometimes there are NPCs that need full character sheets. In my Ravenloft game the players have dragooned two NPCs into tagging along on their quests, and so I need most of their stats on occasion.

Nettlekid
2014-01-21, 11:22 AM
Hm, these suggestions aren't really what I'm looking for. I'm not interested in any of the default DMG NPC classes like Adept, Expert, Warrior, etc, because all those boil down to is a few numbers to skills and maybe a spell cast or two. I don't have to actually plan a character like that, I can just estimate a fair skill bonus if I need to, or say "Yeah you find a guy who can cast that spell" if the players are looking for that. Similarly, any NPC generator or "choose from this list of NPCs" is too bland and impersonal, because it would suit any situation. Those suggestions would be great for filling in the other 98% of the population if it needs filling with kind of un-special NPCs, but I'm looking for suggestions for the special ones. I know that most town guards can be the same statblock, and I plan to use that for generic guards. But what about the head of the guard who is somehow more special than just having four more levels of Warrior than the other guys?


Currently I have in my game, a dwarf level 8 cleric/2 artificier dwarf who serves as the cities most skilled blacksmith. Retired from adventuring but still serving Moradin by manning the forge. PC's seem to like him, and the only reason I statted him out completely is just in case the PC's have some special order they want and I needed to know if he could and how long it would take to make it.

This is the closest thing to being in the realm of what I'm trying to find, but it's still off because I'd prefer to find a PrC that a PC wouldn't use due to being unoptimized, but is designed as an NPC PrC, so to speak. Not officially so, but like anyone building a character wouldn't use it because it offers too circumstantial abilities that a PC wouldn't use on a regular basis, but if an NPC had these abilities and the PCs called on this NPC then they'd be put to use.

I'm trying to think of more PrCs that fit the feeling I'm looking for. I already mentioned Bloodhound, Gray Guard, Battlesmith, Ironsoul Forgemaster, Wayfarer Guide, and I could add perhaps Alchemist Savant (though it's a bit strong), Urban Soul...I can't think of any more, and even now I'm starting to deviate from what feels perfect.

Basically, can anyone think of Prestige Classes that they've thought or heard in a handbook somewhere "This would be good for NPCs, but as a player character pass it up"? I would like to flesh out my NPCs with those kinds of classes.

Vedhin
2014-01-21, 11:30 AM
This is the closest thing to being in the realm of what I'm trying to find, but it's still off because I'd prefer to find a PrC that a PC wouldn't use due to being unoptimized, but is designed as an NPC PrC, so to speak. Not officially so, but like anyone building a character wouldn't use it because it offers too circumstantial abilities that a PC wouldn't use on a regular basis, but if an NPC had these abilities and the PCs called on this NPC then they'd be put to use.

I'm trying to think of more PrCs that fit the feeling I'm looking for. I already mentioned Bloodhound, Gray Guard, Battlesmith, Ironsoul Forgemaster, Wayfarer Guide, and I could add perhaps Alchemist Savant (though it's a bit strong), Urban Soul...I can't think of any more, and even now I'm starting to deviate from what feels perfect.

Basically, can anyone think of Prestige Classes that they've thought or heard in a handbook somewhere "This would be good for NPCs, but as a player character pass it up"? I would like to flesh out my NPCs with those kinds of classes.

Try Master Alchemist from Magic of Faerun. 10 level PrC dedicated to making potions of higher level spells.
I've never got the chance to try a (slightly houseruled to actually work) Artificer 5/Alchemist Savant 5/Master Alchemist 10. That could make all sorts of alchemical items and high level potions, as well as spellvials (offensive potions).

Maginomicon
2014-01-21, 12:21 PM
I created a procedurally-generated spreadsheet that calculates the number of shops and people for a given community size (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AojdoKCdOXqNdE0zNnd0SDF6aGNIR1JJOWJoeE9Vc Gc&single=true&gid=0&output=html). It might be useful to you for the purposes of determining how many of the relevant kinds of people you might need to stat out (or stat out as templates).

Personally, I create multiple versions (2~3) of the same character at different points in his leveling progression and use them as templates. The more advanced ones are the managers in a given profession and the less-experienced ones are the underlings in that profession.

Nettlekid
2014-01-21, 04:06 PM
I created a procedurally-generated spreadsheet that calculates the number of shops and people for a given community size (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AojdoKCdOXqNdE0zNnd0SDF6aGNIR1JJOWJoeE9Vc Gc&single=true&gid=0&output=html). It might be useful to you for the purposes of determining how many of the relevant kinds of people you might need to stat out (or stat out as templates).

Personally, I create multiple versions (2~3) of the same character at different points in his leveling progression and use them as templates. The more advanced ones are the managers in a given profession and the less-experienced ones are the underlings in that profession.

Ah, this looks like a pretty good resource. Now to think of classes that do the specific jobs here well, and little else.

Nettlekid
2014-01-22, 08:45 PM
Okay, so I've statted out a Warforged Artificer 11 as an exceptionally skilled magic item maker and appraiser, a Dwarf Fighter 1/Incarnate 5/Ironsoul Forgemaster 6 as a specialized blacksmith, a Halfling Cleric 7/Master Alchemist 4 as a master chef and alchemy/potions expert (using soup as potions), and a Hellbred Paladin 5/Grey Guard 10 as a ferocious police chief. I don't expect these NPCs to come up often, if at all, but I like how at low levels they'll seem like utterly amazing figures to the PCs, then the PCs will be about equal with them in time, and much later the PCs will be much stronger than these guys but they'll still be able to do things the PCs can't do (like the chef making Potions of Heal or Potions of Harm). Hopefully the PCs will like these guys.

The last one I'd like to think of is some expert merchant. A pennypinching trader who has connections and has a means to get items or information that the PCs are looking for. I can't find any good classes for it. Both Goldeye and Merchant Prince have good flavor, but I don't think it should be a casting class (so that's Goldeye out) and Merchant Prince basically gives you NOTHING, so it's boring. Any suggestions?

Bullet06320
2014-01-23, 03:31 AM
the legend&lairs book darkness and dread has sum decent npc classes that can give u some ideas to work with

I recall a forgotten realms novel, not sure which one off the top of my head, the main character was a rogue that made magical ropes of different kinds for the thieves guild he was in. ive that idea for an npc that ran a small shop selling various types of ropes

there was another novel had an npc that was a butcher, always had his trusty cleaver as a weapon, and small bag of special spices so he could always flavor the meal, no mater the meat

you could always team up different npcs, say sweeny todd style, one that kills people and a baker that makes meat pies, that works for plot too, lol

a merchant that doubles as a fence who also happens to be a drug addict and is forced to fence goods for the local thieves guild to get his fix

the son of the blacksmith that really wants to be a bard instead of smith, always goofing off trying to write songs instead of working at the forge

shopkeeper also collects coins from other realms, always asking the pc when they in town if they have any interesting coins for sale

gemcutter with an oral fixation, always sucking on the gems, even infront of customers, lol